Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[SBD-3]

But Indian can do any thing if they can compare LCA with F-22 then any thing is possible

 

[Jako]

But Indian can do any thing if they can compare LCA with F-22 then any thing is possible

yeah right.....and suddenly j10 disappears from the thread.......wait a day or so,and jf17,mig29,jaguars,f35,rafale etc would be dumped in it as well!

 

[Munir]

Well, I have to agree with that some people tend to believe that LCA is getting only overclassed by f22. Let us forget those stories and move on. I think we have to wait to see first pics with real BVR's on both (jf17/LCA) planes...

 

[SBD-3]

ya moving with the spirit
munir bahi do you have ny news on navalized version of Thunder there re roumers about it also its intended customers and utility
thanks a million

 

[MZUBAIR]

Hai, wt abt the cost of J-10B.
Did Pakistan already paid for that.

I know JF-17 is on installments.

 

[Gucci Juice]

Munir u are right about design change u cant change the design but u can add new paint or composites to reduce rcs and also add a jammer reducing it further. And vy 2015 it will be in service for 15 plus years and due for upgrade which will include thpse things and the proof for this is that two mkis were sent to irkut to undergo upgrades to fire brahmos but itll take two years thats too long for a simple thing like that

 

[SBD-3]

Hai, wt abt the cost of J-10B.
Did Pakistan already paid for that.

I know JF-17 is on installments.

41Millians USD fly away

 

[Munir]

Munir u are right about design change u cant change the design but u can add new paint or composites to reduce rcs and also add a jammer reducing it further. And vy 2015 it will be in service for 15 plus years and due for upgrade which will include thpse things and the proof for this is that two mkis were sent to irkut to undergo upgrades to fire brahmos but itll take two years thats too long for a simple thing like that

Composites do not decrease RCS. I think that it is something written by someone who hardly understands radar principles. If you add composites and the radar passes through then you have a bigger problem cause everything behind the composites needs to be redesigned in a very inefficient way to reduce RCS... It is all about refelction directions and changes in curves.

About RAM... Well. I wish you luck in adding ram on engine blades... Or radar dish... Or deflectors or airflow mechanics...

 

[gambit]

Composites do not decrease RCS. I think that it is something written by someone who hardly understands radar principles. If you add composites and the radar passes through then you have a bigger problem cause everything behind the composites needs to be redesigned in a very inefficient way to reduce RCS... It is all about refelction directions and changes in curves.

About RAM... Well. I wish you luck in adding ram on engine blades... Or radar dish... Or deflectors or airflow mechanics...

I will correct that a bit. Composites fall under the classification materials and materials do have a direct effect on the total RCS value of a body. Radar absorbent materials (RAM) are essentially composites. The primary consideration for an RCS value is body shaping but also because different materials do have slightly different radar absorbent capabilities, materials can and do either add or decrease to that value.

An FYI -- We detect birds by their beaks more than by their bodies. Feathers are more radar absorbent than people think, and the bird's roundedness are natural radar behavior influence. The easiest birds to detect are those with great big honkers like pelicans.

 

[Arsalan]

I will correct that a bit. Composites fall under the classification materials and materials do have a direct effect on the total RCS value of a body. Radar absorbent materials (RAM) are essentially composites. The primary consideration for an RCS value is body shaping but also because different materials do have slightly different radar absorbent capabilities, materials can and do either add or decrease to that value.

An FYI -- We detect birds by their beaks more than by their bodies. Feathers are more radar absorbent than people think, and the bird's roundedness are natural radar behavior influence. The easiest birds to detect are those with great big honkers like pelicans.

sir perhaps it can be said from your post that:

1. the nose or the tip of the plane is a key factor of RCS
2. using better radar absorbrnt material and stealthier design of the nose can add alot good to the planes stealth feature.

can you kindly clarify the confusion or have i got it right!

regards!

 

[sancho]

Well, the idea is that you can see if you have the numbers... Right? The plane is not invisible nor cloaking... If it enters wvr then it is as good as non stealth with same weapons or size... And there are ways to get into WVR. But since I do not want to share everything I provide only known info to you.

You can see if you have the numbers? It is invisible in BVR and even WVR how should a J10 counter the better t/w ratio, JHMCS and AI9X?

In vietnam era they had the wheel... They had topcover... They had some other tactics. Now, they have more. Why do you think they suddenly add IRIS on almost every plane?

Are we still talking about J10 engaging 5. gen fighter?

 

[gambit]

sir perhaps it can be said from your post that:

1. the nose or the tip of the plane is a key factor of RCS
2. using better radar absorbrnt material and stealthier design of the nose can add alot good to the planes stealth feature.

can you kindly clarify the confusion or have i got it right!

regards!

