Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Cybernetics]

"超巡能力" Super-cruise confirmed?

Yah, the screenshot explicitly said Mach 3 testing for J-20. I'm quite impressed if this is real.

 

[cirr]

 

[Asoka]

The F-16's airframe was over engineered to handle double digits g, even though the FLCS restricts maneuvers to 9gs.


No...Thank YOU for cracking up the readers over and over again.

"even though the FLCS restricts maneuvers to 9gs"
That means the F-16 CAN reach beyond 9G's and the airframe IS engineered to handle double digits g's, otherwise, the FLCS won't bother to restrict to within 9Gs, if the F-16 could reach only 3G, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

Boeing and Airbus are not going to wind tunnel test their airliners at MACH 3 and beyond, because their planes are not going to reach MACH 3, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

On a second thought, I actually don't know about this.

So, Gambit, why don't you call them up and offer your expertise to test their full scale plane for them at MACH 3 and beyond, say like at the hypersonic speed, MACH 15.

Just tell them, they don't need to, but its good to do it anyway, because the Chinese do it, even though their plane (J-20) could reach only MACH 2.

"超巡能力" Super-cruise confirmed?

Yah, the screenshot explicitly said Mach 3 testing for J-20. I'm quite impressed if this is real.

if you go to my profile and read all the posts I have made on this topic, you will get the answer.

 

[gambit]

"even though the FLCS restricts maneuvers to 9gs"
That means the F-16 CAN reach beyond 9G's and the airframe IS engineered to handle double digits g's, otherwise, the FLCS won't bother to restrict to within 9Gs, if the F-16 could reach only 3G, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

Nine gs have been established to be the maximum limit that a TRAINED pilot can handle and STILL able to function in the cockpit. An untrained person, even if equipped with a g-suit, will either go into g-loc (loss of consciousness) or even if he/she is conscious, he/she will be too disoriented to function. The operative word here is 'trained'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC

The 9g limit is for humans, not airframe. All airframes have rated maximum stress and sustained limits. Some are lower than others. High performance fighters like the F-16 have the highest human limit of 9g.

We can be sure that this is news to you.

Boeing and Airbus are not going to wind tunnel test their airliners at MACH 3 and beyond, because their planes are not going to reach MACH 3, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

Over engineering is common and it happens even in software engineering.

Over engineering is what enabled some airliners to go vertical and other 'fighter-like' maneuvers, even though %99.999 of the time these aircrafts will not perform these maneuvers.

On a second thought, I actually don't know about this.

There are a lot of shit you do not know, as YOU have amply demonstrated with your ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. I am ignorant about brain surgery. But unlike you, I do not go around talking about brain surgery the way you guys talk about military issues, particularly technical ones.

You were wrong about the HUD.

You were wrong about the J-20's engines capabilities. All you did was guessed and they were not even educated guesses.

You were wrong on interpreting what your own source really mean about wind tunnel testing.

What is to lose in terms of self image if all you have to do is ask ? Nothing.

I was invited to this forum back in '09. Since then, the behaviors of the Chinese members here have been consistent in that you guys think you know it all, and even when impeccable TECHNICAL sources proved you wrong, you guys still insisted on being right. You are no different.

 

[DJ_Viper]

"even though the FLCS restricts maneuvers to 9gs"
That means the F-16 CAN reach beyond 9G's and the airframe IS engineered to handle double digits g's, otherwise, the FLCS won't bother to restrict to within 9Gs, if the F-16 could reach only 3G, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

Boeing and Airbus are not going to wind tunnel test their airliners at MACH 3 and beyond, because their planes are not going to reach MACH 3, no matter how hard the pilot tries.

F-16 has been tested to 10 and close to 11G's (some say 11G for sure). But the issue is, after 10.5 G's, the impact on the air-frame and the human body is tremendous. Remember, you can design jets that can go beyond 11G's, etc, they'd just have to be unmanned jets so that there isn't significant impact on the pilot. Human limitations and careful flying have resulted in FLCS recommendations and restrictions.

Well, you could take Boeing's 737 or Airbus to supersonic too (not Mach 2 or 3, just slightly over Mach 1). Someone will need to rebuild / strengthen parts of the air-frame post flights, to keep the structural integrity intact. Thanks

 

[52051]

The above is 611's 1960s J-9-VI-2 project.

From the picture, one can say J-20 do borrow some design concepts from 611's previous project J-9VI-2 (a double-3 fighters, with mach-3 speed and 30,000 m flight height).

So it is reasonable to believe J-20 may have good top speed, but nowhere near mach-3, could be somewhere between mach2.5 or so (anything beyond that the air drag and related heat will increase siginficantly to the degree the stealth coating maybe burnt).

 

[Asoka]

News flash:

Mig-25 is a 1960's Soviet era interceptor that has a stainless steel body and two massive engines that could output 100kN wet thrust each.

It first flew in 1964, 53 three years ago.

It has a top speed of MACH 3.2, cruising speed of MACH 2.8, and established an absolute altitude record of 37,000m.

And Gambit, a self-proclaimed F-16 pilot and radar expert, is telling everybody here, that 53 years later, China's J-20, a 5th generation stealth fighter, cannot possibly repeat that kind of performances with two +200kN engines, and a state of the art airframe design with Titanium and composite body.

"If all they have are the choices of me and you PDF Chinese, I would get the job. "

Please do write to us how your new job of testing planes at MACH 3 or MACH 15 at Boeing or Airbus goes. Love to hear from you.

