China All Su-35 news

[Beast]

Even the Russia official dont want to talk about the deal. What is there to talk abt?

 

[qwerrty]

Even the Russia official dont want to talk about the deal. What is there to talk abt?

it thought the deal signed gazillion times already given the number of threads posted here by indians. now, that official guy seems like he's not even sure..

 

[cnleio]

Waste of money, there is no fcking way that we would buy it if it costs $100 million each.

LOL, still better than J-11B and J-10A. Su-35 is a good fighter.

 

[Globenim]

Don't we already have enough SU-35? I mean we allegedly keep buying and signing these deals about twice every month for entire batches of SU-35 since 2011.

 

[PRC2025]

PARIS, June 17 (Itar-Tass) - Russia will supply a series of new multirole fights, Su-35, to China in compliance with a contract, which should be prepared by the yearend, an official of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told Itar-Tass on Monday.

Russia’s delegation takes part in the Paris Air Show, Le Bourget 2013.

“A decision to supply the Su-35 fighters to China was taken long ago. The parties work hard to coordinate financial and technical conditions of the future contract, which is due to be prepared by the yearend. At present, the details of the contract are being specified. Upcoming supplies of the Su-35 fighters to China are ‘an open secret’. It is not clear yet what none talks about it in public,” the official said.

The Federal Service declined to comment on Russian possible supplies of fighters to China. “I don’t want to talk about it,” director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Alexander Fomin told Itar-Tass.

My reply:

I think this time that the rumor is true and that this deal is real. After all, they both want to agree on details, which I think they are working on right now. There is no doubt this time that the deal most likely is real, but they need to work out details by the end of this year, thus they don't want to talk about something which is "not ready" yet, but it soon will be.

I think is good that China buys 24 Su-35, it would be good for PLAAF and it would be good for the strategic partnership and alliance between Russia and China, especially through SCO. It would also signal that Russia has no problem with selling one of the best weapons they have, so that's good.

I know it has also been some talk about 4 Lada/Amur-class SSK, and if that's true, it would be even better.

I really don't understand some of the unwillingness among some members in this thread regarding this deal.

I know that J-15 and J-16 are also very good, and that Improved Kilos, Song, Yuan/Improved Yuan-class etc are also great, but that's not the point.

We need to look at the other way around, and not talk about thing China has that is comparable to what Su-35 and Lada-class is. The key point here is that PLAAF and PLAN are still flying ancient J-7 and J-8 fighters and ancient Ming-class SSK are still in service. They need to go out of service, like NOW, lol
And I definitely don't mind replacing 150 J-7 with 24 Su-35, and I don't mind seing 10 Ming-class going straight to garbage, and being replaced by 4 Lada-class. Heck, I would even be happy with another 4 Improved Kilo-class.

So I am at least very happy if the deal turns out to be true, which it finally seems that it is, it starts to make more sence and Su-35 has also started to serve in the RuAF, which was not the case before, so it gives one opportunity to see it in "action", and not just in theory.

 

[shuttler]

@PRC2025

Good post!

Do you have an idea how much is each of the Su-35 and the Lada/Amur-class SSK costing us?

 

[PRC2025]

@PRC2025

Good post!

Do you have an idea how much is each of the Su-35 and the Lada/Amur-class SSK costing us?

Thanks! I am sure they are negotiating about the price, since that is one of the most fundamental parts of a deal of course. So I won't speculate what it is going to cost, but I am sure they will agree as they said by this year's end. China has a lot of cash, and should buy this.

Each time I see a fine Chinese pilot in a J-7, I just wanna throw up. The same goes for J-8. This is not kind of fighters China should be flying in 2013 or 2014 or onwards.

Seeing also Ming-class SSK in service does basically makes me physically ill.

So we should not complain at all having Su-35 or Amur-class SSK coming our way. After all, PLAAF and PLAN deserve the best, and I don't think we need to discuss what is better between J7/J8 on one side and Su-35 on the other side.

It would be like complaining if Russia was to sell us T-90 MBT. Sure we have T-99 and T-96 upgrades which are among top 12 in the world, but still most of MBTs are T-59. So once again, no need to discuss what is better between T-59 and T-90, lol.

