Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

name one stuff that was 'revealed' by official news report which was prior to “翻墙党"'s clear pics and insiders' "side-talks" since 90s, just name one please``j-20? type 052C? J-10B/C/D? Y-20? J-31? Z-20? 055? or 039? or new SSBNs?

you have no idea the rigidness of the security works in that circle```and official news outlet is in line with the system, relying on official news regarding our military progress is as solid as relying on Jackpot to get rich```as matter of the discussion, WS-15 is nowhere near "mass production", and there is not one picture of WS-15 out yet (not the core, but the whole set)

Dude, note my sarcastic tone in this post.

"WS-15 is nowhere near "mass production".

That is my point, Bro.

 

[Figaro]

Leave the cost of J-20 out of the discussions, folks. It is quite meaningless. If J-20 cost twice of a J-15 or J-11, you still need a well trained pilot for each plane. A good pilot is not cheap to train.

So you are better off with a smaller number of a very good plane, versus a large number of not so good planes.

China is still a very poor country, for sure. But money is not what is lacking, or a limiting factor in producing massive number of J-20. The limiting factor is the ability of China to produce reliable engine components for the WS-15 engines.

50 J-20 per year, means 100 WS-15 per year. Can Liming Engine Factory produce 100 WS-15 right now? I will continue keep doubting it, until I see some definite proofs.

The good news is China has already invested a lot of money into this.

It will take time to iron out all the production problems. As some wisemen said, the devil is lurking in the details.

The only proof, that this problem is finally solved, is having hundreds of WS-15, in service, for several years, accumulating tens of thousands of flying hours.

And then we will know, fore sure.

Mr. Asok, your statements are very contradicting here. You call China a "very poor country" and yet you say money "is not what is lacking". How many "very poor" countries are capable of producing high thrust turbofans at 100 a year? Please google your statements ... China's GDP/capita is 16,700

I think some day when the truth is finally out ... surely several years from now and when we are already a bit (at least) grey, we should sit together and remember these good old days when we were fighting for and against each argument, stubborn like teenagers and have a good meal together.

Agreed. I cannot believe Mr. Asok did not recognize a blatantly obvious photo distortion. It wasn't even really a PS; it was just changing the filter of the photo. And since when did PLAAF planes come with green noses?!?

 

[Asoka]

Mr. Asok, your statements are very contradicting here. You call China a "very poor country" and yet you say money "is not what is lacking". How many "very poor" countries are capable of producing high thrust turbofans at 100 a year? Please google your statements ... China's GDP/capita is 16,700



Agreed. I cannot believe Mr. Asok did not recognize a blatantly obvious photo distortion. It wasn't even really a PS; it was just changing the filter of the photo. And since when did PLAAF planes come with green noses?!?

" Please google your statements ... China's GDP/capita is 16,700 "

Where did you got that number? Check your math.

China is still very poor per capita, because its lower than Mexico, Brazil and other middle income countries, and the income gap between rich and poor is far greater than US. There are still hundred of millions still struggling with less than $2 income, per day.

China is not lacking money to produce 100 turbofan engine per year because it has nearly $3,000,000,000,000 dollars of foreign exchange reserves to pay for them.

 

[Figaro]

" Please google your statements ... China's GDP/capita is 16,700 "

Where did you got that number? Check your math.

View attachment 420177

I am not using the nominal GDP/capita rigged in favor of the USD. I'm using the standard PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) which is a much more accurate indication of total economic transactions. Just type China in wikipedia and you'll see its GDP/capital PPP is at 16,676. You might as well retake Economics 101.

 

[Asoka]

I am not using the nominal GDP/capita rigged in favor of the USD. I'm using the standard PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) which is a much more accurate indication of total economic transactions. Just type China in wikipedia and you'll see its GDP/capital PPP is at 16,676. You might as well retake Economics 101.

GDP/capital PPP is non sense. It is purely make up numbers. I guess you took Economics 101, and that's why you are mislead into believing they mean something.

Let me guess, you know Mr. @Deino from other Forums, and he invited you to come here PDF, to argue for him.

 

[Figaro]

GDP/capital PPP is non sense. It is purely make up numbers.

Given your overt Chinese nationalism and chest-thumping, you believe that the GDP nominal rigged in favor of the United States' reserve currency should be taken over PPP? This is why your statements are so contradictory! If you believe China is the power it currently is, then why are you using biased sources to evaluate your approach. I have taken intro2economics in college and I can tell you that PPP is a much better reference to one's economy. Look up the Big-Mac-Index.

