Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Ultima Thule]

A lot of things wrong with your post.

1. The F-117 was shot down after careful planning and baiting the aircraft. Even then only when it opened its bay.

2. The phones may be made in China, but the designs of ALL phones including Apple, Nokia and other foreign companies come from abroad. It is like someone claiming that since they make LEGO sets like the instructions, they are the master.

Doing this does not mean you have invented or know anything.

3. The LOAN( Low Observable Asymmetric Nozzle) was a precursor program to the F-35's nozzle. essentially it took the idea of reducing the RCS return of the traditional nozzle along with certain heat reduction. Compared to that, the F-22's nozzle is SUPERIOR in both RCS and IR reduction( Although the YF-23 had better IR reduction than that even). At this point, the J-20 has poor IR suppression from its engines compared to the F-22, yet the J-20 is still a prototype undergoing testing so we cannot say the final form. Additionally, the J-20 is NOT a stealth design comparable to the F-22 in all round terms simply because of its design philosophy/compromises. That does not mean that it is not a capable platform, just the idea behind the J-20 looks different to me than that of the F-22 or PAK-FA.

Also, the PL-12 has not yet entered the testing phase beyond dummy carriage.

4. The F-35 has gone beyond the single sensor concept and is essentially the first swarm machine. Its designed to capture information much more rapidly, process it the same and present it to the pilot(warrior) in the best fashion possible. Its Radar, its other electronic sensors along with DAS will ensure that anything more than one F-35 will be deadly to any fighter in the air.

The J-20 by contrast looks much like the F-22 in philosophy. Its designed as a silent sword. The idea is to get close VERY quick to the fight and use information and links from other J-20s to make a quick kill and then run. It is much like the Mig-31 interceptor except it is more stealthy and more manoeuvrable. The J-20 may or may not be the fastest air domination fighter, but it is possibly the one that will accelerate the fastest. Which means it will supercruise faster than the F-22 and PAK-FA, that translate to better range and essentially better kinetic push for all its missiles at the right time.

you are on the spot Mr oscar, that i am trying to prove these stupids

 

[SQ8]

I am a true Pakistani and i am from Karachi but i also believe in ground realities that J-20 is slightly inferior I say slightly inferior to F-22, it has frontal stealth only, i have to say that J-31 is better stealth oriented aircraft than J-20, rear aspect of J-20 is totally unstealth, so Mr Beast please answer my above question than i convince

The Question is of all those powers who are rising and insecure of their own capabilities. Take the JF-17 for instance, it is a cost effective lightweight fighter that has certain good characteristics. But there are a lot of things wrong and delayed with the program along with the aircraft's inherent design limitations. Yet , many(if not most) Pakistanis here think it is the next best thing to the F-35.

The same goes for the J-20. The more I look at it and its design evolution , I am more and more convinced of its fighting potential and tactics. This aircraft may be the best China has produced so far and its frontal stealth is going to be fairly good with its(I am sure) RCS management via canards. It is also going to be very manoeuvrable. But it is not designed to go toe to toe with the F-22. it is essentially a different step in Air combat. The aircraft will be used to deny access over long distances much like the Mig-31 does for the USSR over the north pole. Additionally, it will also be the premier strike aircraft( and I mean in some scenarios better than the F-35) in the region. Its shape and significant RCS reduction will allow it to penetrate a heavy EW environment that the US(and its allies) traditionally train to fight in and deliver a strike into the core successfully.
It has enough manoeuvrability to easily take on previous generation jets and the F-35 as well. But this aircraft is not going to be looking for the WVR fight, rather it looks optimized for the slash and dash. With HOBS systems, full AESA coverage and if I can infer from the most recent prototype, a sensor skin along certain areas as well.

The Fault of the Chinese members here is that they expect the J-20 to be a similar Kung fu fighter(to use the stereotype analogy) like the PAK-FA is.. and the F-22 to quite an extent as well. Instead, in my view the J-20 is more of an aerial assassin. Its designed to run in silently, kill its opponent quickly and leave with the same haste.

