grey boy 2
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Source: 《兵器》2017年增刊B
Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions
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Source: 《兵器》2017年增刊B
beijingwalker
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China's New J-20 Fighter Jets Outclass Regional Rivals
OCT 3, 2017 @ 05:00 AM
Chinese J-20 stealth fighter jets fly past during a military parade at the Zhurihe training base in China's northern Inner Mongolia region on July 30, 2017. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
China just started using its Chengdu J-20 fighter jets, a military official announced last week via state-run Xinhua News Agency. The long-range stealth fighters are evidently China’s best in their class. They should help the People’s Liberation Army air force with long-range interception or position it to strike first at infrastructure targets on the ground. China will probably focus on its coasts and land borders, the most likely sites of skirmishes given China’s turbid neighbor relations. “The PLA Air Force, like the PLA Navy, lagged behind for many years and is eager to acquire cutting-edge capabilities now that the Chinese industrial base has grown stronger and budgets are flush,” says Joshua Pollack, editor of The Nonproliferation Review in Washington.
China’s latest can beat three other weighty countries that are developing similar aircraft, although this is largely because rival aircraft have yet to be released or proven yet in service. They are:
The United States is the “only country with a fully operational fifth-generation fighter,” think tank Center for Strategic & International Studies says in this analysis of the J-20. The F-35, first shipped in 2011, differs from the J-20 in its wing layout and the sources of key components such as engines, per this analysis. China and the United States, two old Cold War foes, regularly disagree now over geopolitical issues, though decades of dialogue have reduced the threat of war to near zero.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphj...ter-jets-beat-these-3-countries/#397f8e8a3b89
OCT 3, 2017 @ 05:00 AM
Chinese J-20 stealth fighter jets fly past during a military parade at the Zhurihe training base in China's northern Inner Mongolia region on July 30, 2017. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
China just started using its Chengdu J-20 fighter jets, a military official announced last week via state-run Xinhua News Agency. The long-range stealth fighters are evidently China’s best in their class. They should help the People’s Liberation Army air force with long-range interception or position it to strike first at infrastructure targets on the ground. China will probably focus on its coasts and land borders, the most likely sites of skirmishes given China’s turbid neighbor relations. “The PLA Air Force, like the PLA Navy, lagged behind for many years and is eager to acquire cutting-edge capabilities now that the Chinese industrial base has grown stronger and budgets are flush,” says Joshua Pollack, editor of The Nonproliferation Review in Washington.
China’s latest can beat three other weighty countries that are developing similar aircraft, although this is largely because rival aircraft have yet to be released or proven yet in service. They are:
- India: Indian aerospace and defense firm Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. is working with Russian aircraft maker JSC Sukhoi Co. to develop what this news report describes as a fighter aircraft with stealth capability. It would be in the same class as the J-20. But the project is “complicated,” and work will go slowly, the head of a Russian state-owned export promotion firm was quoted saying in the report. The two countries have worked together since 2007. Russia’s military is considered stronger than China’s, but India is a step behind and troops from the two countries faced off over a disputed border region for 70 days in mid-2017.
- Japan: An R&D institute under Japan’s Ministry of Defense has contracted Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to develop a stealth fighter called the X-2 Shinshin. After eight years of development, a test flight delayed due to parts failure went smoothly in April 2016, per this industry news report. The aircraft is built expressly to dodge radars. But the plane is still in development. On top of that, Japan is reportedly considering development of another fighter jet, dubbed the F-3. Why so many fighters? The rise of China’s military strength troubles Japan. The two face off regularly over a dispute tract of the East China Sea, and Tokyo is taking an ever stronger role in checking Beijing’s expansion in the South China Sea.
- Russia: In addition to the fighter being developed with India, Sukhoi will finish research and development on another J-20 peer, the PAK FA T-50, in 2019 with initial trials due next year, the country’s news service TASS reports. This aircraft, two of which got into a mock dogfight at an aviation show in July, was originally due for use this year. China got there first. The two countries have lived in peace for the past 25 years, following several border clashes.
The United States is the “only country with a fully operational fifth-generation fighter,” think tank Center for Strategic & International Studies says in this analysis of the J-20. The F-35, first shipped in 2011, differs from the J-20 in its wing layout and the sources of key components such as engines, per this analysis. China and the United States, two old Cold War foes, regularly disagree now over geopolitical issues, though decades of dialogue have reduced the threat of war to near zero.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphj...ter-jets-beat-these-3-countries/#397f8e8a3b89
Asoka
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According to some self educated stealth expert living in this forum, the name of the parts is the key point to achieve stealthy, no matter it is big or small.
