Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Manticore]

It is matter of survival PAF to have 5th generation fighter
Otherwise no body can fight with SWORDS, some advancment is needed

there are 2 kinds of 5th gen planes.. multirole f35 and air superiority f22.
in the brazilian mrca competetion, rafale was ahead of f35... even if f35 is better , its not cost effective as you have to pay double for only 15 percent increased performance.
f22 is a different matter.. pakistan cant afford its maintance let alone buy it.

if fc20 become equavalent to esa rafale and put into service by beefing their no. upto 200 and jf17 also upto 200, then the indian mrca, mca, su30 will have a tough time.

secondly along with spada2000, we should get the chinese version of s400/3oo airdefence batteries.
The HongQi-9/FD-2000 reportedly combines elements "borrowed" from Russia's S-300 and America's MIM-104 Patriot

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes...ms/HQ-915-and-RF-9-HHQ-9-and-S-300-China.html
thirdly paf does not have the money for r&d.. let it be done by wealthy countries.. we will do re later if china doesnt already have it!

 

[jalip]

why we are not going for s 300/ft 2000 we need to have them for the safety of our strategic locations If its true that china is producing ft2000 we should go for it

 

[SBD-3]

why we are not going for s 300/ft 2000 we need to have them for the safety of our strategic locations If its true that china is producing ft2000 we should go for it

In October 2003, it was reported that China had closed a deal with its neighbor, Pakistan, to supply the latter with an unspecified number of FT-2000 missiles to counter India’s early warning capabilities. The China-Pakistan deal followed India’s own arrangement with Israel and Russia to install three Israeli Phalcon AWACS on Ilyushin Il-76 freighter aircraft, thus giving it an airborne early warning system. According to various news sources, shortly after India announced its acquisition of the Phalcon radars, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the head of Pakistan’s air force, visited China and conveyed Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s wish to purchase an unspecified number of FT-2000s.

http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.20/system_detail.asp
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/14206-ft-2000-pakistans-air-defense.html

 

[sancho]

there are 2 kinds of 5th gen planes.. multirole f35 and air superiority f22.
in the brazilian mrca competetion, rafale was ahead of f35... even if f35 is better , its not cost effective as you have to pay double for only 15 percent increased performance.
f22 is a different matter.. pakistan cant afford its maintance let alone buy it.

In every gen the were aircrafts mainly designed for air superiority (SU27, EF, F22) and some mainly for multi role (F16, Rafale, F35), so that is nothing special. The advantage of 5. gen fighters is stealth (or very very low RCS) especially in BVR combats! They should be clearly better than any 4th or 4.5 gen fighter and I think the performance in that field will be much better than only 15%. Things will be different when they are WVR, then an EF should handle a F35 too. It will depend on things like t/w ratio, maeuverability, radar and missiles and I doubt that the F35 will be better in all this points. F22 instead has not only the advantage of stealth, but is also a very good air superiority fighter. High t/w ratio and supercruise capabilities, 3D TVC + the combination of JHMCS, latest radar and missiles gives it a clear edge in air combats.

Hard to say if J10B could be equal to Rafale, because most of the capabilities are unknown. But with two 90 KN engines (if UAE pays for it), some of the best avionics in the world and Meteor missile, Rafale will keep some advantages and the EF seems to be even better than Rafale in air combats. MKI in it's present form will surley get some trouble, but 5. gen fighters are clearly no match!

 

[PAFAce]

F-22 is an Air Dominance fighter. It is much more than an Air Superiority fighter. Also, multi-role fighters have not existed for long. I believe the British Tornado was the original MRCA, with the F-16 solidigyint their importance. You didn't have aircraft designed to achieve multiple goals before 4th Generation.

Secondly, strategy is based on measures and counter measures. Any threat posed by the India MRCA will be rightly countered when the time arrives. Beyond that, there is nothing much to say. No MMRCA or FC-20 for at least 4 years, and no Indian 5th gen capability for at least 10, so let's stop speculating already.

 

[sadiqams]

seems like a good fighter

 

[Munir]

Well, there is a simple thumb rule. The US had the old outdated tanks during WW2. The Germans had their tigers... Better, complex and expensive. Yet they lost cause if quantity rules then no one gives a s-h-i-t about quality...

