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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

Can we stop this nonsense? I am ABSOLUTELY SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THE RUSSIAN T50.

Thank Martian, he always derails the thread by bringing up the pak-fa. The only posts i have made in this threads have been rebuttals to Martians twisted views.

J-20 black dragon has also bombarded the thread with pictures of everything from the SU-27 to the F-22, to the F-35 and of course the pak-fa.

Neither Martian nor J-20 Black Dragon will stop their provocative behaviors so if you have a problem report them.
 
No...no, the J-20 is a copy of the J-10 (according to Martians theory). Martian concludes that simlarities between the pak-fa and Flanker definately means that the pak-fa is a copy of the Flanker, even if geometrically they are completely different.

Martian's logic:

J-10 has rear fins, so does J-20
J-10 has DSI, so does J-20.
J-10 has canards , so does J-20.
J-10 has engine curvature, so does J-20.
J-10 has nose entenna, so does J-20.
J-10 is a delta, so is J-20.
J-10 strait fuselage aft of canopy, J-20 same feature.

Therefore the J-20 is a copy of the J-10 (Martian's theory) and has many none-stealthy feature of the J-10 (Again Martian's theory).

You made mistake about J-10, J-10 doesn't have DSI. 611 add that on JF-17 and then on J-10B.

I do agree that J-20 is more similar to J-10 than any other fighters, (it comes from the same designer after all) but anyone with eyes and brains will see the different: J-20 has two engines while J-10 has only one!!!

If that is not a difference big enough to distinct the two models than all the russian/US duel engine fighters are all the same.

FYI 20 is larger than 10.
12948256.jpg
 
There's definitely some design lineage from Su-27 family on the T-50. Su-27 had a very good aerodynamic design, and it makes sense for Russians to incorporate the design to reduce time and risk. I don't know why some Chinese seem to look down on the whole Su-27 family, since China is still developing newer models based on it.
 
J-20 black dragon, some Chinese members here have complained about the off topic rants in this thread which you are mainly responsible for. I Mentioned that you have bombarded the thread with off topic pictures and than you quote me, post more off topic pictures and write some incoherent rant about stealth. Your're a bigger idiot than i thought :lol:
 
There's definitely some design lineage from Su-27 family on the T-50. Su-27 had a very good aerodynamic design, and it makes sense for Russians to incorporate the design to reduce time and risk. I don't know why some Chinese seem to look down on the whole Su-27 family, since China is still developing newer models based on it.

Of course, some similarities are just unavoidable, the F-15 also has many similarities to the F-22 and the J-20 to the J-10, but some people here take it too far.
 
Can we stop this nonsense? I am ABSOLUTELY SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THE RUSSIAN T50.

China has J-20, so let's just talk about the J-20. Post pictures, videos, and I love this bird!

I don't want to talk about the T-50. China has turned down Russia's proposal to co-develop the T-50 so we have NO MORE relationship with that plane. I don't care if it is a 100 gen stealth craft or WWI piece of horse dung. The point is that China does not and will NEVER buy it. Indians are buy the T-50 so leave the analysis to them!

If there is a ever a point where the T-50 and J-20 are competing for export, we can bring up a separate thread. Till this time, we know very little of the J-20, and the T-50 has only finished just that airframe with NOTHING inside being final. So there is no point to discuss it! So don't trash it; don't praise it; leave it!

Please just post J-20 pics and videos and no mas TONTARIA!!!

I agree need the Mods to clean up the thread has turned from J-20 to F-22 and T-50 thread.

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

J-20 black dragon, some Chinese members here have complained about the off topic rants in this thread which you are mainly responsible for. I Mentioned that you have bombarded the thread with off topic pictures and than you quote me, post more off topic pictures and write some incoherent rant about stealth. Your're a bigger idiot than i thought :lol:

J-20black dragon was banned for this before for these things, as one could best put it he is a troll don't respond to him if you feel it's provocative.
 
i hope you are joking, or at least being sarcastic with that comment
disagree.gif

Which part? If it's the latter, the only similarities that the aircraft have is the widely space engines. And intakes that sit below the fuselage. The two intake are geometrically very different, one being semi recessed and canted, the other not, one flaring out outward while the other flaring out inward. I’m beginning to think that the black dragon has probably not even hit puberty and that he probably uses Google translator.
 
Perhaps this thread should be renamed "The J-20 vs. the T-50" thread.

Since it isn't about the J-20 anymore.

And I thought vs. threads and discussions weren't allowed.

I'd be butthurt if mods close this section.
 
Perhaps this thread should be renamed "The J-20 vs. the T-50" thread.

Since it isn't about the J-20 anymore.

And I thought vs. threads and discussions weren't allowed.

I'd be butthurt if mods close this section.

Perhaps Martian should be banned?
 
Up to mods I guess :confused:

I mean this "Martian" fellow is posting T-50 discussions on both the FGFA and the J-20 thread all at the same time :woot:

In two years, I've only received two infractions for arguing with Indians in the World Affairs forum. I have never received a warning or infraction for anything that I have posted in the Chinese sub-forum. You guys can try to get me banned. I wish you luck.