The two giant stabilizers generate 0.000000000001m^2 RCS, for it's called Stabilizers which is much closer to "stealthy".
They will lost this 0.000000000001m^2 RCS ability when move to front of the aeroplane and named as canards, that's a joke.
Wings, V-tails, H-Tails: good name.
Canards: bad name
Your question is explained: B-2 is stealthy even the wings are much much much bigger than J-20 canards.
F-22's giant tail stabilizers, are actually much bigger, and has greater surface areas, than J-20's canards. According to the pakistaniGuy's claim that should be return greater RCS.
Because @pakistanipower doesn't know what he's talking about ... he equates RCS only to surface area... idiot
For once, I agree with you. If @pakistanipower equates RCS only to surface area, then he's a bigger idiot than I've previously imagined ...
Yes, this pakistaniGuy really is equating surface area with RCS return. And he really think by moving the tails, to the front, and call it canards, really gives the plane EXTRA surface area.
"he's a bigger idiot than I've previously imagined"
He is the biggest idiot in this J-20 thread. And he is not interested in learning new things, by picking up the technical keywords, and google and reading about them in articles, written by experts in the fields.
And if the canards and other control surfaces, are made of composite materials, and coated with RAM, that would significantly reduces the RCS, even deflected in big angles.
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The way J-20 looks to me, it's as if the designers were intending to make it an unmanned aircraft. Like, the cockpit was an after thought.. Dunno, cockpit looks a little weird to me, was it suppose to be there ? hmmm
beijingwalker
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grey boy 2
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I'm not sure if it has been posted before
Figaro
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Is this Jacksonbobo guy a special PLAAF photographer? He has a lot of weibo followers and posts very high quality shots ... insider access?
yantong1980
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The way J-20 looks to me, it's as if the designers were intending to make it an unmanned aircraft. Like, the cockpit was an after thought.. Dunno, cockpit looks a little weird to me, was it suppose to be there ? hmmm
Too good to be true, sound like a dream become true if one day they announced creation unmanned J-20. But for me, I wouldn't surprised if in the future they 'use' unmanned J-20 as test platform for next 6th gen fighter.
grey boy 2
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grey boy 2
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What the J-20 Fighter's Arrival Means for China's Power Projection Capabilities
15:48 05.10.2017(updated 17:35 05.10.2017)
The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has officially commissioned the Chengdu J-20 fifth-gen stealth fighter into military service, with testing underway to make the plane fully operational. In an exclusive analysis for Sputnik, Russian military observer Vasily Kashin outlines the capabilities that the new plane provides.
China has become the second country in the world after the United States to formally adopt a fifth-generation fighter plane into service. Alongside the American F-22 and F-35, and Russia's Su-57, the J-20 has brought China into a very small group of countries capable of building fifth-gen aircraft.
Last week, Defense Ministry spokesman Wu Qian confirmed that the twin-engine, single-seat jet had been "officially commissioned" into service with the PLAAF, adding that flight testing is being carried out "as scheduled."
"This is an outstanding achievement," according to military observer Vasily Kashin, "but its real impact on the combat capabilities of the PLAAF will depend on a large number of factors which are not entirely known to us," he wrote in an analysis of the new plane for Sputnik.
The analyst, a specialist Chinese military power, explained that these factors include the question of whether the Chinese aviation industry will be able to achieve a relatively high production rate for the new aircraft at an affordable price.
The history of the US effort to build fifth-gen fighters serves as a cautionary tale, Kashin noted. After all, he recalled, the high production cost of the world's first fifth-gen fighter, the US F-22 Raptor, led to the early termination of production of that aircraft.
Such things have already occurred in the Chinese military industry in the past, the analyst stressed. "It's enough to recall the story of the arrival of the first batch of JH-7 bombers into the Chinese' Navy's air force (the PLANAF), after which production of the planes was halted, and resumed only in 2004 with the advent of the more advanced JH-7A."
The navy was left dissatisfied with the JH-7's lack of precision air-to-surface strike capability, which the JH-7A remedied. The new plane also includes a stronger airframe (increasing its maximum ordnance load), improved sensor systems, electro-optics, counter-jamming, radar, flight control systems and other upgrades.
