Deino
INT'L MOD
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2014
- Messages
- 12,780
- Reaction score
- 22
- Country
- Location
November 6th came and went but no J-20...
Hu !?? I just wanted to ask ... and so, the show is now over with only one brief "hello" on Day one of the show.
Deino
Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions
- Thread starter lawxx
- Start date
Hu !?? I just wanted to ask ... and so, the show is now over with only one brief "hello" on Day one of the show.
Deino
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
The fact that you don't even know if it is the F or FN version is enough proof that the "report" is unreliable. A large engine order would be all over the news. There would be multiple articles.
There is nothing top secret about the AL-31FN Series 3. Assuming J-10C production will continue, where are the engine sales?
Is that an assumption from you? If you claim wants to be claim as truth. Please back your sentence. If not , I assume you are just speculating by claiming PLAAF always give rubbish news and claim.
We must trust Deino as PLAAF development official spokesmen,right?
Even Current PLAAF chief Ma Xiangtian must kowtow to Deino, right?
Donot try wake up people who are pretending to sleep. they just want to believe what they want to believe. weast your time and mood. let them free to think what its must to be.
Last edited:
grey boy 2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 6,484
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
ohmrlobalobayeh
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2012
- Messages
- 3,388
- Reaction score
- -23
- Country
- Location
sorry to interrupt. Deino but can you explain why do you think Yin Zhuo would have an incentive to misinform the Chinese people- especially on a formal, non-tabloid media platform like CCTV(think about the overly-nationalistic Global times on the opposite end of the spectrum).
Last edited:
星海军事
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- May 15, 2016
- Messages
- 544
- Reaction score
- 7
- Country
- Location
I almost forgot thisI'll bet you that the FC-31 v2.0 will never make an appearance.
Still works todayLet’s make a bet on this.
I bet all J-20s we saw so far (2001, 2002, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, and several LRIP ones) are now using non-domestic engines and J-20 will enter service with non-domestic engines. I will cease this account If I lose.
Deadline: A credible direct participant or an official documentary of Project 718 confirms the suggestion of either side.
Who's in?
Akasa
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 7,227
- Reaction score
- 9
- Country
- Location
I almost forgot this
Don't get your hopes up; the FC-31 is still going nowhere without a buyer. Not to mention that a prototype is technically still not finished.
Zarvan
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2011
- Messages
- 54,470
- Reaction score
- 87
- Country
- Location
Airshow China 2016: J-20 cameo generates more questions than answers
A pair of Chinese J-20 'fifth-generation' fighters overflying this year's Airshow China exhibition in Zhuhai on 1 November. Source: AP/PA
The first public showing of the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) J-20 'fifth-generation' fighter was one of the most anticipated moments of the Airshow China 2016 exhibition, which took place from 1-6 November in Zhuhai, southern Guangdong Province.
However, those hoping to see a demonstration of the capabilities for which the aircraft has become famous through various Chinese online blogs and other open sources came away disappointed.
While two J-20s actually flew at the show during the opening ceremony, neither performed a complete flight routine. The two aircraft, which flew in from an aerodrome in the nearby city of Foshan, initially made a high-speed flyover that looked like the beginning of a two-aircraft demonstration flight.
However, after flying in front of the show's reviewing stand, one of the two aircraft pulled into a short vertical climb for an abbreviated set of manoeuvres and then turned away on to a flight track exiting the aerodrome's airspace.
This J-20 then pulled in behind the second aircraft, which had simply continued on a straight and level course away from the show site after conducting only one fly-by.
The sense of deflated enthusiasm was palpable among the crowd of onlookers as they waited for the aircraft to return, but they did not.
There are believed to be 10 J-20 prototypes, all of which seem to carry out different functions for the J-20 programme. Most recently one of the aircraft was seen conducting a series of tests at a site in Tibet to validate its performance in high and hot climatic conditions.
This has generated a number of questions as to why the aircraft made a rather timid cameo appearance at China's one and only national air show.
"Lack of experience with the aircraft and therefore concern about a mishap cannot be considered a valid reason," said a Russian aerospace executive at the show.
Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options ihs.com/contact
To read the full article, Client Login
(331 of 776 words)
http://www.janes.com/article/65276/...0-cameo-generates-more-questions-than-answers
A pair of Chinese J-20 'fifth-generation' fighters overflying this year's Airshow China exhibition in Zhuhai on 1 November. Source: AP/PA
The first public showing of the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) J-20 'fifth-generation' fighter was one of the most anticipated moments of the Airshow China 2016 exhibition, which took place from 1-6 November in Zhuhai, southern Guangdong Province.
However, those hoping to see a demonstration of the capabilities for which the aircraft has become famous through various Chinese online blogs and other open sources came away disappointed.
While two J-20s actually flew at the show during the opening ceremony, neither performed a complete flight routine. The two aircraft, which flew in from an aerodrome in the nearby city of Foshan, initially made a high-speed flyover that looked like the beginning of a two-aircraft demonstration flight.
However, after flying in front of the show's reviewing stand, one of the two aircraft pulled into a short vertical climb for an abbreviated set of manoeuvres and then turned away on to a flight track exiting the aerodrome's airspace.
This J-20 then pulled in behind the second aircraft, which had simply continued on a straight and level course away from the show site after conducting only one fly-by.
The sense of deflated enthusiasm was palpable among the crowd of onlookers as they waited for the aircraft to return, but they did not.
There are believed to be 10 J-20 prototypes, all of which seem to carry out different functions for the J-20 programme. Most recently one of the aircraft was seen conducting a series of tests at a site in Tibet to validate its performance in high and hot climatic conditions.
This has generated a number of questions as to why the aircraft made a rather timid cameo appearance at China's one and only national air show.
"Lack of experience with the aircraft and therefore concern about a mishap cannot be considered a valid reason," said a Russian aerospace executive at the show.
Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options ihs.com/contact
To read the full article, Client Login
(331 of 776 words)
http://www.janes.com/article/65276/...0-cameo-generates-more-questions-than-answers
Banglar Bir
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 7,805
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
Indian Defence News Facebook
Monday, November 07, 2016
By: National Interest
Source Link: CLICK HERE
Even as China is publicly showing off its new Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter at the Zhuhai air show for the first time, Beijing is continuing its efforts to acquire advanced Russian fighters.
Indeed, while a pair of J-20s garnered the attention of the world’s media, the Russian government quietly announced that it has started work on building 24 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). China signed a contract for the delivery of two-dozen Su-35s in November 2015 worth at least $2 billion.
“Delivery of these aircraft to China will be carried out under the terms defined by the relevant contract,” Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy director of Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, told the Moscow-based TASS news agency. “We are now carrying out the execution of the first phase of our contractual obligations.”
As such, Russia is expected to deliver four Su-35s to the PLAAF before the end of the year. The remaining Su-35s are expected to be delivered within the next three years. But given the Kremlin’s previous experiences with selling China advanced technology, Moscow has insisted on agreements to secure Russian intellectual property onboard the Su-35. In previous years, the Chinese reverse engineered older versions of the Flanker into the Shenyang J-11, J-15 and J-16 series of aircraft.
“We established a Russian-Chinese working group for the purposes of practical implementation of this agreement, which held a regular meeting in September this year,” Drozhzhov said.
Despite whatever agreement Beijing might have signed with Moscow, the Chinese are almost certainly interested in the Su-35 to harvest its technology. While the current configuration of the J-20 externally resembles a genuine fifth-generation fighter in several respects, China remains woefully lacking in engine and mission systems avionics technology. The Su-35’s Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning turbofans, Tikhomirov NIIP Irbis-E phased array radar and electronic warfare suite are likely of high interest to Beijing.
Indeed, China has not perfected its indigenous WS-10 for its Flanker clones, let alone come close to finishing development of the next-generation WS-15 it would need for the J-20. The WS-15 is currently thought to be in a ground-testing phase with flight trials set to begin on an Ilyushin Il-76 some time in the future.
In fact, China has not demonstrated it can build any reliable jet engine—and that’s including designs that it basically stole from Russia. Indeed, the J-20 currently appears to be powered by twin Russian-built Saturn AL-31F engines found on the Sukhoi Su-27 and its many Chinese knockoffs. The addition of the Russian-built AL-41F1S series engines might provide a solution to Beijing’s engine woes.
There are indications that the J-20 carries an active electronically scanned array radar (AESA). Allegedly, the J-20 would be fitted with a Type 1475 (also referred to as the KLJ-5 radar), which is supposedly being tested on a China Test Flight Establishment owned Tupolev Tu-204. However, there is no way to confirm that information because the PLAAF isn’t all that forthcoming about sharing information concerning its developmental projects. However, Russian radar technology is generally believed to be ahead of China’s and it is certainly possible Beijing could glean valuable technical insights from the Irbis-E.