The simple fact is that the while the PAK-FA is the leader in manoeuvrability and the J-20 is better in the usage of stealth for its strength...the F-22 embodies the best of both. But then again, the F-22 costs $140 million a piece... a price I do not think the J-20 will cost. In a future scenario, the J-20 will have the numbers advantage over the F-22.. and being a better aerial killer than the F-35. it will have a massive effect on any confrontation.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thank you sir

 

[xunzi]

So why you didn't answer my question because you have no answer and you are speechless kid, go to sleep and enjoy your wet dream

He already answer you. Provide plenty of indirect hint. Just because you have plenty of project and model, such example like Nokia phones, it does not mean Nokia will forever remain on top if a revolutionize smartphone enter the picture like the Iphone. China may already surpass the US in stealth or maybe not. Nobody really know because we don't release information. The only one who really know are the designer and director of the project and unfortunately, they are not allow to talk to the public about it.

 

[Ultima Thule]

He already answer you. Provide plenty of indirect hint. Just because you have plenty of project and model, such example like Nokia phones, it does not mean Nokia will forever remain on top if a revolutionize smartphone enter the picture like the Iphone. China may already surpass the US in stealth or maybe not. Nobody really know because we don't release information. The only one who really know are the designer and director of the project and unfortunately, they are not allow to talk to the public about it.

Yes that the answer i want, we knows nothing about these jets, but just my thought that J-20's rear portion is more prone to radar and infrared detection.

 

[xunzi]

Yes that the answer i want, we knows nothing about these jets, but just my thought that J-20's rear portion is more prone to radar and infrared detection.

All talks are just speculation. J-20 is not in its final stage. We are only half way through it. By the time it reaches the final stage, J-20 could be very different from the 4th prototype now. All talks are mute point.

 

[The SC]

China Claims Innovation in J-20 Weapons Bay Design

April 5, 2013, 1:00 PM
China’s under-development J-20 combat aircraft recently demonstrated its missile-launch mechanism, which the Chinese media tout as a simple but “more efficient” design than that of the American F-22.

J-20 number 2002, one of the two prototypes that have been made known to the public, carried a short-range air-to-air missile (AAM) aft of the air intake. The missile, identified as China’s newly developed PL-10, was shown in a video inside the starboard intake weapons bay before being moved outside the airplane by an ejection system. The door of the bay then closed, leaving the missile outside, but still attached to the airframe.

This arrangement is said to allow the missile to be fired in the shortest time possible. In the F-22 design, the door of its side internal weapons bay has to remain open for the launch of a missile, thus possibly compromising its stealth capability. By contrast, the J-20 could stay stealthy throughout the missile-launch process by keeping the bay door closed.

China Claims Innovation in J-20 Weapons Bay Design | Aviation International News

 

[Beast]

I am a true Pakistani and i am from Karachi but i also believe in ground realities that J-20 is slightly inferior I say slightly inferior to F-22, it has frontal stealth only, i have to say that J-31 is better stealth oriented aircraft than J-20, rear aspect of J-20 is totally unstealth, so Mr Beast please answer my above question than i convince

You are true pakistanis. Yet you trust an American(gambit) who send drone to kill your tribesmen? How ironic?

 

[The SC]

It was only a little over a year ago that the first photos and a video of China’s rumored J-20 stealth fighter surfaced on numerous web sites and blogs. Not too long after, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that Chinese president Hu Jintao openly acknowledged to him to that the Chinese military had indeed just completed a 15-minute test flight. At the time, General He Weirong of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force said that serviceable fleet may be ready as early as 2017.
...
But comparing the J-20 capabilities head to head with the F-22 as a way to gauge threat level may be a flawed approach. Lower production costs may enable China to bolster the size of their fleet to the point where outnumbering the opposition is all it would take to win in aerial combat situations. And according to Wired's David Axe:

Mighty Dragon 2002 does appear to be a step towards an early combat capability. It features several apparent improvements over its sister Mighty Dragon 2001, including stockier landing gear and a redesigned nose that could house an ultra-modern electronically scanned radar. If Beijing chooses to build a squadron of J-20s for early front-line use, they could look a lot like jet number 2002.

