Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

@Asok !

No need to be sorry and in return I hope You are not angry about my call to "STOP" ! So Your post is really appreciated.

We are all here to spin around our theories, we all have our own perceptions and that is sometimes a bit off - including myself ! - so if it all stays polite and we are not too much blinded by our own ideas to notice the facts, then everything's fine.

So ... let's up to many exciting J-20-related news in 2017 ... and to start with "Cadder" has done these three artworks.
Hopefully there are more.



View attachment 365707 View attachment 365708 View attachment 365709




And even in better quality !

View attachment 365710

Thanks, Deino, for accepting my apology, graciously. Your excellent/stringent moderation is actually much appreciated. No B.S. is much better than full of B.S.

I have always hate it when a website or newspaper is full of B.S or lies.

I like the idea of maintain an atmosphere of friendly brotherhood to discuss ideas and current affairs.

 

[Ultima Thule]

@ChineseTiger1986 is J-20's DSI are adjustable?

 

[grey boy 2]

AVIC 2017

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@ChineseTiger1986 is J-20's DSI are adjustable?

Yep, many have speculated it uses the adjustable DSI.

 

[Deino]

AVIC 2017

This one is really most impressive !!

PLAESE in full-size.

 

[Deino]

Remember this image from December 11 ??? ... now in better quality, however with deleted serials !

 

[ahojunk]

Dear Friends,

I apologize for my insistent and even obsessive since I became active at PDF in the last two. I have posted many things that are actually purely speculative, groundless, without a shred of evidence to support my beliefs or conclusions.

@Deino, @gambit, @pakistanipower, your criticisms are actually valid. I thought about what you have said. I can say without malice or anger that I accept what you said.

Do I (anyone) have evidence that J-20 can even break the sound barrier? I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can fly past Mach 2.0. I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can fly past Mach 2.0 and beyond. I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 is flying with a version of WS-15? I don't.
Do I have evidence that J-20 can do Supersonic Cruise? I don't.
Do I have evidence that WS-15 is 150kN, 180kN, +200kN. I don't.
Do I have evidence that WS-15, pasted all the tests, is operational, and in production? I don't.
Do I have even know what stage of development is WS-15 in? I don't.
Do I know what empty weight of J-20? I don't.
Do I know how much fuel does J-20 carries for demo or testing? I don't.
Do I know the efficiency of WS-15 in terms of dry and wet thrust? I don't.
Do I know what engine is J-20 using? I don't.

In fact, my answers to all the above is as good as anyone's, and just as bad as anyone's.

I normally react with extreme anger when someone disagree with my beliefs or conclusion. And I am actually tired of it. That don't lead me anywhere. But I have been thinking about gratitude and appreciation about people around me. And how could I think differently that I would appreciate people more.

People disagree not because that I might be wrong. They disagreed because I don't have the evidence to support to my hunch/beliefs/opinion/conclusions.

And if I have it, show them. If I don't have it, learn more, dig in more. Don't blame it on another guys for don't belief in you.

I certainly do my own huge share of don't believe in other guys. I don't believe Gambit that F-35's problem could be fixed, for example.

In the beginning, I viewed Deino's disbelief or disagreement with anger, but come to think of it, there are huge amount of B.S, pure speculation, groundless beliefs in the world. His job is like an editor to keep them out of the Forum. People won't know or believe or change their minds, unless there is AMPLE, not just a little, evidence.

This is a good things. I do that too. In fact, plenty of it. That's why I have the reputation of being stubborn or obstinate or stiff necked. I don't change my mind, unless there is strong overwhelming evidence.

Why should I expect other behave not the way I do?

This is my mistake. I humbly accept your criticisms and will try not to be obsessive/compulsive.

Sincerely,
Asok.

@Asok,
You are a real man and I admire your courage to admit that you were wrong.
Very few PDF members have the courage to do what you just did.
It is all good. Let's move on.
We win some and we lose some.

Remember: When you get upset and angry, your blood pressure goes up, you feel stressed, you are physically hurting yourself (not the other PDF members). It is incredibly bad for health.

@Asok !

No need to be sorry and in return I hope You are not angry about my call to "STOP" ! So Your post is really appreciated.

We are all here to spin around our theories, we all have our own perceptions and that is sometimes a bit off - including myself ! - so if it all stays polite and we are not too much blinded by our own ideas to notice the facts, then everything's fine.

