Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[farhan_9909]

why are you guys comparing 2 aircraft at prototype stage

Both Pak fa and J-20 will never face each other nor we dnt knw about the mass produced variant..

 

[Martian2]

Su-30 is not stealthy. Therefore T-50/Pak-Fa is not stealthy.

Everyone agrees the Su-30 is not stealthy. In the following picture, I have identified 10 important non-stealth features of the Su-30. Interestingly, the T-50/Pak-Fa has the exact same 10 non-stealth features.

It seems to me there are only two logical choices. Either you agree with me that the T-50/Pak-Fa is not stealthy. Or you can make the incredible claim that both the T-50 and Su-30 are stealthy. I leave the choice to you.

Su-30 is not stealthy. Here are 10 non-stealth features.

In an interesting coincidence, the T-50/Pak-Fa shares all ten Su-30 non-stealth features.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Just use your eyes.

American stealth fighters look like this.

Russian stealth fighters look like this.

 

[ARCHON]

^^^^

dont worry US and russia will buy J-20 for sure.

 

[ptldM3]

The canards are unimportant, because the main wing and side fuselage (at exactly the right angle) would have reflected that particular incoming radar wave. Except for takeoffs, landings, and dogfights, the J-20 canards will be locked into place at the same level as the main wings. The presence of the canards has a marginal effect.

A few points:


You clearly don’t know jack about edge diffraction.

You just made up some gibberish about the canard lining up with the ‘side fuselage’.

You just made up some nonsense about the canard locking into place (I want a source).

The J-20 mighty drag queen violates your own theory about edge alignment.

Why on earth is there a round LERX in front of the canard? If something like this would be present on the pak-fa you would not be able to shut up about it.

Your perfect-angle problem also applies to the main wings of the F-22 Raptor and T-50/Pak-Fa. You are making the error of comparing apples to oranges.

And quess who brought up the argument, you! When your own bullshit backfires on you, the conversation terns into---’well the F-22 and pak-fa have the same problem’. You are too predictable.

Case into point that same little layman illustration you made about the pak-fa equally applies to the mighty drag queen.

You missed the point of my analysis. The T-50/Pak-Fa's uneven underside (e.g. fuselage and airducts) will create many radar reflections at different angles. This makes the T-50/Pak-Fa very unstealthy.

No you missed the point. The same argument can be made for the mighty drag queen with the illustration of all the protrusions, curvatures, and edges that do not align. These are your criteria not mine.

Also, your point on the small radar reflection from RAM-covered aileron controls applies to all fighters (including the F-22 and T-50/Pak-Fa). Therefore, all planes would have the same deduction. That is why I omit aileron controls from my list. It's tiny and all planes have it. Not worth discussing.

Except that those ‘aileron controls’ on mighty drag queen are many, many, many……many times larger than the ones found on either the F-22 or pak-fa. In other words, the ones on the F-22 and pak-fa are almost not noticeable while the ones on the mighty drag queen are a prominent eye sore.

And here since you have an unhealthy sexual fantasy with posting some made up nonsense about the pak-fa let me return the favor. Actually allow me to rub it in your face.

 

[ptldM3]

Just use your eyes.

American stealth fighters look like this.

Why American stealth fighter? Too ashamed to post pictures of the mighty drag queen?

Russian stealth fighters look like this.

The same Russia fighters that China shamelessly copies

 

[j20blackdragon]

The same Russia fighters that China shamelessly copies

There's nothing wrong with Russian fighters.

Russia makes excellent non-stealth 4th generation fighters, which includes the PAK FA.

 

[ARCHON]

There's nothing wrong with Russian fighters.

Russia makes excellent non-stealth 4th generation fighters, which includes the PAK FA.

There is nothing wrong with Chinese fighters too

China makes excellent copies of russian non stealth 4th genearation fighters, including J-20

 

[oct605032048]

There is nothing wrong with Chinese fighters too

China makes excellent copies of russian non stealth 4th genearation fighters, including J-20

Are you blind? Or you simply don't have brain.

 

[ARCHON]

Are you blind? Or you simply don't have brain.

ask ur fellowman who suits the description u posted...

 

[IndoUS]

Are you blind? Or you simply don't have brain.

You can say the same thing to your dear Chinese friends. Who can't see the same mistakes in their on J20 "drag queen."