The one advantage the Chinese have over the Russians is in the realm of electro-optical/infrared targeting systems—where Moscow has lagged behind in the wake of the post-Soviet economic meltdown of the 1990s. Indeed, the J-20 does appear to have an electro-optical targeting system (EOTS) mounted under the nose—which could be the Beijing A-Star Science and Technology EOTS-89. But there is no publicly (and reliable) data available about the performance of that sensor. It is very likely it does not match the performance of American or Israeli systems.
Certainly, the J-20 does represent a leap forward for the Chinese defense-aerospace industry. One day, China will be able to develop and build its own jet engines as well as create world-class mission systems avionics—especially given the investment Beijing continues to make into the defense-aerospace sector. However, that day is not today. If the J-20 was really as capable as some would have you believe, Beijing wouldn’t bother with buying a token fleet of Su-35s—there would simply be no point in doing so.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Majumdar is the Defense Editor for The National Interest. You can follow him You on Twitter: @DaveMajumdar.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Monday, November 07, 2016
By: National Interest
Source Link: CLICK HERE
Even as China is publicly showing off its new Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter at the Zhuhai air show for the first time, Beijing is continuing its efforts to acquire advanced Russian fighters.
Indeed, while a pair of J-20s garnered the attention of the world’s media, the Russian government quietly announced that it has started work on building 24 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). China signed a contract for the delivery of two-dozen Su-35s in November 2015 worth at least $2 billion.
“Delivery of these aircraft to China will be carried out under the terms defined by the relevant contract,” Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy director of Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, told the Moscow-based TASS news agency. “We are now carrying out the execution of the first phase of our contractual obligations.”
As such, Russia is expected to deliver four Su-35s to the PLAAF before the end of the year. The remaining Su-35s are expected to be delivered within the next three years. But given the Kremlin’s previous experiences with selling China advanced technology, Moscow has insisted on agreements to secure Russian intellectual property onboard the Su-35. In previous years, the Chinese reverse engineered older versions of the Flanker into the Shenyang J-11, J-15 and J-16 series of aircraft.
“We established a Russian-Chinese working group for the purposes of practical implementation of this agreement, which held a regular meeting in September this year,” Drozhzhov said.
Despite whatever agreement Beijing might have signed with Moscow, the Chinese are almost certainly interested in the Su-35 to harvest its technology. While the current configuration of the J-20 externally resembles a genuine fifth-generation fighter in several respects, China remains woefully lacking in engine and mission systems avionics technology. The Su-35’s Saturn AL-41F1S afterburning turbofans, Tikhomirov NIIP Irbis-E phased array radar and electronic warfare suite are likely of high interest to Beijing.
Indeed, China has not perfected its indigenous WS-10 for its Flanker clones, let alone come close to finishing development of the next-generation WS-15 it would need for the J-20. The WS-15 is currently thought to be in a ground-testing phase with flight trials set to begin on an Ilyushin Il-76 some time in the future.
In fact, China has not demonstrated it can build any reliable jet engine—and that’s including designs that it basically stole from Russia. Indeed, the J-20 currently appears to be powered by twin Russian-built Saturn AL-31F engines found on the Sukhoi Su-27 and its many Chinese knockoffs. The addition of the Russian-built AL-41F1S series engines might provide a solution to Beijing’s engine woes.
There are indications that the J-20 carries an active electronically scanned array radar (AESA). Allegedly, the J-20 would be fitted with a Type 1475 (also referred to as the KLJ-5 radar), which is supposedly being tested on a China Test Flight Establishment owned Tupolev Tu-204. However, there is no way to confirm that information because the PLAAF isn’t all that forthcoming about sharing information concerning its developmental projects. However, Russian radar technology is generally believed to be ahead of China’s and it is certainly possible Beijing could glean valuable technical insights from the Irbis-E.
The one advantage the Chinese have over the Russians is in the realm of electro-optical/infrared targeting systems—where Moscow has lagged behind in the wake of the post-Soviet economic meltdown of the 1990s. Indeed, the J-20 does appear to have an electro-optical targeting system (EOTS) mounted under the nose—which could be the Beijing A-Star Science and Technology EOTS-89. But there is no publicly (and reliable) data available about the performance of that sensor. It is very likely it does not match the performance of American or Israeli systems.