P.S. Are you the guy who claims that China deliberately made deceiving nozzles to conceal the 210 kN WS-15 engine? And you claim that the WS-15 has thrust-vectoring for videos?

 

[Asoka]

Given your overt Chinese nationalism and chest-thumping, you believe that the GDP nominal rigged in favor of the United States' reserve currency should be taken over PPP? This is why your statements are so contradictory! If you believe China is the power it currently is, then why are you using biased sources to evaluate your approach. I have taken intro2economics in college and I can tell you that PPP is a much better reference to one's economy. Look up the Big-Mac-Index.

P.S. Are you the guy who claims that China deliberately made deceiving nozzles to conceal the 210 kN WS-15 engine? And you claim that the WS-15 has thrust-vectoring for videos?

"you believe that the GDP nominal rigged in favor of the United States' reserve currency should be taken over PPP?"

I believe PPP GDP per capita is pure nonsense, for no other reason that it is pure nonsense.

Those numbers mean nothing for national strength. National strength are determined by a combination of international competitiveness in various industries and services.

Not by some numbers conjured up some economists from thin air.

"I have taken intro2economics in college"

No wonder, you believe those nonsense. I pity you. I really do.

"Are you the guy who claims that China deliberately made deceiving nozzles to conceal the 210 kN WS-15 engine?"

No one I know has claim WS-15 nozzles was deliberately made to deceive anyone. I do believe similarity of the external appearance of its nozzles to AL-31, are incidental, and has confused many observers.

But J-20's nozzles have no similarity to WS-10, in anyway, and that has not stop many people from claiming its flying WS-10.

"And you claim that the WS-15 has thrust-vectoring for videos?"

I do claim WS-15 has 3D TVC, from looking at some pictures, not videos.

 

[Figaro]

"you believe that the GDP nominal rigged in favor of the United States' reserve currency should be taken over PPP?"

I believe PPP GDP per capita is pure non sense, for no other reason that is pure non sense.

Those numbers mean nothing for national strength. National strength are determined by a combination of international competitiveness in various industries and services.

Not by some numbers conjured up some economists from thin air.

How is it pure nonsense? Does your Chinese pizza cost more than your American one? Are Chinese consumer-goods much cheaper than American ones? That's what PPP takes into account for. GDP nominal is heavily manipulated by currency fluctuations. For example, Russia's GDP nominal declined by almost 50% in 2 years because of the Ruble's plunge. Your last part is a classic red-herring bait; it has nothing to do with GDP nominal or PPP. And no, I did not join PDF to "support" Deino in attacking you. I'm merely here to learn a thing or two; I could care less about the friction between you two.

 

[Asoka]

How is it pure nonsense? Does your Chinese pizza cost more than your American one? Are Chinese consumer-goods much cheaper than American ones? That's what PPP takes into account for. GDP nominal is heavily manipulated by currency fluctuations. For example, Russia's GDP nominal declined by almost 50% in 2 years because of the Ruble's plunge. Your last part is a classic red-herring bait; it has nothing to do with GDP nominal or PPP. And no, I did not join PDF to "support" Deino in attacking you. I'm merely here to learn a thing or two; I could care less about the friction between you two.

If its so much better, name some countries that publish their GDP in PPP.

I, honestly, have never heard the Chinese government or any Chinese publications or individuals used this GDP in PPP number, to publish the economic figure.

"And no, I did not join PDF to "support" Deino in attacking you. I'm merely here to learn a thing or two; I could care less about the friction between you two."

You are not being honest, here. I really doubt that you don't know Mr. Deino from some other Forums. And that you were not here, because of his invitation or urge.

"I'm merely here to learn a thing or two;"

Really? I am surprised to know that. My apology to you.

 

[Deino]

..
You are not being honest, here. I really doubt that you don't know Mr. Deino from some other Forums. And that you were not here, because of his invitation or urge.

....

Really? I am surprised to know that.

@Asok shut up, leave these stupid accusations and don't make an idiot out of Your own.

YES, I surely go around in other forums and look for supporters of my ideas. Then I invite them to argue for me ... how ridiculous can that be.
You got his reply and if we know each other from wherever does not count: He has each right to discuss here like anyone else ... if like his opinion or not.