He also adds that it's likely that China's approach won't involve undergoing a prolonged testing period as is typical with U.S. military defense technologies. Instead, it's possible that they'll just fast-track the process to put sufficiently operable models into service. In the meantime, any necessary improvements will simply be implemented into the second generation.

Simply put, we might be seeing a combat-ready J-20 fighter sooner than anyone would have expected.

China's stealth fighter gets lethal re-design - SmartPlanet

 

[longlong]

A lot of things wrong with your post.

1. The F-117 was shot down after careful planning and baiting the aircraft. Even then only when it opened its bay.

I had to trust you the explaination why F-117 was shot down you believed if your posted in 1999.

Now is 2014, truth is discovered. The fact is F-117 was failure (its detectable by 1980s radar) and retired fully.

2. The phones may be made in China, but the designs of ALL phones including Apple, Nokia and other foreign companies come from abroad. It is like someone claiming that since they make LEGO sets like the instructions, they are the master.


Doing this does not mean you have invented or know anything.

You misunderstood. Read Xunzi's post.

3. The LOAN( Low Observable Asymmetric Nozzle) was a precursor program to the F-35's nozzle. essentially it took the idea of reducing the RCS return of the traditional nozzle along with certain heat reduction. Compared to that, the F-22's nozzle is SUPERIOR in both RCS and IR reduction( Although the YF-23 had better IR reduction than that even).

The LOAN exhaust is right now fixed on F-16 and testing haven't completed yet ---- one of thousands such testing on pending for F-35. Will it be completed sooner or later? who knows.

F-22's nozzle is superior?
If it is as good as it claimed, why the superior-2D nozzle cannot be found on T-50, J-20/31, F-35, X-47?

Additionally, the J-20 is NOT a stealth design comparable to the F-22 in all round terms simply because of its design philosophy/compromises. That does not mean that it is not a capable platform, just the idea behind the J-20 looks different to me than that of the F-22 or PAK-FA.

Your eyes got problem? Doesn't F-35 have a round nozzle?
J-20 round nozzle is non-stealthy, F-35's round hole is so lovely to you?

4. The F-35 has gone beyond the single sensor concept and is essentially the first swarm machine. Its designed to capture information much more rapidly, process it the same and present it to the pilot(warrior) in the best fashion possible. Its Radar, its other electronic sensors along with DAS will ensure that anything more than one F-35 will be deadly to any fighter in the air.

The J-20 by contrast looks much like the F-22 in philosophy. Its designed as a silent sword. The idea is to get close VERY quick to the fight and use information and links from other J-20s to make a quick kill and then run. It is much like the Mig-31 interceptor except it is more stealthy and more manoeuvrable. The J-20 may or may not be the fastest air domination fighter, but it is possibly the one that will accelerate the fastest. Which means it will supercruise faster than the F-22 and PAK-FA, that translate to better range and essentially better kinetic push for all its missiles at the right time.

No comments. It looks J-20 everything go smoothly, and F-35 is problematic.

 

[gambit]

China Claims Innovation in J-20 Weapons Bay Design

April 5, 2013, 1:00 PM
China’s under-development J-20 combat aircraft recently demonstrated its missile-launch mechanism, which the Chinese media tout as a simple but “more efficient” design than that of the American F-22.

J-20 number 2002, one of the two prototypes that have been made known to the public, carried a short-range air-to-air missile (AAM) aft of the air intake. The missile, identified as China’s newly developed PL-10, was shown in a video inside the starboard intake weapons bay before being moved outside the airplane by an ejection system. The door of the bay then closed, leaving the missile outside, but still attached to the airframe.

This arrangement is said to allow the missile to be fired in the shortest time possible. In the F-22 design, the door of its side internal weapons bay has to remain open for the launch of a missile, thus possibly compromising its stealth capability. By contrast, the J-20 could stay stealthy throughout the missile-launch process by keeping the bay door closed.

China Claims Innovation in J-20 Weapons Bay Design | Aviation International News

That is a dumbass article.