Certainly, the J-20 does represent a leap forward for the Chinese defense-aerospace industry. One day, China will be able to develop and build its own jet engines as well as create world-class mission systems avionics—especially given the investment Beijing continues to make into the defense-aerospace sector. However, that day is not today. If the J-20 was really as capable as some would have you believe, Beijing wouldn’t bother with buying a token fleet of Su-35s—there would simply be no point in doing so.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Majumdar is the Defense Editor for The National Interest. You can follow him You on Twitter: @DaveMajumdar.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Deino
INT'L MOD
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2014
- Messages
- 12,780
- Reaction score
- 22
- Country
- Location
grey boy 2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 6,484
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
j20blackdragon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Airshow China 2016: J-20 cameo generates more questions than answers
A pair of Chinese J-20 'fifth-generation' fighters overflying this year's Airshow China exhibition in Zhuhai on 1 November. Source: AP/PA
The first public showing of the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) J-20 'fifth-generation' fighter was one of the most anticipated moments of the Airshow China 2016 exhibition, which took place from 1-6 November in Zhuhai, southern Guangdong Province.
However, those hoping to see a demonstration of the capabilities for which the aircraft has become famous through various Chinese online blogs and other open sources came away disappointed.
While two J-20s actually flew at the show during the opening ceremony, neither performed a complete flight routine. The two aircraft, which flew in from an aerodrome in the nearby city of Foshan, initially made a high-speed flyover that looked like the beginning of a two-aircraft demonstration flight.
However, after flying in front of the show's reviewing stand, one of the two aircraft pulled into a short vertical climb for an abbreviated set of manoeuvres and then turned away on to a flight track exiting the aerodrome's airspace.
This J-20 then pulled in behind the second aircraft, which had simply continued on a straight and level course away from the show site after conducting only one fly-by.
The sense of deflated enthusiasm was palpable among the crowd of onlookers as they waited for the aircraft to return, but they did not.
There are believed to be 10 J-20 prototypes, all of which seem to carry out different functions for the J-20 programme. Most recently one of the aircraft was seen conducting a series of tests at a site in Tibet to validate its performance in high and hot climatic conditions.
This has generated a number of questions as to why the aircraft made a rather timid cameo appearance at China's one and only national air show.
"Lack of experience with the aircraft and therefore concern about a mishap cannot be considered a valid reason," said a Russian aerospace executive at the show.
Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options ihs.com/contact
To read the full article, Client Login
(331 of 776 words)
http://www.janes.com/article/65276/...0-cameo-generates-more-questions-than-answers
The limited flight routine was enough to show me several things:
1. The aircraft has a decent turn radius.
2. The J-20 demonstrated a turn while climbing at the same time (a chandelle), meaning energy was not lost during the turn. In fact, it was the opposite. When an aircraft turns, speed (and energy) is lost. If too much speed is lost, your aircraft will soon be unable to turn at all. The easiest way to regain speed is to dive. This is one of the reasons why you always want an altitude advantage in a dogfight. You can always dive to increase speed to regain maneuverability of your aircraft. The J-20 showed the opposite.
3. The J-20 did a 90 degree vertical climb. You need a thrust to weight ratio greater than 1.0 to achieve that, which is rather impressive for such a large aircraft with supposedly underpowered engines. The internal fuel supply determines the total weight of the aircraft and we don't know how much fuel the J-20 had at the moment, but we do know the J-20 never landed at Zhuhai Airport. That means it had enough fuel to fly to the airport, perform, and depart the airport to an undisclosed air base. I highly doubt it was flying on near empty fuel.
grey boy 2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2009
- Messages
- 6,484
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
gambit
PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2009
- Messages
- 28,569
- Reaction score
- 148
- Country
- Location
Sorry, but there is nothing spectacular about the chandelle maneuver. In fact, in the US, the FAA requires the execution as part of pilot certification.
http://www.defineaviation.info/commercial-certificate/chandelle/
The maneuver begins at LESS THAN MAXIMUM THROTTLE SETTING. As the aircraft begins to lose speed, throttle reserve are available to regain what was loss. Most student pilots can perform the maneuver without any noticeable loss of speed and altitude.
Similar threads
