China All Su-35 news

[Beast]

I am sure J-8II can perform something, but between that and Su-35, I'll take Su-35 any day, and I'll rather see 24 Su-35 in service, replacing 48 J-8II in service.

Nobody question Su-35 between J-8II but trying to dismiss J-8II as hopeless is dangerous. I will take 64 J-8II vs 24 Su-35 anyday. J-8II that carry domestic PL-12 BVRAAM is potent. Su35 can only fires R-77. If R-77 is such wonder missile. Why PLAAF develops a BVRAAM totally different from R-77(Aerodynamic) which they are familiar with when received from Russia together with Su-30MKK?? Plus Su-35 is not able to datalink with domestic AWACS while J-8II can.

Besides, China has only a small number of J-8II, thus the whole J-8 fleet is not good enough for modern warfare. When I count PLAAF fighters, I never count J-7 or J-8. I start from Su-27 and onwards, lol. So even though J-8II might be good, it is a small numbers compared to a total number of J-8 in service.

So we agree (more or less), you could keep some J-8II in service, but there is no doubt that a huge majority of J-8 shouldn't be counted on for modern warfare.
So if PLAAF is using 1 RMB on those early J-8 versions, it is in my opinion, total waste of money.

They are estimate more than 240 J-8II in service. Not small number. All J-8I retired but J-8II are still highly value by PLAAF. Check out the how many type of ammunition J-8II can fired. It can be deadly.

I hope you are right regarding J-7 role. Still, China should produce more advanced trainers along the level of Yak-130, which Russians have. So either way, J-7 should prepare to go to grave yard.

L-15 is already on mass production and will enter service this year end.

There are no SE countries besides The Phillippines and Vietnam that China has issues with. While "Improved Ming" might deter the crazy ones in Manila, it will not be able to deter Vietnamese Improved Kilo-class subs they are about to receive from Russia.

So basically, keeping Ming-class in service, just because of The Phillippines would be very strange.

Taiwan is angry at the Philippines with a good reason, and Taipei did send their best ship they got, La Fayette light frigate against the Philippines.

So Ming-class should not stay in service just because of the Philippines.

And finally, while T-59 is facing "South East" countries; I think you once again refer to Vietnam because there are no other unfriendly nations there (Myanmar and Laos and Cambodia and Thailand are good friends with China), so I don't think that huge number of T-59s in service is justifiable. China should rather produce more IFV,APC, and other light tanks or armoured vehichles with ATGMs, etc.

PLA is currently doing very well in managin its financial and resources. They will not repeat the same mistake of US armed forces of giving the best and overspend the country money. You sure do not want China to end up with mountains of debt like USA, right?

 

[shuttler]

For export yes, we agree, I trashed them being good enough against U.S battle fleets. So for that, PLAAF/PLAN need the best they can get.

As I mentioned, U.S is selling a lot of older or downgraded stuff, because that's what their customers or allies need, but those customers are not planning meeting China or the U.S. on the battlefield either, so those things are good enough for their requirements if you know what I mean.

okay! many countries are still interested in buying upgraded versions of our weapons which have proved their worth!

 

[PRC2025]

Nobody question Su-35 between J-8II but trying to dismiss J-8II as hopeless is dangerous. I will take 64 J-8II vs 24 Su-35 anyday. J-8II that carry domestic PL-12 BVRAAM is potent. Su35 can only fires R-77. If R-77 is such wonder missile. Why PLAAF develops a BVRAAM totally different from R-77(Aerodynamic) which they are familiar with when received from Russia together with Su-30MKK?? Plus Su-35 is not able to datalink with domestic AWACS while J-8II can.

They are estimate more than 240 J-8II in service. Not small number. All J-8I retired but J-8II are still highly value by PLAAF. Check out the how many type of ammunition J-8II can fired. It can be deadly.

PLA is currently doing very well in managin its financial and resources. They will not repeat the same mistake of US armed forces of giving the best and overspend the country money. You sure do not want China to end up with mountains of debt like USA, right?

R-77M1 is planned for Su-35, which might have up to 160 KM range. PL-12 is very potent, no doubt, but I am more excited about PL-21 which is still in development. I am no expert on AWACS, but are you saying that Russian-imported Su-27, Su-30s in PLAAF cannot send datalink to Chinese AWACS?

First J-8II series came out around 1984, so they are OLD, big time. It depends on which J-8II variant are we talking about. So how many J-8II variants does PLAAF have that were built during 1990s and up to today?

