Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Ultima Thule]

However, while the PL-12 has a range of approximately 100 kilometers, the P-15 is reportedly capable of destroying targets at a distance of 300km or even 400km, Kashin pointed out.
Global security is not updated since years
And everyone knows that pl15 have a range of 150-200 km same in same class as AMRAAM D OR C7 WHICH HAS A RANGE OF 160 KM

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

So global security is not reliable. Thanks.

 

[serenity]

The designer of J-20 officially said J-20 reached and surpassed the F-22 lift coefficient, and found those F-22 lift coefficient was over advertised, and hormone. But J-20 still made it.

I have proof.

Chinese forums express doubt over this because we cannot be certain what F-22 lift is and true weight is. The Chengdu engineers claim to know some secrets but these are just claims.

 

[Ultima Thule]

E-3 electronic warfare is much stronger than PL-15. Nowadays, modern Air-to-Air missile seeker are totally independent, missile itself is a small airplane, with it's own electronic warfare system, AESA radar, some use infrared seeker.

But long range AtoA seeker are AESA radar, wider visual field. Next generation may integrate both AESA and Infrared seeker.

When PL-15 AESA confront with E-3 electronic warfare, little chance to win.

OH BRO I AM ASKING ABOUT HOW PL15 WILL HAVE LESS RANGE AGAINST E-3 J20 MIGHT DETECT E-3 AT LONG RANGES LETS SAY 250-300 KM
AND AS FOR YOUR INFORMATION E-3 IS NOT ELECTRONIC WARFARE AIRCRAFT BUT AN AWACS
E-8 JSTAR IS A ELECTRONIC WARFARE AIRCRAFT OF USAF

 

[serenity]

How can j20 target E-3 with pl15 then the range is decreases, E-3 is a large aircraft based on airliner

J-20 can still aim for E-3 like aircraft with PL-12 and fire from 50km away. If they can detect J-20 from 200km then they obviously have full advantage but I think they will struggle and maybe around 50 to 100km detection and J-16 launches some very long range missiles, J-20 provide forward targeting.

Most BVR is at 30km or maybe a bit more for high chance of kill. Beyond 100km no one has yet recorded any such things! Modern BVR missile max range is around 70km in real world effectiveness not some dream of 200km kill. Only Meteor missile offers good range and high energy so high probability of kill. J-20 will be using some new missiles and probably already been using. PLA will not show anything until years after and replacement nearly done. PL-12 is so old and PL-15 should be standard but it is too expensive to mass produce when no war is happening. If there is threat of war, we switch completely to PL-15 and upgraded version of different missiles.

 

[vi-va]

Oh bro lift coefficient is other things i don't want to start endless debate with you , you clearly lack the aviation terms interpretation i am talking about how do you know that j20 has light airframe as compare to other 5th gen jets

F-22 lift coefficient is public, at least US Airforce boasted their number. J-20 designer made it, and surpass F-22. Those designer complained a lot, they initially thought this is mission impossible, but still made it eventually.

And the designer finally found F-22 is not as good as they boasted. It was old cold war tactic. Those designer has their channel to get the spec we don't know.

I can assure you, Chinese culture don't and hate boast, those designers can NOT lie on those sensitive issues.

Lighter is a relative number, it depends on the total weight. F-22 is designed with less than 60000 hydraulic press machine. To make it lighter, China built world biggest hydraulic press machine. Biggest Die forging machine.

Those kind of debate is meaningless. But I watched J-20 designer interview, they beat F-22 on many aspect.

 

[serenity]

However, while the PL-12 has a range of approximately 100 kilometers, the P-15 is reportedly capable of destroying targets at a distance of 300km or even 400km, Kashin pointed out.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

So global security is not reliable. Thanks.

Definitely not reliable. I notice most english information on Chinese military stuff is usually very rare to find something honest and accurate. Often they get it so wrong and either it is too low or too high. PL-15 is around 150km range. 300km range is hard to ask from even PL-xx types, there are ballistic version and ramjet versions all should be at most 300km and much larger than PL-15 in size. Honestly 150km range is highly impressive. Close to Meteor and higher than reported best AMRAAM version from most modern upgrade.

 

[Ultima Thule]

J-20 can target E-3 with anything! Why must it be with 50000km range missiles?! I don't understand so many members here. Is it really difficult to understand? J-20 can still aim for E-3 like aircraft with PL-12 and fire from 50km away. If they can detect J-20 from 200km then they obviously have full advantage but I think they will struggle and maybe around 50 to 100km detection and J-16 launches some very long range missiles, J-20 provide forward targeting.

Most BVR is at 30km or maybe a bit more for high chance of kill. Beyond 100km no one has yet recorded any such things! Modern BVR missile max range is around 70km in real world effectiveness not some dream of 200km kill. Only Meteor missile offers good range and high energy so high probability of kill. J-20 will be using some new missiles and probably already been using. PLA will not show anything until years after and replacement nearly done. PL-12 is so old and PL-15 should be standard but it is too expensive to mass produce when no war is happening. If there is threat of war, we switch completely to PL-15 and upgraded version of different missiles.