My position has been consistent on all forums. If the mods ask me to leave, I will. It is their forum and if they don't want to read my military insights then I don't have any problems with that.

----------

In this post, I discuss stealth design. It will help you to develop a better understanding. You don't really need to see the original questions, because the answers are mostly self-explanatory.

By the way, for those who want to see only pictures and videos of the J-20 without any analysis or comparison to other stealth fighters, I suggest you open a thread in the multimedia section.

This is a professional forum to enlighten readers on stealth design, not a picture and video forum. All you have to do is go to YouTube for videos on the J-20. You don't need to come here.


----------

Technical reply to issues raised by Angeldemon_007.

1. Su-30 and T-50/Pak-Fa IRST creates a radar signature, because AESA radar is X-band. X-band wavelength is 2.5 (one inch) to 4cm. Also, IRST is a round sphere and not a shaped nose (e.g. duck bill shape/continuous curvature or faceted/diamond shape).

Therefore, X-band radar will detect the Su-30/Pak-Fa IRST. Hence, the Su-30/Pak-Fa is not stealthy.

Citation: HowStuffWorks "How does stealth technology work?"

"How does stealth technology work?
...
Most conventional aircraft have a rounded shape. This shape makes them aerodynamic, but it also creates a very efficient radar reflector. The round shape means that no matter where the radar signal hits the plane, some of the signal gets reflected back:
..."

Zae3a.jpg

Three posts ago, Gambit was arguing the T-50/Pak-Fa IRST probe is like a two-dimensional saw-toothed edge and is therefore stealthy. Do you agree with him? Or does the T-50/Pak-Fa IRST probe look like an excellent round radar reflector to you?

2. Look at the picture above with the rivets. Does it look like a metal-framed canopy to you? Even China's advanced materials science doesn't have the high-strength plastics that you are theorizing. Everyone has to climb the same tech ladder.

The F-22 uses a frameless bubble cockpit canopy. China also developed a frameless bubble cockpit canopy for the J-20. It is highly unlikely that Russia could just leapfrog past the next technological step of a framles bubble cockpit canopy.

3. Look at your picture again (see below). I have drawn the surface area of the fuselage behind the pilot. The T-50/Pak-Fa is much taller and occupies a lot of area. This will strongly reflect radar at many angles.

If you look at other pictures of the F-22 and J-20, you will notice they use continuous curvature to shape the area behind their cockpit canopy. However, when you look at pictures of the T-50/Pak-Fa, you will see two large triangular slabs from the side.

HaqNy.jpg

Compare the small surface area behind the F-22 pilot to the large surface area behind the T-50/Pak-Fa pilot.

4. RULE #1 - never look at cartoons in performing an analysis. Let me show you real photographs of the T-50/Pak-Fa. All of them show there is no S-duct on the T-50/Pak-Fa.

Edr9E.jpg

From the midpoint of the airduct to the midpoint of the engine, it is a straight line. There is no curved duct. The T-50/Pak-Fa engine layout is identical to the Su-30.

T1hMC.jpg

From a lateral view, we will once again draw a line from the midpoint of the airduct to the midpoint of the engine, it is clearly a straight line. There is no curved duct.

5. It has been two years and Sukhoi's T-50/Pak-Fa third prototype looks exactly like the first prototype externally. Unless Sukhoi performs a radical redesign (which increasingly appears unlikely), a straight airduct will mean the T-50/Pak-Fa will be almost as non-stealthy as a Su-30.

When the enemy radar waves bounce off the single-crystal metallic engine fan blades on the T-50/Pak-Fa, the F-22 or J-20 radar screen will light up like a Christmas tree.

6. It has been two years and Sukhoi hasn't been able to wrap the T-50/Pak-Fa engines in RAM cladding. As more years pass, it becomes increasingly unlikely that Sukhoi can fix this problem. I believe it is a cooling issue.

If we keep seeing this exposed metal-engine problem on the next few prototypes then it means Sukhoi can't change the design due to a likely cooling need for the engines.

7. When the T-50/Pak-Fa or Su-30 bay doors are closed during flight, they lie flush against the fuselage. However, due to the non-saw-toothed edges, enemy radar will reflect off the large discontinuities. The F-22, F-35, and J-20 all have saw-toothed bay doors to minimize this RCS problem.

8. Vents are not stealthy, because of radar scattering from edge diffraction.

9. An uneven underside is not stealthy. It creates many new angles for a radar reflection. Australia Air Power wrote a detailed report and criticized the modified F-35 for the "lumps and bumps" along its underside. The original F-35 prototype had a clean and flat underside like the F-22 and J-20.

Due to the need for air-to-air missiles with the development of the J-20, the F-35 underside is a mess and it is less stealthy.

Reference: Assessing Joint Strike Fighter Defence Penetration Capabilities

10. When an enemy radar hits the "back wall" (or intersection between fuselage and airduct), it will produce a nice radar return. This is poor stealth design. This problem exists on both the Su-30 and T-50/Pak-Fa.
 

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