Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[kuge]

A formation of J-10C armed with a deadly payload of PL10E & PL15. Missiles.

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how come the engines are AL-31?

 

[siegecrossbow]

how come the engines are AL-31?

They didn’t start using WS-10 until the middle of the 4th batch.

 

[kursed]

There is NO J-10D and by the way, China is already "buying in bulk a J10C with a chinese engine" namely the WS-10B and even more from what we hear, the Pakistani J-10Cs lack certain systems due to budget issues. As such it the PLAAF ones are already more capable.

Deino, other than export version limitations, PAF J-10s will not lack any particular subsystems. This is absolutely certain.

 

[Deino]

Deino, other than export version limitations, PAF J-10s will not lack any particular subsystems. This is absolutely certain.

In fact that statement surprised me a lot when it was first mentioned; do you have any idea who noted/claimed this first?

 

[untitled]

Does the induction of WS-10 powered J-10s also mean that any future versions of JF-17s (if any) will also be powered by WS-10s?

 

[FuturePAF]

There is a big advantage in PAF operating 1 platform that China also operates. It means war time attritions can be easier to replace and emergencies deliveries can be done quickly.

This can only be the case if PAF version is the same as the Chinese variant. So - if PAF is getting the J10, then are both sides working on a common standard that meets both their needs and possibiliy one based off the avonics of the JF17 Block III as the core. ie J10D ?

China has suggested that PAF not make to many custom requirements, in China's case they are thinking of the situation when they provided F7PGs on an emergency basis during the 2000's standoff with India ...... ( and a lesson that PAF has forgotten about ?? ).

China will also buy in bulk a J10D with a chinese engine, as will Pakistan and it will be common version that will allow both air arms to inter-operate easier(eg over Kashmir ) and also provide an emergency/wartime pipleline to the PAF for attrition losses ...

This is my theory - but the only one that seems logical and meets the needs of both PAF and China .

That is a key necessity if interoperability or replacement of units lost due to attrition. I have always suggested one reason PAF should get the J-10C is because it could lease a large number in the event of a conflict breaking out. Perhaps train extra pilots for this eventuality, or cross train JF-17 pilots on the J-10, so that in the event of war, large numbers of J-10s can be flown to Hotan, and ferried over to make up the numerical differences.

the new IAF chief recently stated that IAF squadron numbers won’t exceed 35 for quite some time. Instead of the PAF buying more than 2-4 squadrons of J-10s, it could have an agreement to lease J-10s from China in the event of war. Spending the money saved on the economy or Project AZM.

Does the induction of WS-10 powered J-10s also mean that any future versions of JF-17s (if any) will also be powered by WS-10s?

WS-10 wouldn’t fit the JF-17, but with more modern engines coming out of China, eventually the WS-19 maybe worth installing once it matures based on WS-10C/WS-15 engine technology, possibly by the end of the decade.

 

[Deino]

Does the induction of WS-10 powered J-10s also mean that any future versions of JF-17s (if any) will also be powered by WS-10s?

No, the engine is too wide or the JF-17's fuselage too slim

 

[kursed]

In fact that statement surprised me a lot when it was first mentioned; do you have any idea who noted/claimed this first?

I believe the statement originated from the Chinese forums / Weibo, but knowing how hard negotiations were from both sides on the deal, can say that it was just misinformation - at best.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Does the induction of WS-10 powered J-10s also mean that any future versions of JF-17s (if any) will also be powered by WS-10s?

You can't shove a high thrust engine into a small fighter aircraft.

 

[mdmm]

Newspaper comparison of Chinese J-10CE (the foreign trade export version of the J-10C) for Pakistan and French fighter jets Rafale ::

https://inf.news/en/military/33eba5ac612ae72607c94af5b343dfda.html

"" According to its air show brochure, the J-10CE has a fuselage length of 17.3 meters, a fuselage height of 4.8 meters, and a wingspan of 11.5 meters on both sides. The actual maximum flight altitude can reach 15,000 meters. The maximum flight speed reaches 1500km/h, the combat radius is 1250km, and the fully loaded takeoff weight reaches 28 tons.
In contrast, the Rafale fighter is smaller than the J-10, with a fuselage length of 15.3 meters, a fuselage height of 5.34 meters, and a wingspan of 10.9 meters on both sides. The actual flight ceiling can be It reaches 15,000 meters, the maximum flight speed reaches 3062.5 km/h, the combat radius is 1093-1852 kilometers, and the full take-off weight reaches 21.5 tons.
Larger size, the weapon design of the J-10 is more advantageous than the Rafale. For example, the J-10 is equipped with active phased array radar, and the RBE-2AA active phased array radar of the Great Rafale fighter , The actual detection range is better than gusts. In air combat, the J-10CE has the advantage of situational awareness and weapon orientation that the Rafale fighter can't match in the line-of-sight combat—the helmet-mounted display. The Rafale fighter-equipped headset can only be equipped in the F4 batch a few years later.