The frontal aspect, or 'nose on' view, of ANY aircraft has the lowest RCS value. Overall, the entire aircraft's RCS value is an average from all aspects: front, top, bottom, sides and rear. So it is incorrect that the 'nose on' view is a key factor of RCS. The main reason why RAM is installed on leading edges is because the attacking aircraft is heading straight for the radar, or whatever it is that the radar is tasked defending.

 

[gambit]

Well, there is a simple thumb rule. The US had the old outdated tanks during WW2. The Germans had their tigers... Better, complex and expensive. Yet they lost cause if quantity rules then no one gives a s-h-i-t about quality...

But where is the advantage of quantity if you can't see (detect) your opponent? He can bring himself in the better position and will always have the first shot, so even a smaller number of F22 can take out a larger number of J10 right?

Well, the idea is that you can see if you have the numbers... Right? The plane is not invisible nor cloaking... If it enters wvr then it is as good as non stealth with same weapons or size... And there are ways to get into WVR. But since I do not want to share everything I provide only known info to you.

In vietnam era they had the wheel... They had topcover... They had some other tactics. Now, they have more. Why do you think they suddenly add IRIS on almost every plane?

That is not a very convincing argument in favor of quantity over quality. Tanks cannot reduce their visibility by manipulating visible spectrum eletromagnetic waves impacting their bodies. Whereas the F-22 and its brethens are able to influence the behavior of the non-visible freqs to reduce their electronic signatures. Ground battles are two dimensional. Air battles are three dimensional, making target detection problematic in the visible spectrum, hence to need to detect aircrafts using non-visible spectrum freqs. Saturating one's airspace with visible detectors -- pilots -- in order to force the F-22 into visual range battles is not feasible -- money -- and this is presuming that the F-22 is already inside one's airspace. But even if it is somehow logistically possible to have such a saturation of coverage, several F-22s outside of one's airspace will be able to shoot down aircrafts to create gaps so that other 'stealth' aircrafts will slip through.

As The Borg says -- Resistance is futile.

Composites do not decrease RCS. I think that it is something written by someone who hardly understands radar principles. If you add composites and the radar passes through then you have a bigger problem cause everything behind the composites needs to be redesigned in a very inefficient way to reduce RCS... It is all about refelction directions and changes in curves.

About RAM... Well. I wish you luck in adding ram on engine blades... Or radar dish... Or deflectors or airflow mechanics...

Composite materials intending to reduce RCS do not 'passes through' radar signals. Do refrain from making comments like this else it would be revealing as to who really do not understand basic radar principles.

 

[Arsalan]

so what is the debate about. no one says that the J10 is meant to take on the F22!! they are different planes. for the F22 the programme is of JXX. if J10 was to be on par with F22 then there would not be any 5th generation programme. we all agree to this.
but
yes we in the same manner it is also true that J10 can take out any othe 4 or 4.5 generaton plane and many people try to disagree with this fact! i do not mean to say that the J10 will out power anyother plane but that it will not be out powered by any other! it will be an even money bet but as i said certain members try to mak epoint that the J10 cannot even stand a chance against the LCA or the Su30! perhaps it is posts like these that flame up the forum!

all in all we can say that J10 is a true 4.5 gneration plane able to dominate the air!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

so what is the debate about. no one says that the J10 is meant to take on the F22!! they are different planes. for the F22 the programme is of JXX. if J10 was to be on par with F22 then there would not be any 5th generation programme. we all agree to this.
but
yes we in the same manner it is also true that J10 can take out any othe 4 or 4.5 generaton plane and many people try to disagree with this fact! i do not mean to say that the J10 will out power anyother plane but that it will not be out powered by any other! it will be an even money bet but as i said certain members try to mak epoint that the J10 cannot even stand a chance against the LCA or the Su30! perhaps it is posts like these that flame up the forum!

all in all we can say that J10 is a true 4.5 gneration plane able to dominate the air!

regards!

I wont say that J-10 cant take on F-22 if a falcon can take out a raptor J-10 can do that aswell.
Now raptor has become a big problem for US we all know its a tactical fighter and no other fighter can even come close.
US having publicized all this created big problems for it self like just wonder an F-22 is downed by a fighter that would creat voices in US about the hundreds of billions spent on development and Maintainence of this "unmatchable" AC.US doesnt put forward Raptor against any other AC nor did they use it in Iraq War why? because the whole program would be ruined if a loop hole was detected against it.
LHM Co engaged more than a thousand sub contractors on this project so the quality management would be a real issue. I mean 44.5K USD for every hour of flight aaah its a sitting duck kept just for showcase of advancement.
(any contrary views welcomed)