The above is 611's 1960s J-9-VI-2 project.

From the picture, one can say J-20 do borrow some design concepts from 611's previous project J-9VI-2 (a double-3 fighters, with mach-3 speed and 30,000 m flight height).

So it is reasonable to believe J-20 may have good top speed, but nowhere near mach-3, could be somewhere between mach2.5 or so (anything beyond that the air drag and related heat will increase siginficantly to the degree the stealth coating maybe burnt).

You sounds pretty sure J-20 could reach MACH 2.5. Tell that to Gambit. He don't think J-20 could even reach MACH 2.0.

"the stealth coating maybe burnt"

really, you tested the coating under those speed?

Are you sure RAM coating cannot be heat resistant? Why is that so? Where is your sources or researches on this subject?

 

[Deino]

The above is 611's 1960s J-9-VI-2 project.

From the picture, one can say J-20 do borrow some design concepts from 611's previous project J-9VI-2 (a double-3 fighters, with mach-3 speed and 30,000 m flight height).

So it is reasonable to believe J-20 may have good top speed, but nowhere near mach-3, could be somewhere between mach2.5 or so (anything beyond that the air drag and related heat will increase siginficantly to the degree the stealth coating maybe burnt).

This is plain wrong, the J-9-VI-2 was only planned for a double-26 requirement. Mach 3 was NEVER an issue !

Even more @Asok ! this is a direct call to stop this nonsense. Your claims do not contain a single point of logic nor academic deduction. They are based on false foundations, Your imagination, fantasy and Your wish-full thinking.

No more additional posts on any of Your J-20 & Mach-3 claims. This completely derails a thread that on the last I would say 10 pages contains much more BS, unfounded hypothesis and wet-dreams.

You are probably correct in only one point: "The China's Strategic Deception has served its purpose... " indeed, since such strange fan-boys are here which only over-trash such informative threads with complete BS only with the intention to hide and hide the facts.

This is a moderator's order. No further response to this issue. Otherwise I delete all that BS. close and later clean that thread. Period.


Deino

 

[ahojunk]

@Asok
You already have your say on J-20 AB and Mach-3.
So move on.

Note: Going forward, all posts mentioning J-20 AB and Mach-3 will be deleted.

 

[masud]

 

[Deino]

Hey ... a very nice what-if !

 

[teddy]

I remember the chief engineer had already told the media the top speed of j20 is Mach 1.7

 

[帅的一匹]

I remember the chief engineer had already told the media the top speed of j20 is Mach 1.7

By 1.7 Mach I guess you mean the super cruise speed

 

[Asoka]

Dear Friends,

I apologize for my insistent and even obsessive since I became active at PDF in the last two. I have posted many things that are actually purely speculative, groundless, without a shred of evidence to support my beliefs or conclusions.

@Deino, @gambit, @pakistanipower, your criticisms are actually valid. I thought about what you have said. I can say without malice or anger that I accept what you said.

Do I (anyone) have evidence that J-20 can even break the sound barrier? I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can fly past Mach 2.0. I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can fly past Mach 2.0 and beyond. I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 is flying with a version of WS-15? I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can do Supersonic Cruise? I don't.
Do I have evidence that WS-15 is 150kN, 180kN, +200kN. I don't.
Do I have evidence that WS-15, pasted all the tests, is operational, and in production? I don't.
Do I have even know what stage of development is WS-15 in? I don't.
Do I know what empty weight of J-20? I don't.
Do I know how much fuel does J-20 carries for demo or testing? I don't.
Do I know the efficiency of WS-15 in terms of dry and wet thrust? I don't.
Do I know what engine is J-20 using? I don't.

In fact, my answers to all the above is as good as anyone's, and just as bad as anyone's.

I normally react with extreme anger when someone disagree with my beliefs or conclusion. And I am actually tired of it. That don't lead me anywhere. But I have been thinking about gratitude and appreciation about people around me. And how could I think differently that I would appreciate people more.

People disagree not because that I might be wrong. They disagreed because I don't have the evidence to support to my hunch/beliefs/opinion/conclusions.

And if I have it, show them. If I don't have it, learn more, dig in more. Don't blame it on another guys for don't belief in you.

I certainly do my own huge share of don't believe in other guys. I don't believe Gambit that F-35's problem could be fixed, for example.

In the beginning, I viewed Deino's disbelief or disagreement with anger, but come to think of it, there are huge amount of B.S, pure speculation, groundless beliefs in the world. His job is like an editor to keep them out of the Forum. People won't know or believe or change their minds, unless there is AMPLE, not just a little, evidence.

This is a good things. I do that too. In fact, plenty of it. That's why I have the reputation of being stubborn or obstinate or stiff necked. I don't change my mind, unless there is strong overwhelming evidence.

Why should I expect other behave not the way I do?

This is my mistake. I humbly accept your criticisms and will try not to be obsessive/compulsive.

Sincerely,
Asok.

 

[Deino]

@Asok !

No need to be sorry and in return I hope You are not angry about my call to "STOP" ! So Your post is really appreciated.

We are all here to spin around our theories, we all have our own perceptions and that is sometimes a bit off - including myself ! - so if it all stays polite and we are not too much blinded by our own ideas to notice the facts, then everything's fine.

So ... let's up to many exciting J-20-related news in 2017 ... and to start with "Cadder" has done these three artworks.
Hopefully there are more.

Close up pictures of J-20, even the cockpit was visible
比美军更帅气！独家曝光歼20战机座舱高清细节

And even in better quality !