China All Su-35 news

[Deino]

Here's a reasonable summary I found at the CDF (by SARguy):

I was chatting with my friend at his GSI office when the news broke (MoD confirmation of the Su-35-deal). He smiled and said there is definite smell from the Sovremenny deal over two decades ago. Time would tell what are included (or not included) in the fine prints. For the moment, I think Sukhoi badly needs the contract, the business, the marketing effect and the hard cash. Russia would gain from diplomatic and strategic fronts for having China continues to be a major customer of its military equipment. As for us, 24 frames won't do anything to alter our existing defense posture. The purchase would deepen the defense cooperation of the two giants which carries the implied reality of de facto alliance The contract would serve to enhance and reinforce the overall bilateral relationship and give addition meaning to the much advertised " Sino-Russia Comprehensive Strategic Collaborative Partnership". For mere 2 billion dollars, give or take, in exchange for win/win is good business, big BANG for the buck for both countries.

Deino

 

[Pomegranate]

You can laugh whatever you want. Come back here in another 2 years time in this thread and you can stop laughing.

Sir i am not laughing on you but on him .... i loved Your answer ... dont get me wrong here ..........

 

[Shotgunner51]

Here's a reasonable summary I found at the CDF (by SARguy):


Deino

Yes that summary does sound reasonable. The 24 jets deal is only like rounding error for China's annual imports (over $1.689 trillion), a true big BANG for buck for both nations!

China 2015 Trade Surplus Reaches $594.5 Billions

 

[Oldman1]

You simply again failed to read my previou post. Russian now will not deal directly with PA on major weapon sales.

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar raises Pakistan question in Russia, shares concerns on arms sales
While the Indian military establishment does not consider the recent sale of four Russian Mi-35 attack choppers to Pakistan as having major security implications, it has been a landmark deal because it was the first combat platform Russia sold to the country.

Larger concerns revolve around reports that Pakistan is in talks to acquire the Su-35 fighter aircraft — a high-end combat platform that is more capable than the India's Su-30 MKI fleet, sources said. Though Moscow has denied that it is close to signing an agreement on the fighters, it is believed that a formal request of interest has been sent by Pakistan — the first step in a military purchase project with Russia.

Source: DEFENCE MINISTER MANOHAR PARRIKAR RAISES PAKISTAN QUESTION IN RUSSIA, SHARES CONCERNS ON ARMS SALES

Remember how the sneaky Russia sell RD-93 engines to Pakistan right under India nose thru China as middleman. History will repeat itself. Russia will then claimed " You see, its all the Chinese fault. We have nothing to do with it! " India will then s*ck its thumb with such claims.

So you are saying Russia will never ever sell a major weapons system to Pakistan directly? Only through China?

 

[Dungeness]

So you are saying Russia will never ever sell a major weapons system to Pakistan directly? Only through China?

Apparently, that is NOT what he said. You may want to recheck your fact.

 

[Blue Marlin]

To admit even I for myself was long more than sceptical in regard to this deal, it is now a fact and the PLAAF will surely have its reasons even if we - or not all of us - undestand or like this.

Anyway, You are correct, the FTTC uses the MKK within the 172. Brigade as a "Blue Force" regiment. IMO this unit is the most likely unit to receive them in order to explore its capabilities and develop tactics for the own use of TVC.

Deino




Simply in a short sentence: prove it or shut up !

It's indeed a common habbit from You to never give any source ... if You don't want to give or the post fits Your opinion, but You always want and demand an official source if the argument does not fit Your opinion. Otherwise You call other stupid or accuse them to lack a certain understanding ...

Sorry I'm already eager to simply give You a break in order to reconsider Your way of posting. Either You should use the same standard for both Your posts and others with or without a quote or You should admit that these things are Your ideas, that You found them on the net ... but do not tell them as a fact and bash others.

Again. If Russia needs cash and Pakistan could semm these bbirds ... why not directly from Sukhio, why such a political-sensitive plot via China. It does not makes any sense.

Deino

good lord are you guys doing this again!?
WHY?
I think pakistan will introduce the j31 as its new 5th gen fighter and would serve in the naval avation branch too as it hasss good range and is capable of holding asm's . can the j31 hold asm's internally?

 

[Beast]

good lord are you guys doing this again!?
WHY?
I think pakistan will introduce the j31 as its new 5th gen fighter and would serve in the naval avation branch too as it hasss good range and is capable of holding asm's . can the j31 hold asm's internally?

Su-35 and J-31 are different roles of aircraft.

 

[Oldman1]

Apparently, that is NOT what he said. You may want to recheck your fact.

This is what he implies right here.

You simply again failed to read my previou post. Russian now will not deal directly with PA on major weapon sales.-Beast

 

[帅的一匹]

Deino, you are a very tactical guy but you lack the political wisdom for discussion.

