Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[wulff]

I cannot guarantee that I was not Indian in my previous life

lol, maybe in next life you'll be chinese

 

[IblinI]

 

[Figaro]

Your image is not showing on the thread. I can only see when it is quoted.

 

[dbc]

The 10% loss happens only when the nozzle is bent or all the time?
I suppose there is no thrust loss when it's straight?

Depends on the nozzle dimension, with the F/22 due to its rectangular exhaust its perpetual otherwise when engaged.

 

[Deino]

...

Your image is not showing on the thread. I can only see when it is quoted.

Indeed strange!??

 

[kungfugymnast]

Numerous sources such as Pupu and the guy who leaked the J-10B TVC test back in 2017 ... and several others. These sources are the closest to "confirmation" we will get besides an official source (which is impossible) or pictures (which is also very difficult to come by). But the fact numerous credible sources said this should give credence to this development. Besides, it's been known that TVC has been tested on J-20 for the past 2 to 3 years ... it makes a lot of sense for them to be finally be produced this year.

For sure they have been experimenting with TVC on J-20 along with other changes on flight prototypes while in preparation for WS-15. No info will be revealed until design finalized.

 

[Grandy]

Again, ... confirmed by whom?

The modified J-20B was unveiled last week.
The ceremony was hosted by many senior military leaders including the Central Military Commission (CMC) vice-chairman General Zhang Youxia.
Speaking at the event, Zhang, who is also in charge of weapons development for the People’s Liberation Army, confirmed the mass production of the J-20B.
He said that J-20B is now equipped with thrust vector control thus helping the jet achieve agility criteria required to ‘classify’ as a fifth-generation fighter jet.
Thrust vector control (TVC) allows pilots to better control the aircraft by redirecting engine thrust. Chinese advancement in TVC technology was first displayed in 2018 when Beijing debuted its J-10C multirole fighter at the air show in Zhuhai.

 

[Figaro]

The modified J-20B was unveiled last week. The ceremony was hosted by many senior military leaders including the Central Military Commission (CMC) vice-chairman General Zhang Youxia.
Speaking at the event, Zhang, who is also in charge of weapons development for the People’s Liberation Army, confirmed the mass production of the J-20B.
He said that J-20B is now equipped with thrust vector control thus helping the jet achieve agility criteria required to ‘classify’ as a fifth-generation fighter jet.
Thrust vector control (TVC) allows pilots to better control the aircraft by redirecting engine thrust. Chinese advancement in TVC technology was first displayed in 2018 when Beijing debuted its J-10C multirole fighter at the air show in Zhuhai.

This Eurasian Times (Indian news network) report was a blatant ripoff Minnie Chan's SCMP article. While the CMC Vice Chairmen event Minnie Chan reported did indeed happen (as this was corroborated by other credible sources on CJDBY and Weibo), the rest of the article is completely wrong (she said the J-20s were going to use TVC AL-31s). The TVC engine in question is the WS-10 IPE, which has a thrust of 14.5 tonnes.

For sure they have been experimenting with TVC on J-20 along with other changes on flight prototypes while in preparation for WS-15. No info will be revealed until design finalized.

Indeed ... nothing solid on the WS-15 except only for it has a target thrust of 180 kN, thrust to weight ratio of 10, and 3D TVC. Everything else is a mystery.

 

[serenity]

Chinese engineers are working 24 hours in teams across the country some sleep while the ones start work in the east. Government have shown nothing new to public just old stuff. J-20B with thrust vectoring is just for mainstream service. Been playing and testing for years before even J-10 thrust vector shown in 2018. Guys the shown things are years and years old! You think J-10 thrust vectoring in 2018 mean they started working in 2017? That J-20B with vectoring start work last year? These projects take nearly 10 years to develop even with full time teams working 24 hours every day for 360 days of 365. Project been going on since 2010 maybe. What they show is old news. J-10 decision to add or not thrust vector engine and if they want to add then which engine all already done and settled before they show public J-10 vectoring. Probably even many years later they decide to show. All show is for politics for country itself and for outside agents. They never show the top stuff. Not even the second shelf.

 

[serenity]

Also the J-10 show for vectoring is not equal to Mig-29 vectoring demonstration or early Su-27 modification demonstrations. Those Russian have different methods due to sales purpose. Those demonstrations were never fully developed. J-10 vector was showing old piece when J-10B frame is standard production at Chengdu. So they showed their step 3 out of step 10 for example and step 10 is for mass production standard. Step 3 is proven to work for public show and low chance of problem. Step 10 is secret and won't show for another few years at least. By that time some other things are at step 10 in development chain.

