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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

I asked a concern Tech in Pakistan about getting birds from China. He told me
that, many people are trained to fly Chinese birds and ,
""PAF tech are waiting to receive J-10 c jet fighters, any time """

I do not know, what that mean.
 
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I asked a concern Tech in Pakistan about getting birds from China. He told me
that, many people are trained to fly Chinese birds and ,
""PAF tech are waiting to receive J-10 c jet fighters, any time """

I do not know, what that mean.


Just another hint that "confirms" the already semi-official rumour, taht the PAF might get J-10Cs soon.
 
Yes my sources are sharing anytime after Nov this year or may be by March. Sq 7 Bandits are to be equipped with J10C.
The second squardon is rumored to be raised somewhere in Balochiatan, most likely new PAF cantonment in Turbut ..
 
Just another hint that "confirms" the already semi-official rumour, taht the PAF might get J-10Cs soon.

The contract has been signed months ago and the fighters are under construction in CAS now, all above are from 杨基跟施佬.
BTW,the fighter that purchased by PAF will be a cost-down version==青春版 probeblely,Due to the lack of procurement funds.And these fighters will powered by WS-10 serise engines.
 
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The military commentators are saying the price of J-10C that is similar to ones used by PLAAF is a bit too high for Pakistan if many units are to be purchased. Therefore the final sold version will be reduced in price. Probably meaning some certain systems are removed or exchanged with less expensive ones.
 
The contract has been signed months ago and the fighters are under construction in CAS now, all above are from 杨基跟施佬.
BTW,the fighter that purchased by PAF will be a cost-down version==青春版 probeblely,Due to the lack of procurement funds.And these fighters will powered by WS-10 serise engines.

If their show gets shutdown then we know who to blame.
 
The military commentators are saying the price of J-10C that is similar to ones used by PLAAF is a bit too high for Pakistan if many units are to be purchased. Therefore the final sold version will be reduced in price. Probably meaning some certain systems are removed or exchanged with less expensive ones.
It makes sense from another perspective too. J-10C is obviously a multi-role fighter, however PAF wishes to employ it mainly as an A2A fighter for now, so removing certain things that don’t have An effect on its A2A capability will reduce the price and allow the PAF to buy more, and maybe even increase range and reduce weight, however I doubt that since the things that get removed will likely not be that big.

However this also means that PAF may be changing certain aspects of it that it does need to be better, in this regard the PAF J-10C might have different radars and the newer HUDs that were seen a little while back only. So basically it is a more PAF-specific version of the aircraft, not necessarily a downgrade.

There is flexibility in this however, PAF may get different versions later and given the relationship between the two countries the doors to future upgrades will easily remain open for the PAF. As well as chances of other technology trickling down into JF-17.
 
It makes sense from another perspective too. J-10C is obviously a multi-role fighter, however PAF wishes to employ it mainly as an A2A fighter for now, so removing certain things that don’t have An effect on its A2A capability will reduce the price and allow the PAF to buy more, and maybe even increase range and reduce weight, however I doubt that since the things that get removed will likely not be that big.

However this also means that PAF may be changing certain aspects of it that it does need to be better, in this regard the PAF J-10C might have different radars and the newer HUDs that were seen a little while back only. So basically it is a more PAF-specific version of the aircraft, not necessarily a downgrade.

There is flexibility in this however, PAF may get different versions later and given the relationship between the two countries the doors to future upgrades will easily remain open for the PAF. As well as chances of other technology trickling down into JF-17.

I do not think a totally new AESA for a Pakistan J-10 will be developed. Such a project will end up costing more because Pakistan will need to pay for the development cost even if China makes zero profit from radar development and the J-10 at least it will be the minimum per unit cost just like when PLAAF pays for J-10.

The J-10C's AESA is second gen fighter AESA from China. Unless the development of a third gen is done for some reason for China's own J-10C+ for example, then Pakistan alone will certainly not have any new radar. Only existing one. Existing one also keeps cost down since it is already now like more than 6 years old and mass produced so with more orders, cost comes down.

The radar is also said to be better than Su-35's PESA even though Irbis has more power rating specifications the wave forming capabilities and low interception is nothing comparable.

The JF-17 block 3's AESAs development are different matter because here we have about 200 units that can receive upgrades so there is much more gain in capability and money involved or money saved due to mass application and there is the new block 3. It is also I suspect much less expensive radars than J-10C's but if Pakistan buys J-10C I think it should use the same radar as PLAAF's with very minor changes due to how PAF operate fighters and IFF related things.

Why I do not think the PLAAF will be bothered for 3rd gen and onwards AESA for J-10 developments is because no new weapons have been introduced. 2nd gen AESA for J-10C is enough for PL-15 and the task for J-10C in PLAAF roles. It is the numbers fighter for PLAAF and doesn't need to track 20 targets and engage 8 for example so its computing power doesn't require that level and doesn't have the number of missiles or range for that sort of fighting unlike J-16.

New things will cost much more especially if developed just for PAF. I think they will just remove some equipment hopefully are things unnecessary for PAF and that's it. The job is to keep costs down as much as possible. You cannot outspend India but need to find advantages in what you do spend. They make it easy since Rafale is crazy expensive but hopefully the Chinese teams help PAF determine exactly the most optimal purchase and keep costs down while not sacrificing capability. Personally I do not think Rafale's EW is anything impressive in reality. China and USA spend the most in the world on EW technologies even to build EMP weapons since 2000s and since China determines that the USA is the most advanced in EW, it needs to understand the most and counter it. France played around with some active cancellation with signal sampling. This sort of technology is honestly nothing very groundbreaking in this era.

