Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Argus Panoptes]

there is no runner-up in air-war. be the best or step aside and dont even bother flying
@araz
my comments are regarding a question mark over the capabilities of J-10. I cant be PC here sorry. I dont see it trumping F-16s, SU 30s , Typhoons and rafales, there is a limit to wishful thinking and I am lacking it a lot. I wish to be proven wrong though.

I agree with your comments about the dilemma (about PPP govt) & our unpredictable relationship with the USA and the resulting impact on our front-line fighters.

Sir, if F-6 can beat F-14 ........

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/266193-paf-f-6-beat-f-14-tomcat.html

........ then surely the J-10 can beat F-22, right?

 

[Armstrong]

there is no runner-up in air-war. be the best or step aside and dont even bother flying
@araz
my comments are regarding a question mark over the capabilities of J-10. I cant be PC here sorry. I dont see it trumping F-16s, SU 30s , Typhoons and rafales, there is a limit to wishful thinking and I am lacking it a lot. I wish to be proven wrong though.

I agree with your comments about the dilemma (about PPP govt) & our unpredictable relationship with the USA and the resulting impact on our front-line fighters.

That assessment doesn't make any sense Irfan Bhai ! This thread & even the Jf-17 thread have been riddled with information that substantiate why its a very good aircraft & is more than a match for even the Block 52 !

Imagine this if the Jf-17 has been dubbed by many esteemed members on this form, @Oscar being one of them, which is something comparable to the F-16 Block 40 & approaches the Block 52 in some areas, than how could it possibly be so that a superior aircraft to the Jf-17, the J-10 & more so the J-10B, be thought of as an aircraft that couldn't best an F-16 & hold its own, albeit in unison with other factors, against the Su-30s, the Typhoons & the Rafaels ?

 

[FarazUSA]

That assessment doesn't make any sense Irfan Bhai ! This thread & even the Jf-17 thread have been riddled with information that substantiate why its a very good aircraft & is more than a match for even the Block 52 !

Imagine this if the Jf-17 has been dubbed by many esteemed members on this form, @Oscar being one of them, which is something comparable to the F-16 Block 40 & approaches the Block 52 in some areas, than how could it possibly be so that a superior aircraft to the Jf-17, the J-10 & more so the J-10B, be thought of as an aircraft that couldn't best an F-16 & hold its own, albeit in unison with other factors, against the Su-30s, the Typhoons & the Rafaels ?

Sir, if you were visit Russian and western defense forums, you would see quite negative reviews about JF-17 that I can't probably describe here that too coming from aviation experts. At the same time, it is a wonderful aircraft which would evolve with time. It is natural for us to be happy and excited about our product but the expectations should not go overboard which is what I see happening here.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I don't think F16 is able to deal with SU30, Typhoon, Rafale either.

you replied just like our politicians do when they are questioned about corruption and mismanagement their response is that the guy asking the question is also not clean himself.

I dont mean to offend and I dont mean to make people feel bad. China has made great strides but it has yet to convince the world that it is in the league of the seasoned fighter jet producers like USA, Europe and Russia.

for simplicity sake if WS-10A can make a serious replacement of AL-31FN then there is hope otherwise we will be taunted that our higher than Himalayas and deeper than Indian Ocean friendship still needs Russian engines to fly.

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/123408-chinese-fighters-evolution-4.html#post4552606

 

[Armstrong]

Sir, if you were visit Russian and western defense forums, you would see quite negative reviews about JF-17 that I can't probably describe here that too coming from aviation experts. At the same time, it is a wonderful aircraft which would evolve with time. It is natural for us to be happy and excited about our product but the expectations should not go overboard which is what I see happening here.

Indeed but there should be a rational basis for those negative reviews too. Just go through this thread & the thread on the Jf-17 & one would come across more than rational reviews on the Jf-17 & the J-10 by our resident posters & industry experts alike who've praised it for what they are whilst highlighting what they think are their shortcomings !

No one is claiming that either of those two platforms are going to down a couple of Su-30s with the Pilot sipping a cup of Gloria Jean's Irish Cream & munching on a Fudge Brownie but to right-it-off in such a disparaging way as some of our posters have the habit of doing, betrays a poor understanding of the Aircraft under question with respect to other Air Platforms out there, at best or a deliberate attempt to see only what they want to see, at the very worst !

Some of the more respected posters on PDF like @sancho @Najam Khan @gambit @ANTIBODY & @Oscar have written some very insightful posts on both the Jf-17 & the J-10s. Posts that are both realistic & without-bias & highlight both what these platforms offer & what they lack.

 

[Beast]

Indeed but there should be a rational basis for those negative reviews too. Just go through this thread & the thread on the Jf-17 & one would come across more than rational reviews on the Jf-17 & the J-10 by our resident posters & industry experts alike who've praised it for what they are whilst highlighting what they think are their shortcomings !

No one is claiming that either of those two platforms are going to down a couple of Su-30s with the Pilot sipping a cup of Gloria Jean's Irish Cream & munching on a Fudge Brownie but to right-it-off in such a disparaging way as some of our posters have the habit of doing, betrays a poor understanding of the Aircraft under question with respect to other Air Platforms out there, at best or a deliberate attempt to see only what they want to see, at the very worst !

Some of the more respected posters on PDF like @sancho @Najam Khan @gambit @ANTIBODY & @Oscar have written some very insightful posts on both the Jf-17 & the J-10s. Posts that are both realistic & without-bias & highlight both what these platforms offer & what they lack.

Even aviation expert can be nationalistic.....

 

[Armstrong]

Even aviation expert can be nationalistic.....

Yes but Nationalistic doesn't equal Biased !

I'm as Nationalistic as they come but I recognize that the Jf-17 isn't the best platform out there...far from it but it offers us something that no other platform could & therefore its the best bet for us !