Russian show step 1 once it is proven to find some customers but notice Mig-35 can be ordered with vector engine after many years from step 1 and standard order does not include it. If you talk to them seriously, they may even tell you quietly why they don't recommend you buy the vectoring type. Su-35 and Su-57 vectoring engines are different and very important to Russia itself and these are much more developed programs. Even with Su-57 first batch engines they are similar to the Su-35 ones and not full 3D just V shaped angles. Although these are fully developed product.

 

[Figaro]

Also the J-10 show for vectoring is not equal to Mig-29 vectoring demonstration or early Su-27 modification demonstrations. Those Russian have different methods due to sales purpose. Those demonstrations were never fully developed. J-10 vector was showing old piece when J-10B frame is standard production at Chengdu. So they showed their step 3 out of step 10 for example and step 10 is for mass production standard. Step 3 is proven to work for public show and low chance of problem. Step 10 is secret and won't show for another few years at least. By that time some other things are at step 10 in development chain.

Russian show step 1 once it is proven to find some customers but notice Mig-35 can be ordered with vector engine after many years from step 1 and standard order does not include it. If you talk to them seriously, they may even tell you quietly why they don't recommend you buy the vectoring type. Su-35 and Su-57 vectoring engines are different and very important to Russia itself and these are much more developed programs. Even with Su-57 first batch engines they are similar to the Su-35 ones and not full 3D just V shaped angles. Although these are fully developed product.

The J-10B TVC demonstration was quite impressive IIRC ... it performed all the classic poststall maneuvers excellently. The TVC performance is more or less in line with what we've seen on the Mig 29, Su-27s, and the F-16 VISTA. I really didn't see much of a difference; TVC performance has more or less been the same for a very long time. What is more important is lowering the weight of the TVC system and reducing thrust loss as much as possible during these maneuvers. Also, having maintenance for TVC should also be key.

 

[serenity]

People surprised of J-20B first is J-20 reaching new levels of production numbers and second surprise is thrust vectoring incorporated. These people expect CCP to personally send them daily updates. These programs are 10 years old and fruit receive today. Today's programs are these people's imaginations.

In war or in 10 years when they give some hints, then these people again caught with pants down for 10 years in surprise huh how come they could do this so fast?!??!?!?!?! They don't begin to think this is old and maybe the Chinese are more capable and much more ahead than they believe due to their news and each other telling each other they are Chinese experts lol.

Since 1960s the CCP give technology and science revolution orders where for high technology programs, there is nothing too expensive, nothing that can be called taking too long, nothing too unworthy of investigation. If you can copy, copy, if you can steal do it and learn. Not everything is about copy and steal but at first there is more and less in future. Nothing not worth eating grass for years for sacrifice for long term eventual happiness. Bitterness before sweet since 1960s thanks to CCP. Sweet age from years of bitterness. Indians still try to pretend the bitterness they taste is really honey good democracy and freedom to shit and rape wherever. This is why Indians dream to have stealth fighter in 20 years and dream to be able to make smartphones and anything. China has for long time and Indians cannot believe cannot admit cannot face reality. Indian soldiers get killed so must be 10000 Chinese killed instead. Cannot face bitterness and will not pay price and sacrifice for sweetness. Therefore sweetness is in imagination and will always be until the journey is traveled.

Since 1960s there are armies of 钱学森 genius and even bigger armies of good engineers and scientists working 24 hours a day across China for these things since 1960s of hydrogen bomb to today's hypersonic weapons and quantum weapons and electronic weapons that is in regular people's imaginations. They recognize the gap is huge and because CCP knows the USA is holder of high technology and technology and science is number 1 and nothing else exists in this world. So when they have 10 good engineers to one program China has 1000 same level engineers and 1 million supporting this 1000. It is quiet war for 70 years!

This began since Europeans and Japanese invaded and nothing else on this earth means anything except technology and science ability. These westerners and observers been surprised since the first hydrogen bomb and continue being surprised today. They will never stop being surprised it seems even when China reaches equal level to USA.

 

[Figaro]

@Deino ... it looks like PDF has finally moved over to the DefenceTalk/SDF type forum style ... and also, the positive/negative rating structure seems to be gone .

 

[IblinI]

@Deino ... it looks like PDF has finally moved over to the DefenceTalk/SDF type forum style ... and also, the positive/negative rating structure seems to be gone .
[/QUOTE]
I was like wt..

 

[Figaro]

@Deino ... it looks like PDF has finally moved over to the DefenceTalk/SDF type forum style ... and also, the positive/negative rating structure seems to be gone .

I was like wt..

The forum still looks buggy and is quite glitchy compared to SDF and other Defencetalk forums. And it appears they removed all the reaction score for everyone (everyone's score are now back to near 0) and the positive/negative ratings are completely gone. The flags seem very out of place too.