Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[Argus Panoptes]

Right, so it was indeed a brain fart after all.

Happy farting

Okay, lets see how successful the Prime Minister will actually be in implementing his policy decision to improve trade and political relations with India. Would you consider that a valid litmus test of who actually control the policy?

 

[Xeric]

Okay, lets see how successful the Prime Minister will actually be in implementing his policy decision to improve trade and political relations with India. Would you consider that a valid litmus test of who actually control the policy?

No, i would not.

This would be your second brain fart in a row by implying that the military will hinder the PM's efforts "to improve trade and political relations with India."

India has its own dynamics, so an initiative by our PM does not necessarily mean that India will also reciprocate. Conversely, it is also criminal to say that our military will try to infringe on the process, even if India does reciprocate.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

No, i would not.

This would be your second brain fart in a row by implying that the military will hinder the PM's efforts "to improve trade and political relations with India."

India has its own dynamics, so an initiative by our PM does not necessarily mean that India will also reciprocate. Conversely, it is also criminal to say that our military will try to infringe on the process, even if India does reciprocate.

Yes, India has its own dynamics which will affect the proposed policy changes by NS. However, both USA and India gain much more by a regional joint process that includes Pakistan than without. Our Army will dig in its heels at every opportunity trying to hold on to its perceived statuses quo on both fronts, but will be forced to concede step by step as the economic stranglehold is tightened slowly. There is nothign criminal in saying that, but an astute reading of the way things will likely shape up.

Oh, and please do try to respond a bit more maturely. Scatological references are so juvenile, more so for a TT. If possible, that is.

 

[Xeric]

Yes, India has its own dynamics which will affect the proposed policy changes by NS. However, both USA and India gain much more by a regional joint process that includes Pakistan than without. Our Army will dig in its heels at every opportunity trying to hold on to its perceived statuses quo on both fronts, but will be forced to concede step by step as the economic stranglehold is tightened slowly. There is nothign criminal in saying that, but an astute reading of the way things will likely shape up.

Oh, and please do try to respond a bit more maturely. Scatological references are so juvenile, more so for a TT. If possible, that is.

The discussion cant go further if you will continue to narrate me fables à la brain farts.

You expect 'mature' answers to criminal accusations? Dude, the burden of proof is on you, so come up with one, or else no one is going to listen to your folklores.

i usually pay back in the same coins and hence the level of maturity you displayed by pulling out ideas from your behind was being reciprocated, nothing more, nothing less.

Bring up a mature discussion (based on facts/solid grounds) and you shall receive the same in response.

 

[Saleem]

@argus; you are trying to defend a PM who appointed a matric pass to head PIA, who gave half a billion rupees to the IPPs without audit or accountability, who postponed presidential elections in order to go on Umrah [to ask for forgiveness for the sins hje is about to commit?] who apointed a gol gappay / dahiballay [to borrow sh.rasheeds term] wala president.......until the crooks masquerading as politicians are barred from running, the army needs to control the traitors.....although the army is also badly compormised since pervez [the cowardly commando general] sold his soul for a few dollars.......he will make policies with a his ittfaq foundry munhsi as finance minister? the budget is a chapa of previous ones with various numbers changed and IMF demand factored in.....all LQLT [lowly trained low quality] ppl ....

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@argus; you are trying to defend a PM who appointed a matric pass to head PIA, who gave half a billion rupees to the IPPs without audit or accountability, who postponed presidential elections in order to go on Umrah [to ask for forgiveness for the sins hje is about to commit?] who apointed a gol gappay / dahiballay [to borrow sh.rasheeds term] wala president.......until the crooks masquerading as politicians are barred from running, the army needs to control the traitors.....although the army is also badly compormised since pervez [the cowardly commando general] sold his soul for a few dollars.......he will make policies with a his ittfaq foundry munhsi as finance minister? the budget is a chapa of previous ones with various numbers changed and IMF demand factored in.....all LQLT [lowly trained low quality] ppl ....

Yes to all that. I am not trying to defend anybody, but merely stating realities.

And the Vice Chair of Think Tank would have us believe that the Army will let such a person actually run foreign and defense policies? Or that it is "criminal" not to believe that? If that is true, then the Army would be an even bigger fool. Which it is NOT. Therefore I say that NOTHING has changed behind the scenes and the Army still calls the shots.

 

[Saleem]

and it should not until the elections are held after proper vetting .....

 

[Xeric]

Yes to all that. I am not trying to defend anybody, but merely stating realities.

And the Vice Chair of Think Tank would have us believe that the Army will let such a person actually run foreign and defense policies? Or that it is "criminal" not to believe that? If that is true, then the Army would be an even bigger fool. Which it is NOT. Therefore I say that NOTHING has changed behind the scenes and the Army still calls the shots.

He can do that because your assertions lack evidence. What do they say...?? Innocent until proven guilty; yet you continue to confuse your behind for brains and build up upon your baseless accusations.

The funny thing that figures out is that you still grade your flatulences higher then the basic (and logical) question that begs for a proof or facts that support your argument. And then you complain that your 'mature' discourse gets referred to being malodorous?!

Strange!

 

[Argus Panoptes]

and it should not until the elections are held after proper vetting .....

You mean vetting by the Army, or free and fair elections?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

There was a name that was coined for him during the Mushy years by some folks.

KK

Kautious Kayani.
Perhaps overly cautious?

