Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[gambit]

^^^ Please stop copy pasting everything and anything you find anywhere and everywhere. Going through this clutter is seriously cumbersome and annoying. Stick to the thread and open another thread on "principles of a stealth design" or whatever. That should take care of your 'copy pasting' fix.

If what I posted went 'whhhooooosssshhhhh' over your head, let me know and I will seriously try to make it sssssslllllloooooooowwwwwweeeeeerrrrrr.

 

[krash]

If what I posted went 'whhhooooosssshhhhh' over your head, let me know and I will seriously try to make it sssssslllllloooooooowwwwwweeeeeerrrrrr.

Hahahahaha..........I remember this being a legitimate comeback when i was in 5th grade . Now please dont come back with "my dad can beat up your dad"........make a new thread and stop cluttering this one. Move on.......

 

[gambit]

Hahahahaha..........I remember this being a legitimate comeback when i was in 5th grade . Now please dont come back with "my dad can beat up your dad"........make a new thread and stop cluttering this one. Move on.......

With YOU...Looks like I have to go down to that level.

 

[rcrmj]

With YOU...Looks like I have to go down to that level.

you already are, look all the 'one-bigger-upper' posts you have

 

[Juice]

Hahahahaha..........I remember this being a legitimate comeback when i was in 5th grade . Now please dont come back with "my dad can beat up your dad"........make a new thread and stop cluttering this one. Move on.......

I know you are...but what am I? Lol, debate WAS simpler in those days!

 

[Martian2]

If what I posted went 'whhhooooosssshhhhh' over your head, let me know and I will seriously try to make it sssssslllllloooooooowwwwwweeeeeerrrrrr.

Your post would be perfectly legitimate if it was the first time. As I recall, between the original thread and this thread, my estimate is I've seen that exact same diagram and post about 7 to 10 times now. Come on, post something new.

Stop beating us over the head with your message of "information is incomplete and therefore we can draw no conclusions." No one is buying it. Surface, traveling, creeping, and other waves apply equally to the F-22 and J-20.

My posts have been attempts to contrast the known differences in the designs of the F-22, J-20, and F-35 to illuminate the issue of which one is stealthier and why.

 

[houshanghai]

Any resemblance of a story in this videos to a living plot is purely incidental.

 

[grey boy 2]

Your post would be perfectly legitimate if it were the first time. As I recall, between the original thread and this thread, my estimate is I've seen that exact same diagram and post about 7 to 10 times now. Come on, post something new.

Stop beating us over the head with your message of "information is incomplete and therefore we can draw no conclusions." No one is buying it. Surface, traveling, creeping, and other waves apply equally to the F-22 and J-20.

My posts have been attempts to contrast the known differences in the designs of the F-22, J-20, and F-35 to illuminate the issue of which one is stealthier and why.

Actually, he has been posting the same old stuffs for yrs. He might have forgotten we all join in the class of "2009"
Its simply getting so boring and annoying looking at the same old things over and over again="outdated ideology craps and copy and paste from his bible" , perhaps thats what they called "old people symptom" best to avoid him at all cost, he ain't worth our breath period.

 

[amalakas]

Gambit's posts may be old and repetative but on the other hand
some members of this forum are too eager to accept that a given fighter (J-20 in this instance) is God's gift to man.

Just like how martian makes guesttimations on RCS and canard size of the plane (which are both extremely wrong) so does Gambit some times point the obvious.

Why do you have so hard a time seeing this?

RADAR waves are not made out of jelly beans, nor is RADAR detection something that works the way you see in movies.

to pick up an aircraft and detect its presence is one thing, to actually track it to produce a firing solution for a weapon is quite another.

to make a stealth plane is one thing, to make an all aspect stealth plane is quite another.

The US downplayed the ability of Russian L band systems to detect stealth aircraft, they did design the F22 however to have some stealth characteristics in the L band. I am sure they were playing it safe.

The J20 is a great achievement, is it stealthy ? yes, is it enough, we won't know until the day it'll surprise a western made system

 

[krash]

With YOU...Looks like I have to go down to that level.

No need to do it purposefully.......it comes to you naturally. Btw you've been there since long before I ever joined this forum. Iv reasoned with you, tried to make you change your ways, tried to show where you were going wrong, even tried ignoring you, tried letting it go, all with due respect and all to no avail. You just dont get it. Now if the mods are too busy banning Indians then I guess ill stand up myself.

I know you are...but what am I? Lol, debate WAS simpler in those days!

Didnt get that.

