Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[oct605032048]

Even the russian engines were as advances as alien's technology it is still a second choice compared to home made fighter hearts.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Here's a joke, you still haven't answered....

You answered with info foundation -(pre university) students know, and tools found mostly in all university laboratories. Not to mention that ProE and Nastran are mostly Mech. Eng. tools. But anyway, lets see past that.

So what PM would a decent engineer such as you allow for a system in such a case.. ?? this is an answer most control engineers know, by experience ... so what is it ?

if you are such an advanced engineer (wow) that you simply don't remember, ask some of your raytheon buddies .. they will still remember .. even if you claim you don't ...

oh i forgot to say .. lol, because lol makes everything better ..right?

You still acting like a child!!!!

In mordern control it is all state space, and none linear control. But again these are theory. We control engineers use mostly software to do it!!!

Lame crap like PM, are used only for classical control and only for single input single output systems only. Also, it is completely NOT useful for nonlinear control!!!

you need to STFU and learn some basics!!!

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

This is amazing, J-20 at its early stage can already perform such tight turns like this!!!

F-35 can NEVER do this!!

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Pure denial, that is low of you, low but expected.


The truth is hard to swollow, but the claims are officially from Saturn and the engines have undergone and passed endurance tests long ago To be more specific 5 engines or batches have been tested including two that were sent for in flight tests onboard the SU-35 117S-04 and 117S-05, and recently the pre production SU-35S has been undergoing flight tests.

As for your imature and off topic aircraft carrier rant, the blue prints for the future carrier(s) will not be ready until 2012, so your rant just backfired.

You are talking bullshit!!!

J-20 uses WS-10G, and is clearly NOT your russian S-117 engine. So how do you explain that?

The Chinese are confident enough to use WS-10G on their most important Stealth fighter prototype!! How can you mere russian say that WS-10 still have quality issues??

The fact is that your crappy Pka-af, still does not have TVC engine and still use S-117, yet you mere russians keep brag about how advanced your TVC is and how good your so called AL-41 is going!!!

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Use English, the moderators have warned you before.

What they are saying is that AL-31 has very short engine life. WS-10A has entered mass production and now comparable with AL-31FN, but WS-10G is far superior than AL-31FN, WS-10G is even better than S-117.

Russia has no chance selling S-117 to China. The reason China recently bought 150 AL-31FN is because has very short life around700 hours. That is why they are being replaced so fast.

But dont worry, after this batch China will not buy anymore AL-31FN, because WS-10A will be fully ready!

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

So than you want to post a link to show everyone?

Also be specific about the AL-31, the engine design is 30 years old and conveniently you and your compatriots keep comparing the WS-10 to the original AL-31F. Why don't you compare it to something more modern such as AL-31FN or AL-31FM1?

.

You are wrong. There are some thing compareable already. WS-10A is comparable with AL-31FN, but WS-10A has more thrust.
WS-10G is even better than S-117, it has 155KN while S-117 has just 147KN. WS-10G is on J-20 now!!

Go learn some facts!!!

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

ptldM3;[/B]2136446]

Will surpass? The WS-10 has never surpass anything from Saturn or Salyut and the 117S as well as the more advanced 117 simply outclass the WS-10 in every category.[/QUOTE]



//////////////////////////////////////



BullSH!T !!!!

WS-10G is BETTER than your S-117. WS-10G is on J-20, and it has 155KN of thrust while your so called "advanced" S-117 has just 147KN. Also, WS-10G is VERY VERY realiable. That is why the Chinese put it on J-20. Even thogh J-20 is still at its prototype stage!!

Your Pka-af after 2 years of testing still uses S-117 with no TVC!!! [B]WHAT A SHAME!!!!!! WHAT A SHAME!!!!![/B]

 

[Luftwaffe]

Out Classed

 

[ptldM3]

You are talking bullshit!!!
J-20 uses WS-10G, and is clearly NOT your russian S-117 engine. So how do you explain that?

I challenge you to find a post where i said that the J-20 used the 117s. Don't mix me up with other people or put words in my mouth.

The Chinese are confident enough to use WS-10G on their most important Stealth fighter prototype!! How can you mere russian say that WS-10 still have quality issues??

It came directly from people either involved in the WS-10 development or testing. And just because an engine is used in a test aircraft does not mean it does not have problems that need to be worked out. The WS-10 is not bad, i nerver said it was, i only pointed out that it had problems which many engines do in the early stages and that it's MTBO and service life isn't anything special.

The fact is that your crappy Pka-af, still does not have TVC engine and still use S-117, yet you mere russians keep brag about how advanced your TVC is and how good your so called AL-41 is going!!!

The pak-fa does have TVC, this has been know since day one, if you still don't beleive me i can post a video with the nozzles moving. And explain the word 'still', how does the pak-fa 'still' use an engine that has never been installed on any previous aircraft? And the pak-fa is not equipied with the S-117, it is equiped with the 117 not to be confused with the 117S. The future powerplant is neither of those.

And a quick search would yeild that Russia has more experience with TVC engines than anyone else. However, to date China has little experience with TVC engines, in fact there has been zero Chinese aircraft with TVC. So to put things into perspective, a Chinese guy insults the pak-fa for not having TVC engines when in reality the pak-fa does have TVC, to add injury to insult China has nearly no experience with TVC engines besides maybe some prototype while Russia has at least 4 different types of aircraft with TVC.