Your expert comments ??

 

[world of power]

https://inf.news/en/military/33eba5ac612ae72607c94af5b343dfda.html

Your expert comments ??

UNLIKELY based on so far;; First, such trade NEVER done for the decades although it always rumors since 2008 (Chengdu J-10 makes public debut at Zhuhai air show | News | Flight Global); many reported that china has long requested pakistan to pay at least $40M each J10 but pakistan rejected it Second, it is another rumor-style-report from indian media without any evidence; still we NEVER see any active progression from china like manufacturing export version of J10, training foreign pilots, or any implementing movements Third, pakistan is currently under financial crisis desperately looking for monetary helps from its neighbor countries or IMF; it currently spends about $8B for its annual defense budget but such jet acquisition project costs at least over $1B; overall pakistan has NO money and it CAN'T pay such money for the single project

 

[kungfugymnast]

Newspaper comparison of Chinese J-10CE (the foreign trade export version of the J-10C) for Pakistan and French fighter jets Rafale ::

https://inf.news/en/military/33eba5ac612ae72607c94af5b343dfda.html

"" According to its air show brochure, the J-10CE has a fuselage length of 17.3 meters, a fuselage height of 4.8 meters, and a wingspan of 11.5 meters on both sides. The actual maximum flight altitude can reach 15,000 meters. The maximum flight speed reaches 1500km/h, the combat radius is 1250km, and the fully loaded takeoff weight reaches 28 tons.
In contrast, the Rafale fighter is smaller than the J-10, with a fuselage length of 15.3 meters, a fuselage height of 5.34 meters, and a wingspan of 10.9 meters on both sides. The actual flight ceiling can be It reaches 15,000 meters, the maximum flight speed reaches 3062.5 km/h, the combat radius is 1093-1852 kilometers, and the full take-off weight reaches 21.5 tons.
Larger size, the weapon design of the J-10 is more advantageous than the Rafale. For example, the J-10 is equipped with active phased array radar, and the RBE-2AA active phased array radar of the Great Rafale fighter , The actual detection range is better than gusts. In air combat, the J-10CE has the advantage of situational awareness and weapon orientation that the Rafale fighter can't match in the line-of-sight combat—the helmet-mounted display. The Rafale fighter-equipped headset can only be equipped in the F4 batch a few years later.

Your expert comments ??

The speed 3000kmh is too exaggerated. Both J-10C and rafale aerodynamic is not designed for speed but more towards low speed maneuverability. This is why both can't reach Mach 2, only max 1.8+ like F/A-18E.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The speed 3000kmh is too exaggerated. Both J-10C and rafale aerodynamic is not designed for speed but more towards low speed maneuverability. This is why both can't reach Mach 2, only max 1.8+ like F/A-18E.

J-10A could reach Mach 2.0 but the high speed performance has taken a hit with B and C variants. That said, 4th gen fighters fly much slower when carrying external load. The F-15 could reach Mach 2.45 but rarely exceeds 2.0 during normal operation.

 

[MH.Yang]

Does the induction of WS-10 powered J-10s also mean that any future versions of JF-17s (if any) will also be powered by WS-10s?

RD93 is a medium thrust engine and WS10 is a high thrust engine. The huge difference of thrust will lead to the disorder of aerodynamic layout, and finally reduce the combat effectiveness of the fighter.
India once forcibly installed AL31F for MIG27, which finally led to the decline of fighter performance. Britain's replacement of the F4k engine also led to a decline in fighter performance.

So if you want to replace the WS10 with JF17, the aerodynamic layout, inlet and rear fuselage of JF17 will have to be modified. This is tantamount to redesigning a fighter. Moreover, JF17 using WS10 will no longer be a light fighter, but a medium fighter at the same level as F16 and Rafale. This will lead to a significant increase in aircraft manufacturing costs.

 

[jupiter2007]

RD93 is a medium thrust engine and WS10 is a high thrust engine. The huge difference of thrust will lead to the disorder of aerodynamic layout, and finally reduce the combat effectiveness of the fighter.
India once forcibly installed AL31F for MIG27, which finally led to the decline of fighter performance. Britain's replacement of the F4k engine also led to a decline in fighter performance.

So if you want to replace the WS10 with JF17, the aerodynamic layout, inlet and rear fuselage of JF17 will have to be modified. This is tantamount to redesigning a fighter. Moreover, JF17 using WS10 will no longer be a light fighter, but a medium fighter at the same level as F16 and Rafale. This will lead to a significant increase in aircraft manufacturing costs.

Nicely explained to the newbie.