Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[Jango]

It is said that there is some agreement between US and Pakistan on higher promotions in armed forces by wish of US. Is it true or not?

The trace is "Fort Leavenworth Experience". Fort Leavenworth has been historically known as the "Intellectual Center of the Army."

In Pakistan case, there have been 123 army officers who have been trained at USACGSC, 73 of them have been the Generals and 4 of them have been the Chief of Army Staff and International Hall of Fame inductees.

Kayani, Musharaf, Aslam Baig and Jhangir Karamat were all trained in US Kansas. Every year, US choose one Major from Pakistan army for training in Fort Leavenworth. This is worth pondering to note that out of 123 officers, 73 of them have gone to become Generals. These facts are telling the story how influential "Fort Leavenworth Experience" is?

interesting info there, it is because only the best officers are sent abroad, so to make the best generals you need to pick the best officers, and if the best officers are sent to US, then be it. It maybe just a bit like NDC or staff college quetta.

 

[Xeric]

123 officers, 73 of them have gone to become Generals.

This only confirms that the merit criteria of Pak Army is flawless and based on principles.

 

[mymeaningislion]

All right, keep your powder dry - I'll make a small wager - Pakistan will not prosecute the war should Americans begin evacuation - you may see an odd company sized operation or a one of larger unit operation -- but you watch, this business off robbing Peter to play Paul, will be something the rest of you will catch on to - of course the military "loyalists" will have a hard time understanding this, but the onus is on the Pakistan military to prove to Pakistanis it's bona fides, not the other way around.

gentlemen i am not very experienced at this forum but one thing is for sure before asking other to prove its loyalty why don't you tell us what amazing you have done for your country and how loyal are you? it is easy to comment on some one but self audit is difficult phase....... as far as army is concern i know being a part of it.......that we dont have to prove our loyalties to anyone as ALLAHA is best judge for our actions...... if you really want to work for pakistan ........ make people aware that support their army and their institutions and try to change the govt and get rid of these morons..... i will be happy if you favor any of them......

 

[greatf]

Guys Guys I am not talking about the merit criteria or any thing else all i want is to confirm that, "is there any understanding between US and Pakistan on Higher promotion in Armed Forces..?.".. .

 

[Guest01]

gentlemen i am not very experienced at this forum but one thing is for sure before asking other to prove its loyalty why don't you tell us what amazing you have done for your country and how loyal are you? it is easy to comment on some one but self audit is difficult phase....... as far as army is concern i know being a part of it.......that we dont have to prove our loyalties to anyone as ALLAHA is best judge for our actions...... if you really want to work for pakistan ........ make people aware that support their army and their institutions and try to change the govt and get rid of these morons..... i will be happy if you favor any of them......

Probably you are confusing your loyalty to the Pakistani Army to that to Pakistan. That is evident by the fact that you are seeking support for dissolving the elected government and also state institutions. Do you think that Pakistan Army is not a state institution? Specially when it is proven (please refer to video evidence threat of Gen. Shuja Pasha in the National Assembly to Nisar) that Pakistani army runs the foreign and critical domestic policy of the country. The current causes of shame to the aam Pakistani = Abbottabad & Mehran raids had nothing to do with the elected government or any of the state institution. These incidents were solely in the ambit of Pakistani Army. Or was Zardari responsible for these too in your views? Further, the very state institutions that you covet to be destructed have in fact been for most time of their existence run by serving or retired Army Generals. Even the poorer Air Force and Naval cousins could also not take away from this Pakistani Army pie of their victorious spoils.

Which disaster can you point out to in the Paksitani history that did not happen on the Army's watch (I can remember only the instance of Ahmedi persecution by Bhutto as having been a divisive elected government decision). Besides that, everything that spelled diaster and doom for Pakistan in the short / medium / long term to this day has been a choice of one or the other Generals!

The arrogance of not even agreeing to be financially accountable (Army budget presented in assembly) to the nation is also a hallmark even in these times when total austerity needs to be transparently exhibited. Hence how is loyalty to the Pakistani Army and its supremacy in Pakistan akin to the loyalty to the nation (nation = common civilian people without the usual choicy epithet!)?

 

[Xeric]

Guys Guys I am not talking about the merit criteria or any thing else all i want is to confirm that, "is there any understanding between US and Pakistan on Higher promotion in Armed Forces..?.".. .

And all i want to confirm is that, "is there any understanding between US and You on when and what do you post here on PDF, when do you eat, sleep or shyt..?"

 

[Windjammer]

And all i want to confirm is that, "is there any understanding between US and You on when and what do you post here on PDF, when do you eat, sleep or shyt..?"

 

[Xeric]

i have done a research of my own. Here's an extract from the annual reports of "Foreign Military Training and DoD Engagement Activities of Interest", which infact provides all the details regarding the modalities involved in the courses and training run by the US military for foreign students:
Pakistan:

india:

--------

Pakistan (2009-10)

india (2009-10)

------

Now if we see the summary one would find out that though there more number of Officer and Men from Pakistan who underwent courses at the US, but then it is india that is paying more (or alternatively received more aid under the IMET Program) for courses abroad especially the US.