 

[Figaro]

"And no, I did not join PDF to "support" Deino in attacking you. I'm merely here to learn a thing or two; I could care less about the friction between you two."

You are not being honest, here. I really doubt that you don't know Mr. Deino from some other Forums. And that you were not here, because of his invitation or urge.

"I'm merely here to learn a thing or two;"

Really? I am surprised to know that.

Deino is a very nice man and quite authorative when it comes to the PLAAF. I did come to know Deino through his various publications and SDF but that is not important right now. I did not come to PDF to gang up on you: Deino has not told me to join PDF. I read some of your ridiculous comments and pointed them out.

PS : You do have a reputation on other forums of claiming the WS-15 Is 210 kn, 3d vectoring, and has AL-31 nozzles however

 

[Asoka]

Deino is a very nice man and quite authorative when it comes to the PLAAF. I did come to know Deino through his various publications and SDF but that is not important right now. I did not come to PDF to gang up on you: Deino has not told me to join PDF. I read some of your ridiculous comments and pointed them out.

PS : You do have a reputation on other forums of claiming the WS-15 Is 210 kn, 3d vectoring, and has AL-31 nozzles however

"PS : You do have a reputation on other forums of claiming the WS-15 Is 210 kn, 3d vectoring, and has AL-31 nozzles however"

I do? I must thank Mr. Deino for letting the truth out in other forums.

Thank You Mr. Deino. And I apologize for being rude to you, sometimes.

 

[Figaro]

"PS : You do have a reputation on other forums of claiming the WS-15 Is 210 kn, 3d vectoring, and has AL-31 nozzles however"

I do? I must thank Mr. Deino for letting the truth out in other forums.

Thank You Mr. Deino. And I apologize for being rude to you, sometimes.

This was not just his concensus; many SDF members already knew about it and decided to not get involved. They share Deino opinion. But he or no one else called you out specifically by name. But I already k who this individual was from reading ur posts

 

[Deino]

... I must thank Mr. Deino for letting the truth out in other forums.
...

You are wellcome !
Like I said, You are almost famous in the "outer world" of non-PDF-supporters and indeed I re-posted Your claims (always without mentioning You by name) not to make You famous but to get a deeper understanding and an insight into Your claims .. However I must admit, none in any of these forums - You would say Western-infected forums - gave me a reason to follow Your claims. Even more none of them supports Your opinion.

But anyway IMO it is the way we can indeed come closer to the truth: Stay open minded also against "unique" opinions and claims in order to sort out, argue and come to an own conclusion.


By the way one question: You are always telling us how proud You are that the Chinese authorities at AVIC, CAC, the PLAAF and so on were able "fool" us all. Deception is the art of war and You are proud that they deceived us all: all these stupid, arrogant Westerns like me, the CIA, the USAF, the Pentagon, Gates and so on ... You are proud to be a Chinese and You surely can be.

But don't You rate Yourself then as a traitor? Telling the facts, "letting the truth out in other forums", exposing national secrets to opponents, isn't this the highest level of treason ??

Do we need to be worried ? Take care of You my most-favourite "opponent".
Deino

 

[Figaro]

You are wellcome ! Like I said, You are almost famous in the "outer world" of non-PDF-supportes and indeed I re-posted Your claims (always without mentioning You by name) - not to make You famous - but to get a deeper understanding and an insight into Your claims .. However I must admit, none in any of these - You would say Western-infected - forums gave me a reason to follow Your claims. Even more none of them supports this opinion.

But anyway IMO it is the way we can indeed come closer to the truth: Stay open minded also against "unique" opinions and claims in order to sort out, argue and come to an own conclusion.


By the way one question: You are always telling us how proud You are that the Chinese authorities at AVIC, CAC, the PLAAF and so on were able "fool" us all. Art of war is deception and You are proud that they deceived us all: all these stupid, arrogant Westerns like me, the CIA, the USAF, the Pentagon, Gates and so on ... You are proud to be a Chinese and You surely can be.

But don't You rate Yourself then as a traitor? Telling the facts, "letting the truth out in other forums", exposing national secrets to opponents, isn't this the highest level of treason ??

Do we need to be worried ?
Deino

Asok has never read the art of war... period. It specifically states not to overestimate your own capabilities while underestimating those of everyone else.