So ... let's up to many exciting J-20-related news in 2017 ... and to start with "Cadder" has done these three artworks.
Hopefully there are more.

+1.

 

[grey boy 2]

Closest encounter of J-20, speculated from the picture that stealth coating has been used since "2001" prototype
歼20战机最近距照片曝光：或早已应用隐身涂料
近日，网络上出现一张歼二十照片，照片拍摄于2011年5月歼二十首飞后不久，虽然过去了很久，但却是迄今为止公开的距离歼二十最近的一张照片。而照片上的歼二十机首的一个小细节透露出一个重要信息：歼二十隐身涂料早已应用。

 

[3jiL]

-Chengdu j-20 Use the Side-joystick like F-16?!

 

[帅的一匹]

-Chengdu j-20 Use the Side-joystick like F-16?!

yes, when the seat lean backward, better with a side joystick.

 

[Asoka]

Closest encounter of J-20, speculated from the picture that stealth coating has been used since "2001" prototype
歼20战机最近距照片曝光：或早已应用隐身涂料
近日，网络上出现一张歼二十照片，照片拍摄于2011年5月歼二十首飞后不久，虽然过去了很久，但却是迄今为止公开的距离歼二十最近的一张照片。而照片上的歼二十机首的一个小细节透露出一个重要信息：歼二十隐身涂料早已应用。

High Temperature Ceramic Based Radar Absorbing materials.
高温吸波材料基体的研究
http://mmwqz.com/960261163/

This new class of Ceramic Based Radar Absorbing Materials is High Temperature heat resistance, anti-oxidation, high strength and fracture resistant. In contrast to polymer based materials, this class of materials must be baked in high temperature oven. This is different from the applied (涂覆型 ) absorbing polymer rubbery materials, which could be easily damaged by rain, heat, sands, or even just by stepping on it.

This over come the heat problem that prevents radar absorbing materials to be use on missiles, inside the jet engine nozzle, and high speed aircrafts.

This class highly heat resistant materials could also forms a barrier to prevent high heat from entering the skin of the aircraft and damage the internal structure or delicate electronics equipments inside it.

The pilot could still be baked by high heat, since I can't see it could be applied to the transparent glass of the cockpit.

It is said that when an aircraft is flying, at sea level in the Middle East, during the Summer, at Mach 0.8, the pilot will experience the heat of a 30kW furnace inside the cockpit. The temperature could easily reach 50C.

If a 5th generation plane is Supercruising at Mach 1.6, and the cooling requirements for internal and external generated heat is underestimated, it could create a huge problem, perhaps causing the electronic equipments to fail.

I used to run a small server cluster with just 30 machines. The heat from them is like turning on 30 heaters. We need to install a AC unit that is the size of a large car on the rooftop to cool the server room. The AC unit keep failing because it has to run 24x7, nonstop.

 

[Asoka]

@Asok,
You are a real man and I admire your courage to admit that you were wrong.
Very few PDF members have the courage to do what you just did.
It is all good. Let's move on.
We win some and we lose some.

Remember: When you get upset and angry, your blood pressure goes up, you feel stressed, you are physically hurting yourself (not the other PDF members). It is incredibly bad for health.



+1.

Thanks, Bro! Yes, getting upset for someone won't accept my conclusion is bad for my health. Better to just present the evidence and let them make their own conclusion.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks, Bro! Yes, getting upset for someone won't accept my conclusion is bad for my health. Better to just present the evidence and let them make their own conclusion.

with due respect bro that is not your conclusion but your assumptions you stated on your various posts that J-20 is 3 meter or 10 feet long from F-22 but various sites states that J-20 is only 4 feet longer than F-22, F-22 total length is 62 feet whereas J-20 total length is 66 feet, so lets wait and see when the J-20 true specification becomes official, if i insult or hurts you please pardon me bro

 

[Asoka]

First of all, I have compared J-20 to Su-27 by using their satellite pictures, and found their BODY length to be almost the same length, 21.2m, or 70ft. I know Su-27's whole length is listed as 72 ft. So I have confidence that the J-20's body length of 70ft is close.

I am comparing nose to nozzle, excluding the tail section that past the nozzle. Using the scale provided in the picture. I found the body length of J-20 to be more than 3m longer than F-22. The body length (nose to nozzle) of J-20 is 21m and the F-22 is 17m. The difference measured from the noses is actually 4.5m, from the air intakes is 3.5m. But I am using 3m, just to be conservative.