This is what I found on IISS from 2010:

24 J-8, 60 J-8A, 108 J-8B, 36 J-8D, 12 J-8E, 24 J-8F, 48 J-8H, 24 JZ-8, 24 JZ-8F in service in 2010.

So a huge number of them is J-8A and J-8B which is rather getting old. Total of 168. Having another 24 J-8 are even older. That's 192 in total.

The U.S. mistake was not the spending. The U.S. mistake is doing expencive warfare. They have spent 4 trillion USD on destroying countries since October 2001. That's 4 trillion USD that has nothing to do with defence budget, it's pure waste for warfare and maintenance because of the warfare, damages, pensions, disabilities for wounded soldiers, etc.

So I never said we should replace 192 J-8 with 192 Su-35. Point is, 192 J-8 and over 300 J-7 need to go away ASAP, and lets introduce 24 Su-35.

The same goes for Ming-class in regards to 4 Amur-class. Take away those 19? Mings, and spend money on 4 Amur-class. Same with thousands of old T-59. Take them out and spend what you have of that amount to build for example 1.500 - 2.000 modern IFV, APC, ArmVeh with ATGMs.

 

[That Guy]

Of course he has everything in his mind to say it but it sounds ridiculous, and so are you

You are saying as if a guy's walking into a bank and you tell the banker to inform the police for robbery

Actually, that's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, that example makes no sense at all. The bank is not a place for discussion, unless they're hosting some sort of discussion panel, but this is.

The twin 117S engines will be too large to fit into our J-31, which is now waiting for the twin medium thrust WS-13A engines.

Furthermore, the 117S engine derived from the AL-31F engine, it has not bloodline connection with our WS-10 engine, it is useless for us to reverse engineering these engines over again.

Our WS-10 engine is on the way of maturization, and the WS-15 engine is up to test, i don't think we need to copy any Russian engine, we do need the Russian engine serves as a back up when some of our engines are ready for mass production.

Re-read my comments, nowhere did I say that China was going to copy the engine, in fact, I said the exact opposite.

China isn't looking to copy the Russia, rather, they want to learn from them. Quite frankly, why should that be considered a bad thing? Nor do I feel that it is. The engine will help give them a reference to building advanced engines in the future, it's quite smart.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Actually, that's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, that example makes no sense at all. The bank is not a place for discussion, unless they're hosting some sort of discussion panel, but this is.



Re-read my comments, nowhere did I say that China was going to copy the engine, in fact, I said the exact opposite.

China isn't looking to copy the Russia, rather, they want to learn from them. Quite frankly, why should that be considered a bad thing? Nor do I feel that it is. The engine will help give them a reference to building advanced engines in the future, it's quite smart.

Learn some strong points from Russia, that's it, everybody will do that.

But some people make it sounds that all Chinese aircrafts will be grounded if Russia stops the engine supply, this argument is simply ridiculous.

 

[That Guy]

Learn some strong points from Russia, that's it, everybody will do that.

But some people make it sounds that all Chinese aircrafts will be grounded if Russia stops the engine supply, this argument is simply ridiculous.

Of course it's ridicules, but I'm not making such an argument, now am I? The Chinese just don't want to spend dozens of more years researching the necessary steps to create high quality and high performance engines, and taking a look at the engines will help China to decrease the time it needs to do just that. They're not looking to copy, but to implement what they learn from the Russian engines into their own domestic ones.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

China's interest is in engine and irbis PESA radar.
For now china has no credible engine to power j-20.Without TVC,supercruise or good thrust it won't be true fifth gen fighter.And russia is reluctant to give them anything beyond al-31f.
They can't copy it directly as for engines thats proven near impossible.Radar will be of interest but i'm guessing russian will supply downgraded avionics without source codes.
Still if this report is true its bad news for india as Su-35BM gives PLAAF qualitative superiority over IAF,until super-sukhoi or rfale can be inducted.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China's interest is in engine and irbis PESA radar.
For now china has no credible engine to power j-20.Without TVC,supercruise or good thrust it won't be true fifth gen fighter.And russia is reluctant to give them anything beyond al-31f.
They can't copy it directly as for engines thats proven near impossible.Radar will be of interest but i'm guessing russian will supply downgraded avionics without source codes.
Still if this report is true its bad news for india as Su-35BM gives PLAAF qualitative superiority over IAF,until super-sukhoi or rfale can be inducted.

Nah, if we ever purchase the Su-35 aircrafts, then the only reason will be to help Russia to boast their military export, since Russia is desperate to sell their Su-35 with any pre-condition.

Rosoboronexport offers Su-35 fighters and technology transfer to Brazil outside the framework of a tender - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

 

[cnleio]

Are you sure it is better than J-11B?

