Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[randomradio]

There probably won't be one. The J-10 has outstanding maneuverability. It's probably the best it can be in 3rd generation fighter. After that, it's probably just 5th and 6th generation fighters controlling their drones, which could act as throw away armory carrying extra missiles..

I was referring to a 5th gen replacement for the J-10.

Anyway, if you use a Chinese generation term in one sentence, don't use a Western gen term in another, it's confusing. Preferably on western forums, maybe you can stick to using western gen terms.

 

[Akasa]

I was referring to a 5th gen replacement for the J-10.

Anyway, if you use a Chinese generation term in one sentence, don't use a Western gen term in another, it's confusing. Preferably on western forums, maybe you can stick to using western gen terms.

Current trends sort of suggest that the J-20 would replace both the J-10 + J-11 as an air-superiority aircraft with added air-to-surface capability. Of course, that doesn't rule out the military purchasing FC-31s a few years down the line.

 

[grey boy 2]

 

[randomradio]

Current trends sort of suggest that the J-20 would replace both the J-10 + J-11 as an air-superiority aircraft with added air-to-surface capability. Of course, that doesn't rule out the military purchasing FC-31s a few years down the line.

That doesn't make much sense. You want a smaller aircraft complementing your larger aircraft. There are quite a few reasons for that. If a J-20 crashes, you will be grounding your fleet for a while. It won't be good if that grounds your entire 5th gen fleet.

And you don't need to follow the US policy of high and low end. You can have a large high end and a smaller high end jet also, similar to IAF with the MKI/Rafale, FGFA/AMCA. The smaller jet can be made more advanced as well, while developing it within a much shorter time frame by using J-20's tech.

As for the FC-31, from what I've read, it was developed without PLAAF input. So I don't think it has relevance.

 

[Akasa]

That doesn't make much sense. You want a smaller aircraft complementing your larger aircraft. There are quite a few reasons for that. If a J-20 crashes, you will be grounding your fleet for a while. It won't be good if that grounds your entire 5th gen fleet.

And you don't need to follow the US policy of high and low end. You can have a large high end and a smaller high end jet also, similar to IAF with the MKI/Rafale, FGFA/AMCA. The smaller jet can be made more advanced as well, while developing it within a much shorter time frame by using J-20's tech.

As for the FC-31, from what I've read, it was developed without PLAAF input. So I don't think it has relevance.

Which is why I said that the FC-31 could potentially be a complement (despite not having received any military funding) to the J-20.

The J-10 would one day have to be replaced. If you were talking about a 4.5/5th gen hi-lo mix, then the J-10C already serves as the "low" end of the fighter spectrum.

 

[randomradio]

Which is why I said that the FC-31 could potentially be a complement (despite not having received any military funding) to the J-20.

The J-10 would one day have to be replaced. If you were talking about a 4.5/5th gen hi-lo mix, then the J-10C already serves as the "low" end of the fighter spectrum.

A previous gen aircraft will form the low end.

But I'm looking forward to a smaller high end 5th gen aircraft that's designed to be superior to the current J-20. Maybe a first flight over the next 2 or 3 years and induction after 2023.

 

[Akasa]

A previous gen aircraft will form the low end.

But I'm looking forward to a smaller high end 5th gen aircraft that's designed to be superior to the current J-20. Maybe a first flight over the next 2 or 3 years and induction after 2023.

You mean, a 6th generation aircraft?

 

[Asoka]

A previous gen aircraft will form the low end.

But I'm looking forward to a smaller high end 5th gen aircraft that's designed to be superior to the current J-20. Maybe a first flight over the next 2 or 3 years and induction after 2023.

A swarm of stealthy, cheap, expendable, unmanned drones, carrying extra missiles, commanded by J-20 will form the low end of the spectrum. They could be sent ahead of the J-20s to clear the path. Anyone trying to shoot them down will expose their presence and position to the J-20s. The stealthy oil tanker drones could also refuel other drones and J-20. Drones could also speed ahead and spread out to act as advance spotters, supplying targeting informations and other intelligences, for the J-20s, using IRST and other passive sensors.

With the help of the drones, a single J-20 could command a vast area with a high degree of battlefield persistence and situational awareness.

It takes years to train a good pilot, so to lose one is a heavy blow. 150-200 hrs of training a year is very expensive. The advantage of unmanned drones is that no training for the "pilot" is required. That is a huge saving. Plus no need to worry about sacrificing a pilot, so you could use them more daringly. The potent combination of Supercomputer, AI, Big Data and Deep Learning is just around the corner.

It might be able to make better decisions than human soon.

The J-10s, and J-11s could still be very useful to bomb the hell out of the enemy positions, but for aerial combats, leave that to the J-20s and their drones.

 

[randomradio]

You mean, a 6th generation aircraft?

No. A 5.5th gen jet if you want to call it that. Nobody has yet defined a 6th gen jet.

 

[Akasa]

No. A 5.5th gen jet if you want to call it that. Nobody has yet defined a 6th gen jet.

Nobody knows what the Chinese have planned as a successor.

 

[randomradio]

Nobody knows what the Chinese have planned as a successor.

Yes. That's why...

I'm actually looking forward to the J-10 replacement.

This will give interesting ideas on how design has progressed over the last 10 years in China.

 

[Akasa]

Yes. That's why...


This will give interesting ideas on how design has progressed over the last 10 years in China.

And I gave you the answer in the second post: the J-20 will eventually overtake the role of the J-10 once its successor comes into service.

 

[randomradio]

And I gave you the answer in the second post: the J-20 will eventually overtake the role of the J-10 once its successor comes into service.

I don't think you got my point. What you are talking about is at least 20-25 years away. I'm talking about the next 5-10 years.

Anyway, China has been emulating the American concept of war. So there's a pretty good chance there is a J-XX in the works that will directly replace the J-10.

 

[Akasa]

I don't think you got my point. What you are talking about is at least 20-25 years away. I'm talking about the next 5-10 years.

Anyway, China has been emulating the American concept of war. So there's a pretty good chance there is a J-XX in the works that will directly replace the J-10.

I don't think so. In the same way that you don't see another US 5th-gen fighter replacing the F-16/18/ (besides the F-35), it would be redundant for the Chinese to develop another analogue of the FC-31.

 

[DCS]

I have seen a CAC proposal, a smaller fifth generation single engine fighter based around the WS-15. It will have engine commonality with the J-20, while enjoying lower costs per flying hour. The J-10 has thrived alongside the J-11/15/16 series for much the same reasons.

FC-31 is a smaller twin engine fighter with analogous costs of operation to the J-20. It is using a different class of engines than the rest of the fleet. The only argument for it was service in the PLANAF, where its form factor could potentially be an asset. It makes more sense for the PAF and its fleet of JF-17.