Now if see the these two reports:

Pakistan (2007-08)

india (2007-08)

we can see that the major chunk of courses (for Pakistan) were done under the head of CTFP (REGIONAL DEFENSE COMBATING TERRORISM FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM) - ofcourse it is Pakistan that is affected by terrorism the most, so it's logical that most of the courses done by Pakistan military officers were counter-terrorism related.

Also, another reason of Pakistan having a higher number of individuals attending more courses at the US is visible in the following Pic:

Above is the snapshot of the kind of courses (their names) that Pakistani military officers/men underwent, so we can see that most of these courses are related to the EQUIPMENT that we purchase from the US.

Ofcourse, if we are going by a Radar, Radio Set, aircraft etc from the US, we would be sending more individuals for training to the manufacturer's country. india on the other hand is not as much dependent on the US when it comes to weaponry, and thus the lower number of individuals attending courses at the US.

Despite of this (that we have to be more dependent on the US - because of military assistance/aid, counter terror training, specialized training because of the equipment purchase etc) , you can see the difference in figures (amounts) between india and Pakistan.

Further, for now the following may suffice a comparison:
indian army COASs:

Gen Vijay Kumar Singh:

have studied at United States Army Infantry School

is a graduate of the Rangers Course at Fort Benning

and the United States Army War College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania

In the US for the Rangers course, he came first in combat operations.


Gen Krishnaswamy Sundarji has also graduated from Fort Fort Leavenworth.

Gen Sunith Francis Rodrigues was a graduate of Royal College of Defence Studies in the UK.

There are more, but i think i'll be posting them later.

So in short, i think there's no need to overload one's common sense and try presenting everything (related to the military) in a manner that is retarded.

Further reading:

http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/rpt/fmtrpt/2008/index.htm

http://www.fas.org/asmp/campaigns/training/fpo_sasia_all.html

 

[Xeric]

In case someone is wondering about the acronyms/abrv, here's what they mean:

PROGRAMS FUNDED BY FOREIGN NATIONAL FUNDS – FOREIGN
MILITARY SALES (FMS)

PROGRAMS FUNDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE:
1 Foreign Military Financing (FMF)
2 International Military Education and Training (IMET)
3 International Narcotics and Law Enforcement (INL)
4 Global Peace Operations Initiative (GPOI)
PROGRAMS FUNDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (DoD)

1 DoD Regional Centers for Security Studies
2 Drug Interdiction and Counter-Drug Activities:
Counter-Drug Training Support (CDTS)
3 Mine Action (MA) Programs
4 Disaster Response (Humanitarian Assistance)
5 Regional Defense Combating Terrorism Fellowship Program (CTFP)
6 Section 1206 Authority – Building Partnership Capacity
7 Service Sponsored Activities
a Academy Exchanges/Service Academy Foreign Student Program
b Aviation Leadership Program (ALP)
8 Foreign Assistance Act (FAA)
E DoD – JOINT COMBINED EXCHANGE TRAINING (JCET)

---

Non-SA (Non Security Assistance)

This list the reports of the previous decade:

http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/rpt/fmtrpt/index.htm

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

is there any understanding between US and You on when and what do you post here on PDF, when do you eat, sleep or shyt..?"

 

[muse]

gentlemen i am not very experienced at this forum but one thing is for sure before asking other to prove its loyalty why don't you tell us what amazing you have done for your country and how loyal are you? it is easy to comment on some one but self audit is difficult phase....... as far as army is concern i know being a part of it.......that we dont have to prove our loyalties to anyone as ALLAHA is best judge for our actions...... if you really want to work for pakistan ........ make people aware that support their army and their institutions and try to change the govt and get rid of these morons..... i will be happy if you favor any of them......

Allow me to deal with the pertinent, that is the bolded part (my emphasis) -- Sir, you have highlighted a basic problem - It's the army that has to support the Pakistan nation and state, not the other way around.

It's simply a mistake to imagine that anybody is going to be successful by telling the Pakistani nation and state that an institution, a agency of the state gets to tell the state what the nation and state must do on that agency's behalf.

Of course some don't see it that way, and events may yet allow them to choose Pakistan or the army.


And of course the issue of a small wager is yet open - who will accept this small wager that the Pakistan army will not undertake large scale operations against Islamist militants, as the US talks withdrawal

 

[fatman17]

on promotions for US trained officers pls revert to 'TT' ahm/aam guftagu - cannot post on open forum

 

[greatf]

That is not the answer of my question......

 

[Windjammer]

Rawalpindi - June 16, 2011: Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani interacted with the Army / Formation Subedar Majors during the 5th Annual Conference of Subedar Majors held at General Headquarters today.

 

[fatman17]

Which disaster can you point out to in the Paksitani history that did not happen on the Army's watch (I can remember only the instance of Ahmedi persecution by Bhutto as having been a divisive elected government decision). Besides that, everything that spelled diaster and doom for Pakistan in the short / medium / long term to this day has been a choice of one or the other Generals!

who ordered the 73-74 massacre of baluch people - hmmm let me see - holy cow it was ZABhutto as CMLA. and the first military action against the Baluch people was also ordered by a elected govt in 52-53 but i can understand you wernt born then. and who approved the standing of the Taliban movement - hmmm let me see - holy crap it was BBhutto!!!