Oh bro don't live in the fools world technology is increasingly sophisticated and please do tell me why USA and Russia develop AIM-154 and R-33 in 70 nearly both have a range of 200 km and why USAF develop meteor like BVR if ducted rocket motor powered BVR is so effective and meteor has its own problem its intake creates drag so its kinetic performance degrades fairly quickly

 

[vi-va]

OH BRO I AM ASKING ABOUT HOW PL15 WILL HAVE LESS RANGE AGAINST E-3 J20 MIGHT DETECT E-3 AT LONG RANGES LETS SAY 250-300 KM
AND AS FOR YOUR INFORMATION E-3 IS NOT ELECTRONIC WARFARE AIRCRAFT BUT AN AWACS
E-8 JSTAR IS A ELECTRONIC WARFARE AIRCRAFT OF USAF

Every AWACS is electronic warfare system compare with small AtoA missile. Their system is capable to detect and confront with small seeker. This is basic self defense of AWACS.

Detecting E-3 from 1000 is meaningless. You can NOT make a kill. To make a kill, first you need to penetrate their defense system, usually will be F-22, F-35, RIM-67 Standard ER. Get closer, and fire.

 

[serenity]

F-22 lift coefficient is public, at least US Airforce boasted their number. J-20 designer made it, and surpass F-22. Those designer complained a lot, they initially thought this is mission impossible, but still made it eventually.

And the designer finally found F-22 is not as good as they boasted. It was old cold war tactic. Those designer has their channel to get the spec we don't know.

I can assure you, Chinese culture don't and hate boast, those designers can NOT lie on those sensitive issues.

Lighter is a relative number, it depends on the total weight. F-22 is designed with less than 60000 hydraulic press machine. To make it lighter, China built world biggest hydraulic press machine. Biggest Die forging machine.

Those kind of debate is meaningless. But I watched J-20 designer interview, they beat F-22 on many aspect.

J-20 can surpass F-22 lift due to HUGE canard application and ventral fins. Our fighter is also quite light for its size and for stealth fighter. Around 18 tonnes according to whispers. Heavier than flanker but for stealth fighter, it is surprisingly light. According to them, done by new manufacturing processes and material processing and 3D printing some parts. Also our metamaterials for the skin is high end stealth unlike what Americans love to say. Our fighter is as stealthy as their's on F-35 and better than F-22. F-22 uses old stealth method of materials and paint. Already seen them breaking off and cracking only after 10 years and still they store them very preciously. Their F-35 matched our's with metamaterials latest generation stealth technology but their systems and engines are probably much better.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Every AWACS is electronic warfare system compare with small AtoA missile. Their system is capable to detect and confront with small seeker. This is basic self defense of AWACS.

Detecting E-3 from 1000 is meaningless. You can NOT make a kill. To make a kill, first you need to penetrate their defense system, usually will be F-22, F-35, RIM-67 Standard ER. Get closer, and fire.

I am still waiting for my ANSWER why pl15 have a decrease range against E-3
And when any one can try to shoot down an E-3 like targets not single fighter jet try to shoot down AWACS like targets but fighter jets comes into a whole package with your AWACS/electronic warfare aircraft and support aircraft etc etc

 

[serenity]

What is this conversation about? E-3 is defended by many layers of things. Killing it means either the PL-xx with long range like above 150km maybe up to 300km can slip through and hit it, then yes it is killable. Who said J-20 and PL-15 is there to kill E-3?? J-20 and PL-15 only improves PLAAF fighting ability. Up to doing more in terms of presenting some dangers to E-3 and those types of aircraft. It is not 100% or 0%.

 

[Ultima Thule]

What is this conversation about? E-3 is defended by many layers of things. Killing it means either the PL-xx with long range like above 150km maybe up to 300km can slip through and hit it, then yes it is killable. Who said J-20 and PL-15 is there to kill E-3?? J-20 and PL-15 only improves PLAAF fighting ability. Up to doing more in terms of presenting some dangers to E-3 and those types of aircraft. It is not 100% or 0%.

To deny E-3 mission and most BVR are not fire at max range to increase a chance of hit all BVR fired in NEZ( NO ESCAPE ZONE) to increase the chance of hit and its lot bigger than as compare to NEZ against fighter jets

 

[vi-va]

To deny E-3 mission and most BVR are not fire at max range to increase a chance of hit all BVR fired in NEZ( NO ESCAPE ZONE) to increase the chance of hit and its lot bigger than as compare to NEZ against fighter jets

E-3 no escape zone is smaller than fighter, that's for sure. The problem is not maneuverability, it's electronic warfare.

There is no absolute range for any missile, it totally depends on your target, their maneuverability, speed, directions and more importantly their electronic warfare system.

If your target is running away at March 2.5, range decrease.
If your target is running toward you at March 2.5, range increase.
If your target is P-8, or C-17, or KC-10, KC-46, range increase.
If your target is Boeing E-3 Sentry, range decrease.

So any figure on PL-15 range is misleading at least, it varies as many other systems as well, such as S-300, HQ-9, etc.

 

[Ultima Thule]

E-3 no escape zone is smaller than fighter, that's for sure. The problem is not maneuverability, it's electronic warfare

Why its large aircraft this shows you you have no knowledge about military aviation

 

[vi-va]

Why its large aircraft this shows you you have no knowledge about military aviation

My major is C4ISR, what do you think?