Su-35 for PAF thru China is a deal with blessing from Sino-Russia. China has verbal agree not to sell any of Russia lineage Su-27 aircraft like J-11B or J-16.

Russia still technically do not want to anger India with a major weapon sales to Pakistan. Transport helicopter Mi-17,obsolete attack gunship like Mi-35 and small weapons are technically not consider a major weapon to PA. But a most advance fighter in Russia service like Su-35 sold to Pakistan directly will cause a stir between India and Russia.

Russia needs hardcash and want China act as middleman for this Su-35 deal for PAF. Same as how RD-93 engine evolved. End of the day, Russia will shoved all problem to China which India cant do anything to her.

It's not gonna be possible man.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

last time I read such a news I got surprised cuz for a country like China, just 24 jets dont make any sense while Pakistan's Naval Arm was looking for exactly 2 squadrons or in other words 24 jets,
I wonder where these jets will eventually end up.

That is a pretty good observation as well as question, I must say?

In fact China only wanted 4 units initially but Russia refuse to sell unless China ordered at least 48.

Some detractors then straightaway alleged that China only wanted such a small number of them because they wanted to reverse engineer or copy it.

If one have been following Chinese aviation news and their advancement over the last 10~20 years and apply the same logic for the question you asked, you would laugh it off as well.

China is already producing the many improved variants of the Shenyang J11B which are in fact a smaller and lighter version of the basic SU-27 (In fact all the SU-30, 32, 24 are variant of the basic SU-27) and IMO the latest J-11D as well as the rumored electronic version may be or should be more advanced than the RuAF SU-35.

EXAMPLE: The J-16 have a 12 tons payload capability whiles the SU-30MKK2 can carry max. 8 tons.

There are at least 4 stealth aircraft programs inside China today and the J-20 is already started LRIP while Russia is still struggling to complete all their testing with their T-50 FGFA.

In view of all these, then what does China needs SU-35 for?

IMHO The Chinese “Golden Helmet” as well as their ACMI program, off course as predators against their jets.

Even the US Top Guns program has secretly acquired China F-7M as well Russian fighters for the job.

SO what is so surprising if China buys them for the same purpose? How did China obtain the Harrier for example as displayed in their Air Museum?

If China really needs these SU-35 fighters so badly to defend herself as suggested then they should have signed for it 5 years ago at the T&C of the Russian and the quantity should not be less than 200. The number which China agreed on when they signed for those SU-27 which incidentally had mostly either scrapped or retired. Russian made warplanes have very limited airframe lifespan.

Here is another observation, China has never voiced or raised any complaints about Russia sales of the Kilo to Vietnam. Most military enthusiasts like us knew the answer but it was the Russian Military that confirmed it when they revealed that Chinese warships could detect Russian Sub including the Kilo submarines during their exercises in the Mediterranean Sea.

China says its new JH-7 electronic fighter is able to shoot down stealth aircraft at medium range
August 13, 2015

The following is based on a translation of a report in Chinese media:

In its report, mil.news.sina.com.cn says that the new electronic variant of the JH-7 fighter/bomber is able to shoot down stealth aircraft at medium range.

The new JH-7 uses technology similar to the US EA-18G and is able to shoot down the US F-22 stealth fighter jet.

China has developed electronic equipment similar to that used on the US EA-18G.

As JH-7 can carry a heavy load, it is precisely the right warplane to carry such equipment.

Te report says that the JH-7 has a similar combat radius and speed to the J-10 and the J-11.

Some JH-7s and J-10s or J-11s can form a comprehensive combat group with JH-7 electronic fighters providing electronic interference.

That will enable J-10s or J-11s to avoid being attacked by stealth fighters.

In addition, due to the JH-7’s large loading capacity, The JH-7 can carry, in addition to the heavy electronic equipment, some anti-radiation and medium-range air-to-air missiles to shoot down stealth fighters it has detects.

Moreover, a JH-7 electronic fighter/bomber will to some extent be stealthy.

Through various modifications, a new variant JH-7B has been developed to be stealthy.

The new JH-7B is expected to be put into series production this year.

Will these birds be really flying in the next couple of years?

 

[Signalian]

China says its new JH-7 electronic fighter is able to shoot down stealth aircraft at medium range
August 13, 2015

The following is based on a translation of a report in Chinese media:

In its report, mil.news.sina.com.cn says that the new electronic variant of the JH-7 fighter/bomber is able to shoot down stealth aircraft at medium range.

The new JH-7 uses technology similar to the US EA-18G and is able to shoot down the US F-22 stealth fighter jet.

China has developed electronic equipment similar to that used on the US EA-18G.

As JH-7 can carry a heavy load, it is precisely the right warplane to carry such equipment.