 

[shuttler]

Thanks! I am sure they are negotiating about the price, since that is one of the most fundamental parts of a deal of course. So I won't speculate what it is going to cost, but I am sure they will agree as they said by this year's end. China has a lot of cash, and should buy this.

Each time I see a fine Chinese pilot in a J-7, I just wanna throw up. The same goes for J-8. This is not kind of fighters China should be flying in 2013 or 2014 or onwards.

Seeing also Ming-class SSK in service does basically makes me physically ill.

So we should not complain at all having Su-35 or Amur-class SSK coming our way. After all, PLAAF and PLAN deserve the best, and I don't think we need to discuss what is better between J7/J8 on one side and Su-35 on the other side.

It would be like complaining if Russia was to sell us T-90 MBT. Sure we have T-99 and T-96 upgrades which are among top 12 in the world, but still most of MBTs are T-59. So once again, no need to discuss what is better between T-59 and T-90, lol.

All the older versions of jet fighters or subs are not competent for modern war fare if conflict with the level of the Japanese or @ SCS escalate into wars! But upgraded J-7 or J-8 or subs are still good for exports which provide affordable fit for the requirement of our customers.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL, still better than J-11B and J-10A. Su-35 is a good fighter.

Are you sure it is better than J-11B?

The J-11B has AESA radar compared to the PESA radar of Su-35.

 

[PRC2025]

But upgraded J-7 or J-8 or subs are still good for exports which provide affordable fit for the requirement of our customers.

Of course, upgraded J-7 and J-8 for some of our allies are good, because they "fit their security profile", or "strategy" if you will. But they don't need to worry about if they will meet Japanese or U.S. Navy, and China's ambition is to be the best. When you soon have the world's biggest economy, you soon normally would like to have world's biggest defence budget too in PPP terms, thus China's ambition is to be the best, because that's the potential of China, and no one else has this potential right now, which is to become the biggest economy and the biggest defence spender, beside China and the U.S.

U.S. is also selling downgraded M60 tanks and downgraded M1-Abrams, and also downgraded F-16s, etc. U.S. is also selling old Oliver-class frigates as we speak, so they match requirements of those customers, but those customers know that they cannot be a "global player" anyway, and in order to be truly a global player, two things need to be there, potential for being worlds largest economy, which automatically will bring in the potential for being worlds largest defence spender.

It is not a coincidence that U.S. and China are the largest economies, and both are top 2 defence spenders as well. This goes hand-in-hand.

 

[shuttler]

Of course, upgraded J-7 and J-8 for some of our allies are good, because they "fit their security profile", or "strategy" if you will. But they don't need to worry about if they will meet Japanese or U.S. Navy, and China's ambition is to be the best. When you soon have the world's biggest economy, you soon normally would like to have world's biggest defence budget too in PPP terms, thus China's ambition is to be the best, because that's the potential of China, and no one else has this potential right now, which is to become the biggest economy and the biggest defence spender, beside China and the U.S.

U.S. is also selling downgraded M60 tanks and downgraded M1-Abrams, and also downgraded F-16s, etc. U.S. is also selling old Oliver-class frigates as we speak, so they match requirements of those customers, but those customers know that they cannot be a "global player" anyway, and in order to be truly a global player, two things need to be there, potential for being worlds largest economy, which automatically will bring in the potential for being worlds largest defence spender.

It is not a coincidence that U.S. and China are the largest economies, and both are top 2 defence spenders as well. This goes hand-in-hand.

we have to be the best because our enemies are having the best

thank you for agreeing to my statement on j-7, j-8, ming subs etc they still have export potentials. dont trash them!

 

[cnleio]

Are you sure it is better than J-11B?
The J-11B has AESA radar compared to the PESA radar of Su-35.

No pic and talks J8 ... Show me J-11B's AESA radar ?

 

[PRC2025]

we have to be the best because our enemies are having the best

thank you for agreeing to my statement on j-7, j-8, ming subs etc they still have export potentials. dont trash them!

For export yes, we agree, I trashed them being good enough against U.S battle fleets. So for that, PLAAF/PLAN need the best they can get.