Gambit's posts may be old and repetative but on the other hand
some members of this forum are too eager to accept that a given fighter (J-20 in this instance) is God's gift to man.

Just like how martian makes guesttimations on RCS and canard size of the plane (which are both extremely wrong) so does Gambit some times point the obvious.

Why do you have so hard a time seeing this?

RADAR waves are not made out of jelly beans, nor is RADAR detection something that works the way you see in movies.

to pick up an aircraft and detect its presence is one thing, to actually track it to produce a firing solution for a weapon is quite another.

to make a stealth plane is one thing, to make an all aspect stealth plane is quite another.

The US downplayed the ability of Russian L band systems to detect stealth aircraft, they did design the F22 however to have some stealth characteristics in the L band. I am sure they were playing it safe.

The J20 is a great achievement, is it stealthy ? yes, is it enough, we won't know until the day it'll surprise a western made system

My issue is not with him pointing out supposed or legitimate flaws with J-20/T-50/F-22. My issue is with his attitude in this forum. He never lets go any opportunity to troll, flame and derail any Chinese thread. Look at this thread. Its supposed to be about the J-20. Not a lesson in 'principles governing stealth in aircrafts' with hundreds of pages of readings assigned by Mr.Gambit. He can, by all means, open up a new thread on that matter and teach us all that he knows about 'stealth' (Come to think of it, this thread truly is a brilliant idea. You can thank me later for it Mr.Gambit). I know that I am one who would avidly follow that thread. But all that stuff here is seriously annoying, out of place and, dare I say it, derailing the thread. I dont know where the mods go to sleep whenever he comes out. Im sorry mods but this is unacceptable, his demeanor is unacceptable.

A man of his knowledge and standing should have been one of the most beloved of this forum. But instead he is the one due to whom you start phasing out when ever he joins in on any Chinese thread.

 

[ptldM3]

My issue is not with him pointing out supposed or legitimate flaws with J-20/T-50/F-22. My issue is with his attitude in this forum. He never lets go any opportunity to troll, flame and derail any Chinese thread. Look at this thread. Its supposed to be about the J-20. Not a lesson in 'principles governing stealth in aircrafts' with hundreds of pages of readings assigned by Mr.Gambit. He can, by all means, open up a new thread on that matter and teach us all that he knows about 'stealth' (Come to think of it, this thread truly is a brilliant idea. You can thank me later for it Mr.Gambit). I know that I am one who would avidly follow that thread. But all that stuff here is seriously annoying, out of place and, dare I say it, derailing the thread. I dont know where the mods go to sleep whenever he comes out. Im sorry mods but this is unacceptable, his demeanor is unacceptable.

A man of his knowledge and standing should have been one of the most beloved of this forum. But instead he is the one due to whom you start phasing out when ever he joins in on any Chinese thread.

And Martian does not? While Martian calls people trolls he is the instigator. The conversation was about the J-20 but it was Martian that started taking cheap shots at the pak-fa and F-35. What gives him the right to blatantly make claims with out sources and take cheap shots while calling other members trolls for nothing more than challenging his kid claims? Notice most people here including me, Gambit, and amalakas are not taking cheap shots at the J-20, we have not claimed it to not be 'stealth', nor has anyone purposely made any unprovoked attacks against the J-20, instead the conversation is about methods used to determine RCS and about some of the claims Martian makes.

Remember this is the same guy that took cheap shots at the F-35 and pak-fa by claiming its hideous, humps and bumps are poor for 'stealth' at the same time he ignored the fact that the J-20 also had these humps and bumps but when confronted with evidence he claimed that the F-22 has the same and as so the J-20 is on equal footing with the F-22 despite the fact that the J-20's control mechanisms are enormous while the F-22's are barely noticeable.

Also the same guy that claimed radar blocker are poor for 'stealth' but when confronted about Silent Eagle's frontal RCS being equal to the F-35's he went into denial mode by calling Boeing liars. He than kept ignoring the fact that the F-117 also used radar blockers.

His other claims about canards and edge diffraction have all been epic embarrassments on his part.

So who is the one that really derails the thread? Who is the real troll? Who makes up pathetic claims? This kid goes to different forums and makes thread about how un stealthy the pak-fa is, if that is not a pathetic troll I do not know what is.

 

[rcrmj]

And Martian does not? While Martian calls people trolls he is the instigator. The conversation was about the J-20 but it was Martian that started taking cheap shots at the pak-fa and F-35. What gives him the right to blatantly make claims with out sources and take cheap shots while calling other members trolls for nothing more than challenging his kid claims? Notice most people here including me, Gambit, and amalakas are not taking cheap shots at the J-20, we have not claimed it to not be 'stealth', nor has anyone purposely made any unprovoked attacks against the J-20, instead the conversation is about methods used to determine RCS and about some of the claims Martian makes.