The missile hanging on the outside for how long and its own body does not possibly compromise the aircraft's RCS ?

 

[SQ8]

I had to trust you the explaination why F-117 was shot down you believed if your posted in 1999.

Now is 2014, truth is discovered. The fact is F-117 was failure (its detectable by 1980s radar) and retired fully.


You misunderstood. Read Xunzi's post.


The LOAN exhaust is right now fixed on F-16 and testing haven't completed yet ---- one of thousands such testing on pending for F-35. Will it be completed sooner or later? who knows.

F-22's nozzle is superior?
If it is as good as it claimed, why the superior-2D nozzle cannot be found on T-50, J-20/31, F-35, X-47?



Your eyes got problem? Doesn't F-35 have a round nozzle?
J-20 round nozzle is non-stealthy, F-35's round hole is so lovely to you?



No comments. It looks J-20 everything go smoothly, and F-35 is problematic.

I understand english is not your first language but tr to read again slowly.

1. You have given no proof for that

2. That is all I see in that post. It is a bad analogy he has used to describe China's technological capability

3. Please learn to read slowly and properly. The F-35 uses a developed form of the LOAN nozzle but it is NOT superior to the IR reduction and RCS reduction offered by the F-35's nozzle. Also, the 2D TVC on the F-22 was found sufficient to carry out all manoeuvres that are required by tactical air combat instead of airshow manoeuvres. The F-35 was not required to be as stealthy as the F-22. The issue is not whether the J-20's nozzle is as stealthy as the F-35.. it is NOT as stealthy in terms of IR and RCS as the F-22.

4. Because unlike the F-35, we have ZERO reports from news agencies on the J-20. So if we dont know what is going on, how do we know if everything is going ok with the program?

 

[longlong]

I understand english is not your first language but tr to read again slowly.

Understood English is your 1st language prior of your mother tongue.
Thanks for your kind understanding.

1) You knew it;
2) You're either too slow or too old.
3) We don't know the real story behind the unique F-22 nozzle, e.g. RCS, IR, maintenance hrs/ fly hrs. Even the cruise speed and max speed are classified, the performance of its nozzle is highly suspected.
4) J-20 will be the game changer at the cross point of rising China and declined US.

 

[SQ8]

Understood English is your 1st language prior of your mother tongue.
Thanks for your kind understanding.

1) You knew it;
2) You're either too slow or too old.
3) We don't know the real story behind the unique F-22 nozzle, e.g. RCS, IR, maintenance hrs/ fly hrs. Even the cruise speed and max speed are classified, the performance of its nozzle is highly suspected.
4) J-20 will be the game changer at the cross point of rising China and declined US.

1). You are now running away from a proper argument.
2). You have no argument to present and hence have no intellect other than personal attacks(which means I will ban you from this thread forever).
3) Plenty of books/ journal and publications out there on the topic. So yes we do know a lot of the whole story as compared to the J-20. Your argument looks to fail just on your bias and not on actual knowledge

4). Yes it will be a game changer , there is no doubt to it. Just not how you see it.

That is a dumbass article.

The missile hanging on the outside for how long and its own body does not possibly compromise the aircraft's RCS ?

I think the system is a simple compromise compared to the complex trapeze system of the Raptor. As such, there are lesser moving parts and easier fabrication. Not to mention potentially greater structural strength to the design. But hanging them outside may also mean that the Missiles may not be able to operate in LOAL mode like the AIM-9M and X potentially can.

So it is possible that the Chinese missile needs to have its seeker outside to be used in caged or uncaged mode. It cannot be given targeting data within the confined of the bay and then pop out towards a vector to search via its own seeker.

A simpler explanation may also lie with the design itself, perhaps the Chinese are not looking for a silent WVR kill and know that if they are within WVR their radar signature is already there and compromised. Hence its better to have weapons on rails ready to shoot.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You are true pakistanis. Yet you trust an American(gambit) who send drone to kill your tribesmen? How ironic?

Mr beast, i like (gambit) because his knowledge about aerodynamic and RCS measurement links in his post and by the way did gambit send drone to kill my tribesmen you fool