So I stand with my assumption/conclusion/opinion that J-20's BODY is more than 3m longer than the F-22.

Now, if J-20 is actually the same weight as F-22, 19.7 tons, that means China's engineers had done an amazing feat of engineering to keep J-20 weight down, despite its 3m longer. That's mean China's airframe design has surpassed US.

I am a patriotic Chinese, but I just can't believe this is true. F-22 is the world leading, state of the art aircraft design. It's body is composed of titanium (42 % by weight) and composite materials (24 % by weight). It's not made of stainless steel like Mig-25, which you can easily reduce the weight by using Titanium and Composite materials.

So, it's far more reasonable for me to assume J-20 is 2 tons or more heavier than F-22. I don't know the fact, since I have not weighted either one aircraft.

To reduce the weight of an aircraft substantially while retains sufficient strength is hard work. Aviation engineers everywhere are whacking their brains to try to save just one kg of weight.

One place Chinese could have saved several hundreds kilos is by using the DSI air intake, and the glass cockpit made lighter by using an reinforce bar. The US is world leader in Airframe and engine design. So I don't expect the Chinese could do a lot better.

Reducing one ton of body weight is the same as increasing one ton of thrust in aircraft performance, probably even better, less demand on fuel, and engine performance.

We are all guessing here. The Chinese and US governments are not going to release any numbers that is close to the actual figures. These are highest state secrets. Both planes are forbidden to be exported to keep the data secret.

If we know the actual weight, and engine performance, radar detection range, foreign intelligences will able to easily figure out the whole flight envelope using wind tunnel models testing and computer simulation.

The external dimensions like length and wingspans are harder to keep secret. Anyone with some good pictures of the plane alongside a known object, will be able to deduce the dimensions.

So I don't expect any released figures (Engine thrust, Maximum speed, Supercruise speed, weight, fuel consumption rate, AESA detection range, RCS, etc . . . ) will be very accurate.

We will have to keep guessing.

 

[Ultima Thule]

First of all, I have compared J-20 to Su-27 by using their satellite pictures, and found their BODY length to be almost the same length, 21.2m, or 70ft. I know Su-27's whole length is listed as 72 ft. So I have confidence that the J-20's body length of 70ft is close.

View attachment 366027

Next I compared J-20 against F-22 and found the BODY (nose to nozzle) to be 3m or 10ft longer. There is a large part of the tail that sticks past F-22's body, so 62ft is not the length of nose to nozzle. I found F-22's body length nose to nozzle to be 17m or 55.8ft.

The body length difference, I found, is actually 3.5m, but I want to be conservative. I don't want to expose to much myself for ridicules.


View attachment 366028
I am comparing nose to nozzle, excluding the tail section that past the nozzle. So I stand with my assumption/conclusion/opinion that J-20's BODY is more than 3m longer.

Now, if J-20 is actually the same weight as F-22, 19.7 tons, that means China's engineers had done an amazing feat of engineering to keep J-20 weight down, despite its 3m longer. That's mean China's airframe design has surpassed US.

I am a patriotic Chinese, but I just can't believe this is true. F-22 is the world leading, state of the art aircraft design. It's body is composed of titanium (42 % by weight) and composite materials (24 % by weight). It's not made of stainless steel like Mig-25, which you can easily reduce the weight by using Titanium and Composite materials.

So, it's far more reasonable for me to assume J-20 is 2 tons or more heavier than F-22. I don't know the fact, since I have not weighted either one aircraft.

To reduce the weight of an aircraft substantially while retains sufficient strength is hard work.

Reducing one ton of body weight is the same as increasing one ton of thrust in aircraft performance, probably even better, less demand on fuel, and engine performance.

We are all guessing here. The Chinese and US governments are not going to release any numbers that is close to the actual figures. These are highest state secrets. Both planes are forbidden to be exported to keep the data secret.

If we know the actual weight, and engine performance, radar detection range, foreign intelligences will able to easily figure out the whole flight envelope using wind tunnel models testing and computer simulation.

So I don't expect any release figures (Engine thrust, Maximum speed, Supercruise speed, weight, fuel consumption rate, AESA detection range, RCS, etc . . . ) will be true.

We will have to keep guessing.