I mean now we have satellite constellation since 2010s with direct phone fast data linking like even if you are outside 4G network in 2010s, some special data linking can be formed. 6G technology is being tested and lots of satellites which expand network centric warfare into space as additional layer.

Drones in China can provide many kinds of signals service for thousands of users per drone. Sampling and active cancellation is not something the Chinese teams are clueless about at all. In fact I think early J-10s even J-10A already featured similar SPECTRA capability against Vietnam in the past. Vietnam sent some Su-30s and China sent one or two J-10A and blinded the Su-30s totally. Even J-10A has similar protrusion as Rafale at the canards for either the passive or active components of signals sampling or sending.
 
I do not think a totally new AESA for a Pakistan J-10 will be developed. Such a project will end up costing more because Pakistan will need to pay for the development cost even if China makes zero profit from radar development and the J-10 at least it will be the minimum per unit cost just like when PLAAF pays for J-10.

The J-10C's AESA is second gen fighter AESA from China. Unless the development of a third gen is done for some reason for China's own J-10C+ for example, then Pakistan alone will certainly not have any new radar. Only existing one. Existing one also keeps cost down since it is already now like more than 6 years old and mass produced so with more orders, cost comes down.

The radar is also said to be better than Su-35's PESA even though Irbis has more power rating specifications the wave forming capabilities and low interception is nothing comparable.

The JF-17 block 3's AESAs development are different matter because here we have about 200 units that can receive upgrades so there is much more gain in capability and money involved or money saved due to mass application and there is the new block 3. It is also I suspect much less expensive radars than J-10C's but if Pakistan buys J-10C I think it should use the same radar as PLAAF's with very minor changes due to how PAF operate fighters and IFF related things.

Why I do not think the PLAAF will be bothered for 3rd gen and onwards AESA for J-10 developments is because no new weapons have been introduced. 2nd gen AESA for J-10C is enough for PL-15 and the task for J-10C in PLAAF roles. It is the numbers fighter for PLAAF and doesn't need to track 20 targets and engage 8 for example so its computing power doesn't require that level and doesn't have the number of missiles or range for that sort of fighting unlike J-16.

New things will cost much more especially if developed just for PAF. I think they will just remove some equipment hopefully are things unnecessary for PAF and that's it. The job is to keep costs down as much as possible. You cannot outspend India but need to find advantages in what you do spend. They make it easy since Rafale is crazy expensive but hopefully the Chinese teams help PAF determine exactly the most optimal purchase and keep costs down while not sacrificing capability. Personally I do not think Rafale's EW is anything impressive in reality. China and USA spend the most in the world on EW technologies even to build EMP weapons since 2000s and since China determines that the USA is the most advanced in EW, it needs to understand the most and counter it. France played around with some active cancellation with signal sampling. This sort of technology is honestly nothing very groundbreaking in this era.

I mean now we have satellite constellation since 2010s with direct phone fast data linking like even if you are outside 4G network in 2010s, some special data linking can be formed. 6G technology is being tested and lots of satellites which expand network centric warfare into space as additional layer.

Drones in China can provide many kinds of signals service for thousands of users per drone. Sampling and active cancellation is not something the Chinese teams are clueless about at all. In fact I think early J-10s even J-10A already featured similar SPECTRA capability against Vietnam in the past. Vietnam sent some Su-30s and China sent one or two J-10A and blinded the Su-30s totally. Even J-10A has similar protrusion as Rafale at the canards for either the passive or active components of signals sampling or sending.
I agree with the rest of what you said, but I didn’t mean a new AESA for Pakistani J-10Cs, just a different one. A new one would obviously cost a lot more and is unrealistic.

China doesn’t make one 2nd Gen AESA, even the J-10 from my memory doesn’t use a single type (given the radomes shape), I meant more along the lines of them changing it to make it more similar to the JFs (upscaled?) or just modified for certain things (thinking off How F7PG project went back in the day). Making it closer to JFs radar might actually save money instead, as long as it doesn’t negatively effect performance.
 
I agree with the rest of what you said, but I didn’t mean a new AESA for Pakistani J-10Cs, just a different one. A new one would obviously cost a lot more and is unrealistic.

China doesn’t make one 2nd Gen AESA, even the J-10 from my memory doesn’t use a single type (given the radomes shape), I meant more along the lines of them changing it to make it more similar to the JFs (upscaled?) or just modified for certain things (thinking off How F7PG project went back in the day). Making it closer to JFs radar might actually save money instead, as long as it doesn’t negatively effect performance.

Yes it has more than one type of 2nd gen AESA since J-16's AESA and J-10C's are both part of 2nd gen and also let's include the J-11D's which is now being used for J-11B upgrades.

But even out of these three, only the J-10C's fit the J-10 and is specifically designed for it. When you say China has more than one 2nd gen for just J-10 fighter platform, I do not know what you mean. They have some slight differences in between them maybe for example the first J-10C from around 2017 with radar surely completed and tested on even J-10B models well before 2017. That particular radar might be slightly different to J-10C produced in 2021 but they should be considered the same platform. So any J-10C Pakistan buys will have a J-10C radar that has been developed already of course with changes due to operations between difference airforces.

Developing a new AESA is extremely difficult and expensive. Producing a new one may not be so difficult but comes at cost of manufacturing capacity shared between more product lines or cost of setting totally new production chain. For this reason I doubt a new AESA will be developed or produced for Pakistan. It will be some form of J-10C's current radar from 2021 just with the slight differences that are just necessary for PAF.
 

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