 

[ptldM3]

There is nothing wrong with Chinese fighters too

China makes excellent copies of russian non stealth 4th genearation fighters, including J-20

No...no, the J-20 is a copy of the J-10 (according to Martians theory). Martian concludes that simlarities between the pak-fa and Flanker definately means that the pak-fa is a copy of the Flanker, even if geometrically they are completely different.

Martian's logic:

J-10 has rear fins, so does J-20
J-10 has DSI, so does J-20.
J-10 has canards , so does J-20.
J-10 has engine curvature, so does J-20.
J-10 has nose entenna, so does J-20.
J-10 is a delta, so is J-20.
J-10 strait fuselage aft of canopy, J-20 same feature.

Therefore the J-20 is a copy of the J-10 (Martian's theory) and has many none-stealthy feature of the J-10 (Again Martian's theory).

 

[amalakas]

i want to make clear to the Chinese members that it is not the J-20 we have problem with, it is martians unhealthy fascination with it that is the problem

 

[j20blackdragon]

Bill Sweetman:

The big new feature of the T-50 is stealth. The aircraft that flew today is a prototype - and it does not show visible features like a frameless canopy and panel alignment that you'd expect on a production aircraft. Other not-very-stealthy-looking features include the gaps around the inlet (compare the YF-23) and a spherical infrared search and track housing in front of the windshield. And, of course, the nozzles are round. But it has a chined forebody, edge alignment and (probably) inlet line-of-sight blockage and internal weapons.

Apparently the designers and systems analysts have looked at the thorny question of "how much stealth do we want to pay for?" and have come up with a different answer than the F-22 designers. The fact that the armed forces of potential adversaries don't have S-300 and S-400 missiles may have something to do with that answer.

T-50: A Preliminary Analysis

Bill Sweetman:

The compressor face of a jet engine is one of the least stealthy parts of an airplane. Not only will the whirling blades, at some point, reflect radar energy directly back at whoever is looking for you, but the shape and rotational rate will identify you, because computers can count very, very fast.

Step 1 in dealing with this problem is to coat the inlet duct with radar absorbent material, because a lot of radar energy bounces off the duct wall several times on the way in and out again. High-level stealth, though, means physically blocking the line of sight with a "serpentine" duct (which is done on the F-22, JSF and Typhoon). But that can take up a lot of space, particularly with big engines, and isn't practical for a stealth retrofit or on some new designs.

The Super Hornet, for example, has short inlet ducts so line-of-sight blockage by curvature isn't practical. The solution was to install a blocker in the inlet duct - looking down the duct, you see what looks like a compressor face, but isn't. It's a fixed composite structure, RAM-coated. And of course any stray electrons that do make it through the blocker and hit the compressor have to make it out through the blocker again. Problem: what bends electron flux also bends airflow, so you can get losses.

PAK-FA Secrets Via YouTube

David A Fulghum, Maxim Pyadushkin and Douglas Barrie:

“It is apparent that more concern has been paid to shaping, but there are still many surface intersections and flight-test probes that will [increase the radar] signature,” says a senior U.S. Air Force officer involved in development of the F-117 and F-35. “In addition, we need to understand the mechanics of the very large inlets to determine how and if engine [radar reflection] blockage is achieved. And those wing leading-edge devices present a challenge for signature control.”

The prototype has a number of features that are not stealthy, including the infrared-search-and-track ball on the nose, the canopy frame, gaps around the inlets, and various unshielded intakes and grilles.

Major Work Ahead On T-50 Stealth Fighter | AVIATION WEEK

 

[conworldus]

Can we stop this nonsense? I am ABSOLUTELY SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THE RUSSIAN T50.

China has J-20, so let's just talk about the J-20. Post pictures, videos, and I love this bird!

I don't want to talk about the T-50. China has turned down Russia's proposal to co-develop the T-50 so we have NO MORE relationship with that plane. I don't care if it is a 100 gen stealth craft or WWI piece of horse dung. The point is that China does not and will NEVER buy it. Indians are buy the T-50 so leave the analysis to them!

If there is a ever a point where the T-50 and J-20 are competing for export, we can bring up a separate thread. Till this time, we know very little of the J-20, and the T-50 has only finished just that airframe with NOTHING inside being final. So there is no point to discuss it! So don't trash it; don't praise it; leave it!

Please just post J-20 pics and videos and no mas TONTARIA!!!