Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[onebyone]

 

[Proud 2 Be a Pakistani]

Don't Know if its True;

 

[johncliu88]

No surprise. SU-35's are old while J-10C has the most recent stuff installed which makes it a different class of fighter.

 

[MajesticPug]

Don't Know if its True;

That was old news. China did many exercises in which J10C crushed Su35 every time. J10C held its edge against J16 despite J16's dual engines and larger AESA radar. The key, I think, is J10C's smaller detectable image on opponent's radar. While J10C's shorter combat range (hey, it's a single engine) cannot make J10C a long range offensive weapon, it's excellent defending the home turf.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Don't Know if its True;

The only reliable rumor I heard was that the Su-35 demonstrated inferior situational awareness than J-10C during an exercise. There is no credible rumor of J-10C being pitted against the Su-35.

 

[world of power]

Don't Know if its True;

The only reliable rumor I heard was that the Su-35 demonstrated inferior situational awareness than J-10C during an exercise. There is no credible rumor of J-10C being pitted against the Su-35.

J16 won over J10C & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2018
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2019
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2020
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2021

J-10C: The "Golden Helmet" crown again, the air "Fighting King" really deserves its reputation - iNEWS (inf.news)

 

[siegecrossbow]

J16 won over J10C & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2018
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2019
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2020
J10C won over J16 & SU35 in Golden Helmet-2021

J-10C: The "Golden Helmet" crown again, the air "Fighting King" really deserves its reputation - iNEWS (inf.news)

J-16 won in 2018 and 2019. It is not known if the Su-35 participated in Golden Helmet.

 

[khanasifm]

That was old news. China did many exercises in which J10C crushed Su35 every time. J10C held its edge against J16 despite J16's dual engines and larger AESA radar. The key, I think, is J10C's smaller detectable image on opponent's radar. While J10C's shorter combat range (hey, it's a single engine) cannot make J10C a long range offensive weapon, it's excellent defending the home turf.

Combat range and Ferry ranges of both aircraft are know so no co fusion dual engine also mean more fuel consumption
Su-30

• Range: 3,000 km (1,900 mi, 1,600 nmi) at high altitude

1,270 km (790 mi; 690 nmi) at low altitude

j-10 ferry range 2950km which is same combat range are pretty much same the difference is no external tanks for su-30 vs j-10 is with external fuel so less combat-load bit today’s sow does not make much difference carrying a few guided long range vs bomb truck
then it’s better to go with su37

not every country can afford f-15s ans su-30 better to have f-16 class or j-10

 

[kungfugymnast]

Combat range and Ferry ranges of both aircraft are know so no co fusion dual engine also mean more fuel consumption
Su-30

• Range: 3,000 km (1,900 mi, 1,600 nmi) at high altitude

1,270 km (790 mi; 690 nmi) at low altitude

j-10 ferry range 2950km which is same combat range are pretty much same the difference is no external tanks for su-30 vs j-10 is with external fuel so less combat-load bit today’s sow does not make much difference carrying a few guided long range vs bomb truck
then it’s better to go with su37

not every country can afford f-15s ans su-30 better to have f-16 class or j-10

The J-10C is mostly for defensive patrol and air to ground search and destroy for PLAAF just like how US would use their F-16. Air to air intercept, escort sorties would mainly flown by J-11B, J-16 that have the speed and fuel.

Since you mentioned F-16, just share this latest news on ROCAF F-16B runway mishap here. It's irrelevant but sure most would want to see this footage.

 

[serenity]

Review of Su-35 Russians exported is great flying performance and the 117 engines are more powerful than WS-10 performance on J-16 especially since J-16 has much more extra weight for second pilot. However when asked about Su-35 overall, it is said it cannot even be compared to J-10C and J-16 although it has interesting duel system which is basically computer where you upload information about fighter you are fighting against and the onboard computers can recommend certain action depending on who the Su-35 is facing and how many. But without detailed information to feed the system, it is quite useless and definitely older than what is being used nowadays. This was when Su-35 first got into PLAAF.

J-10C and J-16 both have much better radars than Irbis E despite Irbis E bragging 400km range which is ridiculous. Powerful radar and very good but what the PLAAF said was that the perfect flanker would be Su-35 with J-16 avionics and sensor fusion. Su-35 represents next evolution in flying performance for flanker series and J-16 has next step of electronics and equipment.

 

[world of power]

J-16 won in 2018 and 2019. It is not known if the Su-35 participated in Golden Helmet.

news said so
J-10C: The "Golden Helmet" crown again, the air "Fighting King" really deserves its reputation - iNEWS (inf.news)
J-10C defeats J-16 and wins “Golden Helmet” (china-arms.com)
In the battle of the Golden Helmet, Su-35 was defeated by the J-10. After more than 20 years of hard work, he finally succeeded | DayDayNews

and we already discussed
(1) J-10C wins PLAAF's "Golden Helmet-2019" air combat competition by defeating J-16 and Su-35SK | Pakistan Defence

 

[siegecrossbow]

Review of Su-35 Russians exported is great flying performance and the 117 engines are more powerful than WS-10 performance on J-16 especially since J-16 has much more extra weight for second pilot. However when asked about Su-35 overall, it is said it cannot even be compared to J-10C and J-16 although it has interesting duel system which is basically computer where you upload information about fighter you are fighting against and the onboard computers can recommend certain action depending on who the Su-35 is facing and how many. But without detailed information to feed the system, it is quite useless and definitely older than what is being used nowadays. This was when Su-35 first got into PLAAF.