Kashin doesn't believe that the 'base' J-20 will meet the same fate as the JH-7. Nevertheless, the observer stressed that "mastering such a complicated machine will not be an easy task for the PLAAF," particularly if global experience in the production of fifth-gen fighters is anything to go by.
Recalling again the experience of the US, the observer pointed out that the US Air Force first began purchasing F-22s in 1999 for testing and pilot training. The planes didn't reach basic combat readiness until December 2005, after which they began to be used in major drills. Reaching full combat readiness required another two years, until December 2007.
The US wouldn't deploy its F-22s in the Persian Gulf until 2009, and they wouldn't see their first combat use until 2014, when they were used to strike Daesh (ISIL/ISIS) in Syria and Iraq, in spite of the fact that the US military was involved in several wars during this period (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya).
"The development of the second US fifth-generation fighter, the F-35, has been even more painful," Kashin added. "The US Air Force received its first batch of F-35As in 2011, but was not ready to announce their basic combat readiness until the end of 2016."
Another problem with the F-35 is its staggering cost, with an estimated total price tag in excess of $1.5 trillion dollars and climbing. Military observers call the F-35 a perfect example of what happens when engineers are given a blank check to build a miracle super plane, and then given more and more money as the military attempts to get something for the immense funds committed to the program.
Russia has faced its own problems with the Sukhoi Su-57 (formerly known as the T-50 or PAK FA), an aircraft in the active prototype stage since 2009. Making its first flight in 2010, the plane, expected to be introduced sometime between 2018 and 2019, has faced problems with the creation of a truly fifth-generation engine, instead using NPO Saturn izdeliye 117 engines, the same as those used by the 4++ generation Su-35S air superiority fighter, in the interim. Designers expect to equip the T-50 with fifth-gen izdeliye 30 engines starting in 2020.
According to Kashin, part of the problem faced by fifth-generation fighter designers worldwide is that "many of the capabilities of these planes which lead to a huge increase in costs may prove superfluous in the wars for the future."
The analyst noted, for instance, China and other powers are allocating vast resources to combatting stealth capabilities via air defense. This means that many of the technologies used by these planes to ensure low-visibility on radar will depreciate in value with the passage of time.
Furthermore, the observer pointed out that "very often, air power will be used against irregular forces and insurgents. In the fight against this kind of adversary, there is no need for the capability to cruise at supersonic speed, low visibility or powerful radar with active phased array antennae. What the aircraft will need is the ability to maintain a very high rate of combat operations –flying several combat sorties per day, without interruptions or excessive time on the ground for maintenance."
For these kinds of missions, Kashin wrote, "fifth-gen planes may lose out to older planes."
Ultimately, the analyst believes that China will be likely to continue to maintain its fleet of less expensive fourth generation aircraft, such as the J-11B and the J-11D, as the backbone of the country's air defenses. "Fourth generation planes will also be used in ground operations where the capabilities of fifth-gen aircraft are clearly redundant –for example, near China's south and southwestern borders."
As far as the J-20 is concerned, Kashin said that for now, the PLAAN will continue to experiment with the new aircraft, "developing their own tactics for using stealth plane and, simultaneously, creating new tactics for combatting enemy stealth aircraft."
https://sputniknews.com/military/201710051057975225-j20-chinese-air-power-russian-perspective/
15:48 05.10.2017(updated 17:35 05.10.2017)
The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has officially commissioned the Chengdu J-20 fifth-gen stealth fighter into military service, with testing underway to make the plane fully operational. In an exclusive analysis for Sputnik, Russian military observer Vasily Kashin outlines the capabilities that the new plane provides.
China has become the second country in the world after the United States to formally adopt a fifth-generation fighter plane into service. Alongside the American F-22 and F-35, and Russia's Su-57, the J-20 has brought China into a very small group of countries capable of building fifth-gen aircraft.
Last week, Defense Ministry spokesman Wu Qian confirmed that the twin-engine, single-seat jet had been "officially commissioned" into service with the PLAAF, adding that flight testing is being carried out "as scheduled."
"This is an outstanding achievement," according to military observer Vasily Kashin, "but its real impact on the combat capabilities of the PLAAF will depend on a large number of factors which are not entirely known to us," he wrote in an analysis of the new plane for Sputnik.