The US an have the F22 but sofar they only invaded and terrorized weakened souvereign nations... Well, in case of China I read about stupid remarks that the only reason they will not win it cause they will have not enough planes/missiles/fuel... I think that it is a bit overestimated from something that has software crashes every 90 minutes... And I doubt whether they can use their sats and communications and whether they risk to bully someone that really can nuke their frontyard...

India and Pakistan do not need an cannot afford latest. Both have good experience and have fought more and tougher battles then the average... Both have weapons that are and will hurt the opponent.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, there is a simple thumb rule. The US had the old outdated tanks during WW2. The Germans had their tigers... Better, complex and expensive. Yet they lost cause if quantity rules then no one gives a s-h-i-t about quality...

The US an have the F22 but sofar they only invaded and terrorized weakened souvereign nations... Well, in case of China I read about stupid remarks that the only reason they will not win it cause they will have not enough planes/missiles/fuel... I think that it is a bit overestimated from something that has software crashes every 90 minutes... And I doubt whether they can use their sats and communications and whether they risk to bully someone that really can nuke their frontyard...

India and Pakistan do not need an cannot afford latest. Both have good experience and have fought more and tougher battles then the average... Both have weapons that are and will hurt the opponent.

Hi,


Wish it was as simple as that---!!!

 

[SBD-3]

India and Pakistan do not need an cannot afford latest. Both have good experience and have fought more and tougher battles then the average... Both have weapons that are and will hurt the opponent.

Well untill we have arms race b/w the countries expect every thins

 

[sancho]

Well, there is a simple thumb rule. The US had the old outdated tanks during WW2. The Germans had their tigers... Better, complex and expensive. Yet they lost cause if quantity rules then no one gives a s-h-i-t about quality...

But where is the advantage of quantity if you can't see (detect) your opponent? He can bring himself in the better position and will always have the first shot, so even a smaller number of F22 can take out a larger number of J10 right?

 

[Munir]

But where is the advantage of quantity if you can't see (detect) your opponent? He can bring himself in the better position and will always have the first shot, so even a smaller number of F22 can take out a larger number of J10 right?

Well, the idea is that you can see if you have the numbers... Right? The plane is not invisible nor cloaking... If it enters wvr then it is as good as non stealth with same weapons or size... And there are ways to get into WVR. But since I do not want to share everything I provide only known info to you.

In vietnam era they had the wheel... They had topcover... They had some other tactics. Now, they have more. Why do you think they suddenly add IRIS on almost every plane?

 

[Gucci Juice]

what i dont understand is why everyone here says the j-10b is comparable to the f-16, ef, and rafael. it doesn't make any sense

the f-16, ef, and rafael all weigh similar to the j-10 +-1000 lbs, however ALL of them have more thrust, giving them more power, and a higher altitude, more weapons load, and most importantly better wvr performance compared to the j-10b.

and as for the 3d tvc j-10 is supposed to have, i highly doubt it for a few reasons

1. its expensive
2. it costs a lot more to maintain

and the aesa may not even be an aesa but a pesa since china wont possess aesa technology of its own for another 10 years by my estimate.

and by the time the j-10b actually does come in 2015 the rafael will have 90 kn engines with tvc, the ef will have tvc, and the f-16 will be replaced by the f-35 not to mention the electronics will have advanced another 5 years.

and the j-10b being comparable to the mki is just a dream, why?

1. the j-10b's engines do not provide it enough power for its radar to have same range as mki
2. the mki's fuel load is way way higher allowing more endurance in wvr
3. the mki carres way more stuff
4. the mki has more room for upgrades/more ew equipment
5. the mki has higher tvr and more performance
6. by 2015 the mki will have supercruise, aesa, and reduced rcs and this has been comfirmed.

 

[Munir]

Yep, and by 2015 you will have 500 LCA's... Dream on Gucciboy.

 

[maverick2009]

Munir.

The statement re SU30MKI upgrade is true.

The Indians with Russian help are already working on RCS reduction and the IBRIS AESA will inducted into mki plus new ELECTRONICS

The russians/ indians are calling this " Smart skin "

The one thing i cannot confirm how low the RCS will become.

This news is being reported from PARIS AIR SHOW SEE hyperlink below

Developing the ‘Smart Skin’ concept for Su-30MKI - Military Photos

 

[Munir]

The same discussion about MKI being stealthier is on SDF... And I posted the intake copied from BRF... And you know what? It is impossible to make that stealthier...