J-10C and J-16 both have much better radars than Irbis E despite Irbis E bragging 400km range which is ridiculous. Powerful radar and very good but what the PLAAF said was that the perfect flanker would be Su-35 with J-16 avionics and sensor fusion. Su-35 represents next evolution in flying performance for flanker series and J-16 has next step of electronics and equipment.

The 400KM range is vastly inflated. Radar detection range depends on the RCS of the object being tracked, whether it is lookup or look down (ground clutter could be a pain), and percentage that the target can reliably register. I think the Russian standard is 50% of the time and Western standard is 70%.

 

[luciferdd]

Review of Su-35 Russians exported is great flying performance and the 117 engines are more powerful than WS-10 performance on J-16 especially since J-16 has much more extra weight for second pilot. However when asked about Su-35 overall, it is said it cannot even be compared to J-10C and J-16 although it has interesting duel system which is basically computer where you upload information about fighter you are fighting against and the onboard computers can recommend certain action depending on who the Su-35 is facing and how many. But without detailed information to feed the system, it is quite useless and definitely older than what is being used nowadays. This was when Su-35 first got into PLAAF.

J-10C and J-16 both have much better radars than Irbis E despite Irbis E bragging 400km range which is ridiculous. Powerful radar and very good but what the PLAAF said was that the perfect flanker would be Su-35 with J-16 avionics and sensor fusion. Su-35 represents next evolution in flying performance for flanker series and J-16 has next step of electronics and equipment.

YES，the real 3.5G Air superiority fighter is J-11D,But J-11D is useless when you have J-20~~it's a tragedy for j-11D

 

[serenity]

The 400KM range is vastly inflated. Radar detection range depends on the RCS of the object being tracked, whether it is lookup or look down (ground clutter could be a pain), and percentage that the target can reliably register. I think the Russian standard is 50% of the time and Western standard is 70%.

I think the Russian material says 400km for 3 meter square RCS objects. We know this mode is near useless anyway without many supports and without R-37 or long range missile. Even then it is limited in use.

Russian standard for measure is lower than Western standard for measure. I can't remember what the exact claimed numbers are but recall Russian one being higher than 50% and western one being higher than 70%.

I doubt Irbis PESA is more useful than J-16's AESA, China's second generation fighter AESA type.

YES，the real 3.5G Air superiority fighter is J-11D,But J-11D is useless when you have J-20~~it's a tragedy for j-11D

Just from Chinese information and public knowledge we know many things for nearly certain.

J-16 is PLAAF's 3.5 generation or in western standard language, 4.5 generation fighter. J-11D radar when the prototypes were evaluated in the 2010s did not have performance they wanted. I don't think J-11D can fly as well as Su-35 either. It is a pointless project to waste money since PLAAF is moving to J-20 then and J-20 was finishing in 2017 to 2018. During these evaluation period in 2010 to 2015 period, they were not sure if J-20 would be successful enough for their desire. J-11D and Su-35 were both the next top fighter in case J-20 project did not deliver well enough.

Since 2016 and later they would have realized J-20 is easily much better than Su-35 and J-11D can ever be for air superiority. By then J-20's weapons systems should have been ready and being constantly tested and improved until first production batch in 2018.

Su-35 was ordered in talks in 1990s but not the modernized Su-35. In 2015 the deal was signed. Many reasons for this deal and first delivery in 2016. Deal was signed three to four years before J-20 first batch service produced. J-11D evaluation showed no definite advantage in air superiority over J-16. For such small difference, the Su-35 flight performance is better with the 117 engine. So clearly the decision was Su-35 in small batch to play with thrust vector and to become dedicated air superiority fighter in PLAAF until J-20 was ready. J-16 is still more effective fighter than Su-35 because it can be much more multirole but air superiority of flight performance cannot match Su-35. The advantage of J-16 is it can fire Chinese missiles so we don't have to keep arming with Russian ones. Chinese long range missiles too and then the next generation ones like PL-15 and PL-10. J-16's radar is also much better but Su-35's engines more powerful and the Russian's new flight control with thrust vector is totally different to older flanker.

J-16 is basically our missile truck that can fly far. J-10C is J-16 light but better flight performance with lower range and missile load. These are PLAAF's 4.5 generation fighters and J-11D is simply pointless by 2016 and more pointless every second after. J-11D's developments now are benefiting J-11B upgrades so not all wasted. J-11B upgraded to new standard are basically J-11D lights.

The important one is more J-20 and upgrading J-20. 4.5 generation is useful for lower cost and something like J-16 has advantage of carrying much more and larger missiles too. Su-35 will not be purchased anymore because even for filling J-16's 4.5 air superiority role, it is not as good. It's only benefit was to show China what thrust vector can be useful for back in 2015 times. It also shows maximum performance of what India's Su-30MKI can be like with even some systems being cousins or the same ones used in MKI. Su-35 performance in every way is superior to MKI. 24 Su-35 also the minimum number of order Russia wanted. Good to evaluate what Russia's best is as well. Even now Russia has no more than 10 service Su-57. Su-35 is still their top major fighter really until they have at least a few dozen Su-57.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1430859094756368388