What they are saying is that AL-31 has very short engine life. WS-10A has entered mass production and now comparable with AL-31FN, but WS-10G is far superior than AL-31FN, WS-10G is even better than S-117.

No such thing as a 'S-117". As stated before there is the 117s and the more powerful 117. And there is no reliable or solid information about the mythical WS-10G. If thrust numbers is what you go by--and take those thrust accounts with caution. The AL-41 produced unheard of thrust when it was in its prototype stage (40,000lbs), but just because a prototype produced X amount of thrust does not mean it will produce the same number when production starts. Thrust alone means nothing, what really matters is T/W ratio if Russia wanted to produce an engine only meant for thrust they could, in fact Russia has the most powerful military jet engine in terms of thrust, it produced 245kn or over 55,000 lbs thrust. It comes down to producing the most thrust from the smallest and lightest engine possible. Furthermore, efficientcy, bypass ratio, MTBO and service life are all important factors. So can you give the readers an example of how the WS-10G is superior?And please don't use thrust numbers because even then the WS-10G does not match the 25 year old AL-41.

Russia has no chance selling S-117 to China. The reason China recently bought 150 AL-31FN is because has very short life around700 hours. That is why they are being replaced so fast.

the 117s has a minimum life of 4000 hours and as i told others stop mixing up MTBO with service life, the AL-31FN has a service life of 1,500 hours, the upgraded one is atleast 2,000 hours.

You are wrong. There are some thing compareable already. WS-10A is comparable with AL-31FN, but WS-10A has more thrust.
WS-10G is even better than S-117, it has 155KN while S-117 has just 147KN. WS-10G is on J-20 now!!

Read the previous things i said about thrust, the WS-10G could very well have more thrust but that does not mean that it has a better T/W ratio. For that kind of thrust the engineers likely made the engine larger than the standard WS-10. Larger engines means more power, making a very large engine that produces high thrust does not mean it will have a favorable T/W ratio or that it will even be any good. The AL-41 produced 40,000lbs thrust 25 years ago that is 177kn, so what is your point about thrust? It means nothing if you don't have other information such as T/W ratio or efficiency.

Out Classed

A Pakistani of all people trying to take a cheap shot at Russian engines. Ironically the JF-17 uses Russian engines that China has to import from Russia due to China's inability to produce its own engine. And the problem with the the 117 engine was emediately solved. It was nothing more than a glitch in the fuel supply systems, problems like this is not unusual in the development stage when the engine has a new and complex FADEC.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You are talking bullshit!!!

J-20 uses WS-10G, and is clearly NOT your russian S-117 engine. So how do you explain that?

The Chinese are confident enough to use WS-10G on their most important Stealth fighter prototype!! How can you mere russian say that WS-10 still have quality issues??

The fact is that your crappy Pka-af, still does not have TVC engine and still use S-117, yet you mere russians keep brag about how advanced your TVC is and how good your so called AL-41 is going!!!

The J-20 uses the prototype of WS-15, and i know it is hard to believe. However, we will figure out later.

 

[pzkilo]

The J-20 uses the prototype of WS-15, and i know it is hard to believe. However, we will figure out later.

I disagree with u in this case. But J20 will use ws15 very soon. I think that will happen in 1 or 2 years.

 

[amalakas]

You still acting like a child!!!!

In mordern control it is all state space, and none linear control. But again these are theory. We control engineers use mostly software to do it!!!

Lame crap like PM, are used only for classical control and only for single input single output systems only. Also, it is completely NOT useful for nonlinear control!!!

you need to STFU and learn some basics!!!

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------



This is amazing, J-20 at its early stage can already perform such tight turns like this!!!

F-35 can NEVER do this!!

What difference does it make? If you don't know, go out and find some of your Raytheon collegues and ask them. I'll take that for an answer. But you can't can you? You can quote things you can google as much as you want, but when it comes to real experience you have no clue, don't you?

My guess is that you are a kid and it is your dad that is the engineer. And that is the best case scenario. All the others are just too insulting for you, I don't care to mention.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I disagree with u in this case. But J20 will use ws15 very soon. I think that will happen in 1 or 2 years.

What's the point to fly with an engine that will not be serve as the production aircraft?

Just check the history of F-22 4001, then you will get a clear picture how it works.

 

[pzkilo]

What's the point to fly with an engine that will not be serve as the production aircraft?

Just check the history of F-22 4001, then you will get a clear picture how it works.

sigh, Because that is USA, I think u dont often pay attention with CD Fy 航天航空港, do u?。。。。
we can not compare with USA right now, especially engine tech. OK? we r far away behind USA。And J20 couldnt wait for WS15 to maiden flight, for political reasons, technical reasons and etc.
多去国内论坛里看看就明白了

 

[ishrat287]

http://www.7mliveonline.com ?7m.cn
J-20 5th Generation Aircraft: Updates & Discussions
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[ChineseTiger1986]

sigh, Because that is USA, I think u dont often pay attention with CD Fy 航天航空港, do u?。。。。
we can not compare with USA right now, especially engine tech. OK? we r far away behind USA。And J20 couldnt wait for WS15 to maiden flight, for political reasons, technical reasons and etc.
多去国内论坛里看看就明白了

CD飞扬之类的我就不多看了，现在只看大神论坛网天

 

[houshanghai]

Congratulations on the 62th anniversary of China