Te report says that the JH-7 has a similar combat radius and speed to the J-10 and the J-11.

Some JH-7s and J-10s or J-11s can form a comprehensive combat group with JH-7 electronic fighters providing electronic interference.

That will enable J-10s or J-11s to avoid being attacked by stealth fighters.

In addition, due to the JH-7’s large loading capacity, The JH-7 can carry, in addition to the heavy electronic equipment, some anti-radiation and medium-range air-to-air missiles to shoot down stealth fighters it has detects.

Moreover, a JH-7 electronic fighter/bomber will to some extent be stealthy.

Through various modifications, a new variant JH-7B has been developed to be stealthy.

The new JH-7B is expected to be put into series production this year.

How many Low/High band jamming pods as well as detection pods and which SEAD missile?

 

[Akasa]

How many Low/High band jamming pods as well as detection pods and which SEAD missile?

The JH-7B has not actually entered production or service yet. The SEAD/EW roles will be taken up by the J-16D, which has integrated jamming receiver pods similar to the AN/ALQ218 as well as a new AESA radar with integrated jamming modes. It will likely carry the CM-102, LD-10, and/or CM-400AKG as the bulk of its anti-radar armament.

 

[kungfugymnast]

This is what he implies right here.

You simply again failed to read my previou post. Russian now will not deal directly with PA on major weapon sales.-Beast

Things are getting more commercialized that Russia could offer arms sales to just any country including countries that have close ties to America such as South Korea. India is turning towards Europeans and Americans for major arms purchase. Which means Russia will have to look for new potential customers such as PA. China doesn't control PA but more of arms supplier. Of course PA could buy Russian weapons without through China.

The JH-7B has not actually entered production or service yet. The SEAD/EW roles will be taken up by the J-16D, which has integrated jamming receiver pods similar to the AN/ALQ218 as well as a new AESA radar with integrated jamming modes. It will likely carry the CM-102, LD-10, and/or CM-400AKG as the bulk of its anti-radar armament.

View attachment 288643

Glad the jh7b didn't make it. It's not a good attack aircraft and was part of China aviation tech experiments to gain experience on developing aircraft. J16d is a better fighter bomber.

As for Russia, in future, they will cooperate more with China through indirect technology transfer such as sales pf su35. Of course, China must purchase certain numbers in order for Russian military manufacturers to earn profit enough for future R & D on new weapons.

 

[Manidabest]

China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will start receiving its first Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters from Russia later this year.

"Supplies of fighter jets will start in the 4th quarter of this year. For now, everything goes according to plan," a Russian military-diplomatic source told theTASS late last week.
Russia signed a contract to deliver twenty-four Su-35 fighters worth more than $2 billion to China late last year.The contract will be filled within three years according to TASS’s source. Production of a modernized S-108 communications system—which was part of Beijing’s requirements—has already started.

While the addition of the Su-35 will boost Chinese capabilities while the PLAAF waits for its fifth-generation J-20 to enter service. The Su-35S is the most potent version of the Flanker built to date. The powerful twin-engine fighter is high flying, fast and carries an enormous payload. Combined with its advanced suite of avionics, that makes the Su-35 an extremely dangerous foe to any Western fighter with the sole exception of the stealthy Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor.

One Air Force official with experience on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has told me that the Su-35 would also pose a serious challenge for the stealthy new American jet. The F-35 was built primarily as a strike fighter and does not have the sheer speed or altitude capability of the Su-35 or F-22. “The Su's ability to go high and fast is a big concern, including for F-35,” the Air Force official explained me.

The sale of the Su-35 to China is in many ways a reflection of Russia’s weakened bargaining position. The Russians had initially insisted that the Chinese buy a minimum of forty-eight jets because of fears that Beijing simply wanted to harvest the Su-35 for its technology—particularly, the radar, electronic warfare systems and engines.

The new deal does not allow for China to license build the Su-35—but that shouldn't stop Beijing from mining the Su-35 for its technology. With access to a working aircraft, Chinese engineers will be able to learn more about the jet’s AL-41F1S engine, Ibris-E radar and electronic warfare suite. While in recent years China has have made huge technological advances of its own, Russian military technology—particularly for jet engines—is light-years ahead. Once the Su-35 is delivered, the jets are almost certainly to be reverse engineered and copied. One can initially expect advanced derivatives of the J-11 Flanker clone, but an entirely new Su-35 clone might follow as well.

“It’s a great airplane and very dangerous, especially if they make a lot of them,” one senior U.S. military official with extensive experience on fifth-generation fighters told me some time ago. “I think even an AESA [active electronically scanned array-radar equipped F-15C] Eagle and [Boeing F/A-18E/F] Super Hornet would both have their hands full.”


Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for the National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @davemajumdar.

 

[Blue Marlin]

any idea what color scheme they will be having?