The analyst, a specialist Chinese military power, explained that these factors include the question of whether the Chinese aviation industry will be able to achieve a relatively high production rate for the new aircraft at an affordable price.
The history of the US effort to build fifth-gen fighters serves as a cautionary tale, Kashin noted. After all, he recalled, the high production cost of the world's first fifth-gen fighter, the US F-22 Raptor, led to the early termination of production of that aircraft.
Such things have already occurred in the Chinese military industry in the past, the analyst stressed. "It's enough to recall the story of the arrival of the first batch of JH-7 bombers into the Chinese' Navy's air force (the PLANAF), after which production of the planes was halted, and resumed only in 2004 with the advent of the more advanced JH-7A."
The navy was left dissatisfied with the JH-7's lack of precision air-to-surface strike capability, which the JH-7A remedied. The new plane also includes a stronger airframe (increasing its maximum ordnance load), improved sensor systems, electro-optics, counter-jamming, radar, flight control systems and other upgrades.
Kashin doesn't believe that the 'base' J-20 will meet the same fate as the JH-7. Nevertheless, the observer stressed that "mastering such a complicated machine will not be an easy task for the PLAAF," particularly if global experience in the production of fifth-gen fighters is anything to go by.
Recalling again the experience of the US, the observer pointed out that the US Air Force first began purchasing F-22s in 1999 for testing and pilot training. The planes didn't reach basic combat readiness until December 2005, after which they began to be used in major drills. Reaching full combat readiness required another two years, until December 2007.
The US wouldn't deploy its F-22s in the Persian Gulf until 2009, and they wouldn't see their first combat use until 2014, when they were used to strike Daesh (ISIL/ISIS) in Syria and Iraq, in spite of the fact that the US military was involved in several wars during this period (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya).
"The development of the second US fifth-generation fighter, the F-35, has been even more painful," Kashin added. "The US Air Force received its first batch of F-35As in 2011, but was not ready to announce their basic combat readiness until the end of 2016."
Another problem with the F-35 is its staggering cost, with an estimated total price tag in excess of $1.5 trillion dollars and climbing. Military observers call the F-35 a perfect example of what happens when engineers are given a blank check to build a miracle super plane, and then given more and more money as the military attempts to get something for the immense funds committed to the program.
Russia has faced its own problems with the Sukhoi Su-57 (formerly known as the T-50 or PAK FA), an aircraft in the active prototype stage since 2009. Making its first flight in 2010, the plane, expected to be introduced sometime between 2018 and 2019, has faced problems with the creation of a truly fifth-generation engine, instead using NPO Saturn izdeliye 117 engines, the same as those used by the 4++ generation Su-35S air superiority fighter, in the interim. Designers expect to equip the T-50 with fifth-gen izdeliye 30 engines starting in 2020.
According to Kashin, part of the problem faced by fifth-generation fighter designers worldwide is that "many of the capabilities of these planes which lead to a huge increase in costs may prove superfluous in the wars for the future."
The analyst noted, for instance, China and other powers are allocating vast resources to combatting stealth capabilities via air defense. This means that many of the technologies used by these planes to ensure low-visibility on radar will depreciate in value with the passage of time.
Furthermore, the observer pointed out that "very often, air power will be used against irregular forces and insurgents. In the fight against this kind of adversary, there is no need for the capability to cruise at supersonic speed, low visibility or powerful radar with active phased array antennae. What the aircraft will need is the ability to maintain a very high rate of combat operations –flying several combat sorties per day, without interruptions or excessive time on the ground for maintenance."
For these kinds of missions, Kashin wrote, "fifth-gen planes may lose out to older planes."
Ultimately, the analyst believes that China will be likely to continue to maintain its fleet of less expensive fourth generation aircraft, such as the J-11B and the J-11D, as the backbone of the country's air defenses. "Fourth generation planes will also be used in ground operations where the capabilities of fifth-gen aircraft are clearly redundant –for example, near China's south and southwestern borders."
As far as the J-20 is concerned, Kashin said that for now, the PLAAN will continue to experiment with the new aircraft, "developing their own tactics for using stealth plane and, simultaneously, creating new tactics for combatting enemy stealth aircraft."
https://sputniknews.com/military/201710051057975225-j20-chinese-air-power-russian-perspective/
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