Remember this is the same guy that took cheap shots at the F-35 and pak-fa by claiming its hideous, humps and bumps are poor for 'stealth' at the same time he ignored the fact that the J-20 also had these humps and bumps but when confronted with evidence he claimed that the F-22 has the same and as so the J-20 is on equal footing with the F-22 despite the fact that the J-20's control mechanisms are enormous while the F-22's are barely noticeable.

Also the same guy that claimed radar blocker are poor for 'stealth' but when confronted about Silent Eagle's frontal RCS being equal to the F-35's he went into denial mode by calling Boeing liars. He than kept ignoring the fact that the F-117 also used radar blockers.

His other claims about canards and edge diffraction have all been epic embarrassments on his part.

So who is the one that really derails the thread? Who is the real troll? Who makes up pathetic claims? This kid goes to different forums and makes thread about how un stealthy the pak-fa is, if that is not a pathetic troll I do not know what is.

unlike that self proclaimed 'never wrong' gamebit```martian does admit his mistakes some times`

if someone never admits his mistakes and errors then there is no creditability at all....because technology, innovation and science is all about correcting past mistakes and errors`

 

[grey boy 2]

Hmm,talking about taking "Cheap shot"? perhaps someone had forgotten how he even opened up a thread about HOW Chinese J-20 pictures were some PS from a picture of a Russian plane (T-50)?
Wondering who had actually unleashed the "first cheap shot"? wow, "hypocrite to the core".

 

[ptldM3]

unlike that self proclaimed 'never wrong' gamebit```martian does admit his mistakes some times`

if someone never admits his mistakes and errors then there is no creditability at all....because technology, innovation and science is all about correcting past mistakes and errors`

The only times he does that is if he backs himself into a corner and he has no other options, like with the F-35's 'humps and bumps' and the J-20's control mechanisms. He had no other choice but to admit that the J-20 also has 'bumps and humps' but even then it was hardly an admittance since he compared the J-20's control mechanisms to the F-22 and claimed it to be on equal footing--this despite the fact that the J-20's control mechanisms (bumps or humps) are many time larger than the F-22's So even when his nonsense came back to bite him in the rear he tried to weasel his way out. He also, still to this day, has not admitted his bias views of radar blockers despite the fact that Boeing and Lockheed proved that they are very effective. And if he had any honesty he would also acknowledge DSI's to be 'bumps and humps'.

As for Air Power Australia's RCS measurements they are ridiculous, I do hope the readers realize that you can not predict an aircraft's RCS by simply looking at it, as one F-117 engineer put it, “We couldn’t allow even the tiniest imperfection in the fit of the landing gear door, for example, that could triple the airplane’s RCS if it wasn’t precisely flush with the body.” So how does APA know that every panel and bay is exactly flush? How did APA calculate the J-20's RCS when APA does not know the J-20's intake geometry? Did APA ever take into account the J-20's 'humps and dumps' aka the wings control mechanisms‘, or the DSI's which they crucified the F-35 for? How did APA make calculations based off of pictures? I can tell you right now that the exact size, dimensions, geometry is not 100% accurate. How can it be when looking at pictures? It would be foolish to assume that every slope on the J-20 was accurately predicted, every component was to exact dimensions, and every slope and curve was at the correct degree. Did APA take into account eve the minute details such as the rivets on the vertical stabs?

 

[ptldM3]

Hmm,talking about taking "Cheap shot"? perhaps someone had forgotten how he even opened up a thread about HOW Chinese J-20 pictures were some PS from a picture of a Russian plane (T-50)?
Wondering who had actually unleashed the "first cheap shot"? wow, "hypocrite to the core".

Those first pictures were altered and had many inconsistencies that even Chinese members pointed out such as being sliced in half and then being pasted back together which resulted in the rear landing gears being out of place--something like a poor Photoshop--the fact that they were blurry was also suspicious . There is nothing wrong with being skeptical especially when every other week previous to the J-20's arrival there has been fake photoshops. And even fellow Chinese and Pakisanis' were skeptical of the first blury images of the J-20.

After it was established that the pictures were credible I never claimed otherwise, most important I never made cheap claims such as the J-20 is not 'stealthy' or that it is 'junk' but people like Martian made those same claims about the pak-fa.