The J-11B has AESA radar compared to the PESA radar of Su-35.

Hmmmm... don't let me wait too long. U need to provide something to prove it, for example like this J-11B. Is that AESA radar ? blurred image

 

[Beast]

No, that's a Russian Zhuk radar.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hmmmm... don't let me wait too long. U need to provide something to prove it, for example like this J-11B. Is that AESA radar ? blurred image

 

[cnleio]

LOL, that's just a introduction we still didn't see the real AESA radar, right ?

 

[Dron.ru]

SU-35C on Le Bourget 2013

Opinion of Chinese experts:

• On chinese
• On russian

 

[rcrmj]

China's interest is in engine and irbis PESA radar.
For now china has no credible engine to power j-20.Without TVC,supercruise or good thrust it won't be true fifth gen fighter.And russia is reluctant to give them anything beyond al-31f.
They can't copy it directly as for engines thats proven near impossible.Radar will be of interest but i'm guessing russian will supply downgraded avionics without source codes.
Still if this report is true its bad news for india as Su-35BM gives PLAAF qualitative superiority over IAF,until super-sukhoi or rfale can be inducted.

radar is utter nonsense, at this point Russian does not have any capable serving air-born and sea-born AESA radars, but tpye052C/D and AWACs-2000/200 in PLAF nd PLAN are equipping not only the first but second and third generation AESA radars in numbers```people who working closely with Russians from SAC and CAC confidently said that china now is actually years ahead of Russia in terms of electronic, computing and radars``

engine is the only thing that we are far behind the U.S, but those people don't give much praise to Russian engines though``thats why Chinese engine's development are going with western standards, and almost has nothing to do with russians``

its very obvious to find this out,
engines for JH-7A/B are of British origine
and WS-10 and WS-15 are very close to Americans

China's interest is in engine and irbis PESA radar.
For now china has no credible engine to power j-20.Without TVC,supercruise or good thrust it won't be true fifth gen fighter.And russia is reluctant to give them anything beyond al-31f.
They can't copy it directly as for engines thats proven near impossible.Radar will be of interest but i'm guessing russian will supply downgraded avionics without source codes.
Still if this report is true its bad news for india as Su-35BM gives PLAAF qualitative superiority over IAF,until super-sukhoi or rfale can be inducted.

radar is utter nonsense, at this point Russian does not have any capable serving air-born and sea-born AESA radars, but tpye052C/D and AWACs-2000/200 in PLAF nd PLAN are equipping not only the first but second and third generation AESA radars in numbers```people who working closely with Russians from SAC and CAC confidently said that china now is actually years ahead of Russia in terms of electronic, computing and radars``

engine is the only thing that we are far behind the U.S, but those people don't give much praise to Russian engines though``thats why Chinese engine's development are going with western standards, and almost has nothing to do with russians``

its very obvious to find this out,
engines for JH-7A/B are of British origine
and WS-10 and WS-15 are very close to Americans

China's interest is in engine and irbis PESA radar.
For now china has no credible engine to power j-20.Without TVC,supercruise or good thrust it won't be true fifth gen fighter.And russia is reluctant to give them anything beyond al-31f.
They can't copy it directly as for engines thats proven near impossible.Radar will be of interest but i'm guessing russian will supply downgraded avionics without source codes.
Still if this report is true its bad news for india as Su-35BM gives PLAAF qualitative superiority over IAF,until super-sukhoi or rfale can be inducted.

radar is utter nonsense, at this point Russian does not have any capable serving air-born and sea-born AESA radars, but tpye052C/D and AWACs-2000/200 in PLAF nd PLAN are equipping not only the first but second and third generation AESA radars in numbers```people who working closely with Russians from SAC and CAC confidently said that china now is actually years ahead of Russia in terms of electronic, computing and radars``

engine is the only thing that we are far behind the U.S, but those people don't give much praise to Russian engines though``thats why Chinese engine's development are going with western standards, and almost has nothing to do with russians``

its very obvious to find this out,
engines for JH-7A/B are of British origine
and WS-10 and WS-15 are very close to Americans

 

[zzzz]

radar is utter nonsense, at this point Russian does not have any capable serving air-born and sea-born AESA radars, but tpye052C/D and AWACs-2000/200 in PLAF nd PLAN are equipping not only the first but second and third generation AESA radars in numbers```people who working closely with Russians from SAC and CAC confidently said that china now is actually years ahead of Russia in terms of electronic, computing and radars``

Pak-FA is flying with 1500 t/r modules AESA. Wheres is Chinese equivalent? Not even photochops?