As I mentioned, U.S is selling a lot of older or downgraded stuff, because that's what their customers or allies need, but those customers are not planning meeting China or the U.S. on the battlefield either, so those things are good enough for their requirements if you know what I mean.

 

[Beast]

Each time I see a fine Chinese pilot in a J-7, I just wanna throw up. The same goes for J-8. This is not kind of fighters China should be flying in 2013 or 2014 or onwards.

J-7 is more or less relieve duty of fighter role. It basically only serves as advance fighter trainer for fighter pilot conversion course.

As for J-8II, its not as bad as you mention. It has a decent payload and is a huge plane able to carry plenty of fuel. With refuelling pod, it can extend its range significantly. It is first Multi role fighter jet in PLAAF , able to fire PL-12 BVRAAM, YJ-91 ASM and drop LS-6 glided bomb. It has a decent size radome to house a big, powerful radar. I believe, J-8 will still serve in front-line in another 10 years time.

Seeing also Ming-class SSK in service does basically makes me physically ill.

Most of the old ming build in the 70s are relegate to training vessel only, they are some upgraded Ming build in the 90s which will still prove a threat to those South _east asia countries who hardly own any submarines.

It would be like complaining if Russia was to sell us T-90 MBT. Sure we have T-99 and T-96 upgrades which are among top 12 in the world, but still most of MBTs are T-59. So once again, no need to discuss what is better between T-59 and T-90, lol.

Most of the Type-59 tank are serving in the southern region of China which faces only South east asia countries. The land are soft and not suitable for a 50 tons MBT to operate around.

You can be very sure, the Type-99 MBT are facing the northern side against.

 

[PRC2025]

J-7 is more or less relieve duty of fighter role. It basically only serves as advance fighter trainer for fighter pilot conversion course.
As for J-8II, its not as bad as you mention. It has a decent payload and is a huge plane able to carry plenty of fuel. With refuelling pod, it can extend its range significantly. It is first Multi role fighter jet in PLAAF , able to fire PL-12 BVRAAM, YJ-91 ASM and drop LS-6 glided bomb. It has a decent size radome to house a big, powerful radar. I believe, J-8 will still serve in front-line in another 10 years time.

Most of the old ming build in the 70s are relegate to training vessel only, they are some upgraded Ming build in the 90s which will still prove a threat to those South _east asia countries who hardly own any submarines.

Most of the Type-59 tank are serving in the southern region of China which faces only South east asia countries. The land are soft and not suitable for a 50 tons MBT to operate around.

You can be very sure, the Type-99 MBT are facing the northern side against.

I am sure J-8II can perform something, but between that and Su-35, I'll take Su-35 any day, and I'll rather see 24 Su-35 in service, replacing 48 J-8II in service.

Besides, China has only a small number of J-8II, thus the whole J-8 fleet is not good enough for modern warfare. When I count PLAAF fighters, I never count J-7 or J-8. I start from Su-27 and onwards, lol. So even though J-8II might be good, it is a small numbers compared to a total number of J-8 in service.

So we agree (more or less), you could keep some J-8II in service, but there is no doubt that a huge majority of J-8 shouldn't be counted on for modern warfare.
So if PLAAF is using 1 RMB on those early J-8 versions, it is in my opinion, total waste of money.

I hope you are right regarding J-7 role. Still, China should produce more advanced trainers along the level of Yak-130, which Russians have. So either way, J-7 should prepare to go to grave yard.

There are no SE countries besides The Phillippines and Vietnam that China has issues with. While "Improved Ming" might deter the crazy ones in Manila, it will not be able to deter Vietnamese Improved Kilo-class subs they are about to receive from Russia.

So basically, keeping Ming-class in service, just because of The Phillippines would be very strange.

Taiwan is angry at the Philippines with a good reason, and Taipei did send their best ship they got, La Fayette light frigate against the Philippines.

So Ming-class should not stay in service just because of the Philippines.

And finally, while T-59 is facing "South East" countries; I think you once again refer to Vietnam because there are no other unfriendly nations there (Myanmar and Laos and Cambodia and Thailand are good friends with China), so I don't think that huge number of T-59s in service is justifiable. China should rather produce more IFV,APC, and other light tanks or armoured vehichles with ATGMs, etc.