However, you have been a bit over emotional in that outburst.

yes it was hard to maintain the Political correctness.
main frustration is lack of any breakthrough against the enemies of our state and the way our military is stating to become a stranger in the country, no one bats an eye over the massacre of its soldiers at the hands of Taliban and there is nothing to suggest that for the past 10 years it is doing things differently to get a different outcome.

in short me being a miserable Ex this and Ex that old ranter.... I say through the plough and the shovel , its not the job of our military to build roads and dig wells for the thankless b@stards.

do what the KSA did to the shias and what Sadam did to the Kurds... they resolved the problem in months.
our army has not even used 5% of its force against this goat funkers .. if it does then even Hamid Mir will have his bladder shattered due to the shell shock in Islamabad or Dubai or whether he sits his fat arse.

He can do that because your assertions lack evidence. What do they...?? Innocent until proven guilty; yet you continue to confuse your behind for brains and build up upon your baseless accusations.

The funny thing that figures out is that you still grade your flatulences higher then the basic (and logical) question that begs for a proof or facts that support your argument. And then you complain that your 'mature' discourse gets referred to being malodorous?!

Strange!

what are you on about Sir?

you lost me

let me read again.........

 

[SQ8]

do what the KSA did to the shias and what Sadam did to the Kurds... they resolved the problem in months.
our army has not even used 5% of its force against this goat funkers .. if it does then even Hamid Mir will have his bladder shattered due to the shell shock in Islamabad or Dubai or whether he sits his fat arse.



what are you on about fauji?

you lost me

let me read again.........

Unfortunately you are also witness to the problems with such an approach.
first, you need a powerful backer in case of KSA.. where you may carry out whatever you wish without the world being able to say much or interfere since you are the darling of the worlds most powerful nation.

Or in the case of Saddam, we are all aware of the American response to that. In our case it will be interpreted as another genocide against particular ethnicity and the vultures are circling. To be effective ,we cant use scorched earth strategies since the Lal Masjid episode is witness to those going completely wrong. After all, until the SSG commander was killed it was all relatively calm.. once that happened.. the soldiers wanted blood. Unfortunately in that mood, they did not care for ensuring that all non-combatants made it out. That is understandable from a Soldiers PoV, but not from the rest of the country and more importantly.. not from the PoV of Media "commencrap-ers" and religious nutjobs. Even today, there are posters and pamphlets plastered in melody market and all over the country that exemplify Lal Masjid as the new Karbala and Abdul Rashid Ghazi equivalent to Shah-e-Shuhada Imam Hussain.

In essence, such tactics can only be undertaken when the entire national fabric is still intact. Turkey has tried similar methods with the Kurds but even they need to play carrot and stick.

 

[Saleem]

You mean vetting by the Army, or free and fair elections?

vetting by patriots including the army , intelligence and judiciary--all crooks, tax thieves and convicts etc should be removed and barred from any public office

 

[Argus Panoptes]

vetting by patriots including the army , intelligence and judiciary--all crooks, tax thieves and convicts etc should be removed and barred from any public office

The problem is that ALL the "crooks, tax thieves and convicts" think they themselves are the best the patriots, including the "army, intelligence and judiciary".

And the saddest part is that we, the people, keep on making the same mistakes again and again, present government included.

What is a good Army to do? Exactly what our Army is doing. Keeping a tight grip on the reigns of power. I find that quite understandable, in a way, as this thread shows.

 

[muse]

The problem is that ALL the "crooks, tax thieves and convicts" think they themselves are the best the patriots, including the "army, intelligence and judiciary".

And the saddest part is that we, the people, keep on making the same mistakes again and again, present government included.

What is a good Army to do? Exactly what our Army is doing. Keeping a tight grip on the reigns of power. I find that quite understandable, in a way, as this thread shows.

I would have hope on the contrary, it should show leadership or get out of the way -- Mr. Gen. Kiyani's repeated messages are that the Army be indemnified, no politician in Pakistan can realistically do that - in any other country a state of emergency would have been declared, but in Pakistan politicians are afraid that once done, the Army will refuse to go back to the abrracks anbd will instead create yet another "emergency", this time to go after India while creating the ground internally for the return of the Jamaat and the sectarians.

 

[Donatello]

Unfortunately you are also witness to the problems with such an approach.
first, you need a powerful backer in case of KSA.. where you may carry out whatever you wish without the world being able to say much or interfere since you are the darling of the worlds most powerful nation.

Or in the case of Saddam, we are all aware of the American response to that. In our case it will be interpreted as another genocide against particular ethnicity and the vultures are circling. To be effective ,we cant use scorched earth strategies since the Lal Masjid episode is witness to those going completely wrong. After all, until the SSG commander was killed it was all relatively calm.. once that happened.. the soldiers wanted blood. Unfortunately in that mood, they did not care for ensuring that all non-combatants made it out. That is understandable from a Soldiers PoV, but not from the rest of the country and more importantly.. not from the PoV of Media "commencrap-ers" and religious nutjobs. Even today, there are posters and pamphlets plastered in melody market and all over the country that exemplify Lal Masjid as the new Karbala and Abdul Rashid Ghazi equivalent to Shah-e-Shuhada Imam Hussain.

In essence, such tactics can only be undertaken when the entire national fabric is still intact. Turkey has tried similar methods with the Kurds but even they need to play carrot and stick.

Strike hard, strike deep. Take out those who are terrorists. Then take out those who shelter them.