 

[Tempest II]

That assessment doesn't make any sense Irfan Bhai ! This thread & even the Jf-17 thread have been riddled with information that substantiate why its a very good aircraft & is more than a match for even the Block 52 !

Imagine this if the Jf-17 has been dubbed by many esteemed members on this form, @Oscar being one of them, which is something comparable to the F-16 Block 40 & approaches the Block 52 in some areas, than how could it possibly be so that a superior aircraft to the Jf-17, the J-10 & more so the J-10B, be thought of as an aircraft that couldn't best an F-16 & hold its own, albeit in unison with other factors, against the Su-30s, the Typhoons & the Rafaels ?

Both the JF-17 and J-10 have moved with the times. I am sure what we have today is not what was originally specified or expected 10 years ago. … … For example we all remember the FC-1 we expected to have a Kopyo radar or Grifo-S7, a 70km SD-10, 84kN RD-93 and 2 MFDs. However we are now looking at 3 MFDs, KLJ-7 (picking a fighter at 130km), >100km SD-10A, upto 100KN RD-93MA based on RD-33MK, serious anti-ship and anti-radiation missiles, guided and glide bombs, data-link, HMS, etc. Concerning the J-10 you have Whitehouse briefings acknowledging it is more than an F-16 and more towards the Typhoon and Rafale performance. I am sure this is said in relation to performance (quality) than carrying capacity.

 

[Gentelman]

Hello people.
Hkan of pakdef.info is reporting that the govtt has assured the release of1.3 billion$to the PAF for the procurement of first batch of 36--50 J10Bs. The order might be made in the next 2-3 months.I think the F16 deal has been shelved for good. RIP F16.
araz

PAF requirements about FC-20 were more than J-10Bs……
it's obvious that ecen if PAF FC-20 are as per requiremebts and more advance than J-10Bs than we would never know officially but maybe any guess??
Well good news anxiously waiting for any such news but any source maybe??

 

[sancho]

Concerning the J-10 you have Whitehouse briefings acknowledging it is more than an F-16 and more towards the Typhoon and Rafale performance. I am sure this is said in relation to performance (quality) than carrying capacity.

Doubtful, if at all it can be said wrt the delta wing design, but other than that, there is hardly any commonality.
On the other side, you have the J10 and the F16, both single engine medium class fighters, developed similar materials or coatings, designed for similar interception roles mainly and meant as a cost-effective low end alternative for heavy class air superiority fighters.
So the comparison to the F16 is more than valid, the J10B should be able to give the latest F16 B52 and B60 versions (depending on the final specs of the J10B upgrades) more than just a headache, especially when it comes in high numbers. But sadly China seems to be a bit distracted by their progress in the NG fighter developments, which might cut the importance of J10 and it's potential to bring it to similar performance as the EF or Rafale.

 

[ziaulislam]

there is no runner-up in air-war. be the best or step aside and dont even bother flying
@araz
my comments are regarding a question mark over the capabilities of J-10. I cant be PC here sorry. I dont see it trumping F-16s, SU 30s , Typhoons and rafales, there is a limit to wishful thinking and I am lacking it a lot. I wish to be proven wrong though.

I agree with your comments about the dilemma (about PPP govt) & our unpredictable relationship with the USA and the resulting impact on our front-line fighters.

well some people think otherwise, j-10b if given some time i.e 3-4 years might easily match the f-16Es 0r rafale (AESA, new avionics and data fusion).
Oscar mentioned that in air to air role it does matches rafale but isnt that good in multirole capablities. correct me if i am wrong.
i am pretty sure J-20 will help J-10B and i am pretty sure that the money chinese had they would definitely had joined the PAK-FA project had the upper brass not been assured that they can create a generation ahead aircrft with powerful avionics, data fusion etc
remeber the chines were offered partnership first, only later the indians joined
regarding engines chinese have been manufacturing various engines. and have started manufacturing latest engines according to rumours, i am pretty confidence than we will see mass production sole chinese engines flying in year or two maximum

 

[Tempest II]

AIR FORCE Magazine / July 2006

DOD seemed to offer a re-assessment of the capabilities of China’s F-10 fighter, which it previously had compared to the F-16 Block 30. (See “Washington Watch: Chinese Military Is Catching Up—Fast,” September 2005, p. 12.) In this latest version of the annual China report, the Pentagon said the F-10 is probably more comparable to the Euro- fighter Typhoon and French Rafale, considered among the top three fighters in the world today, after the US F-22A. The Pentagon expects more than 1,200 F-10s will be built, and improved versions—the F-10A and “Super-10”—are in advanced development.

 

[krash]

A question due to lack of my knowledge...which 1 is better AESA OR PESA Radar..??

AESA vs PESA

 

[ziaulislam]

AESA vs PESA

AESA>PESA>mechanical steered pulse doppler..

Doubtful, if at all it can be said wrt the delta wing design, but other than that, there is hardly any commonality.
On the other side, you have the J10 and the F16, both single engine medium class fighters, developed similar materials or coatings, designed for similar interception roles mainly and meant as a cost-effective low end alternative for heavy class air superiority fighters.
So the comparison to the F16 is more than valid, the J10B should be able to give the latest F16 B52 and B60 versions (depending on the final specs of the J10B upgrades) more than just a headache, especially when it comes in high numbers. But sadly China seems to be a bit distracted by their progress in the NG fighter developments, which might cut the importance of J10 and it's potential to bring it to similar performance as the EF or Rafale.

j-10 and J-11 will still form the majority/bulk of PLAAF for very long time..so idont think so they will ignore it..
we might see near 500 J-10s in chinese arsenal alone(250+ j-10A already in service)..thats more than what india total 4.5 arsenal might be around 2025