Check out PAA Z-10 Thunderbolt Pilot headgear

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Firstly, 70 x Gunships are not required for CPEC security.
Secondly, Pakistan needs more transport helicopters preferably medium, handful of heavy than Gunships.
Thirdly, AH-1Z and T-129 are capable machines. Z-10 will be bought when PAA approves.

1. For CPEC security, fire support can be provided by AH-1F/s with their armament and some basic sensors like FLIR. When 44th Light Infantry Division is commissioned, it can provide more depth to 34th LID on ground and security to installations. Navy should place a Frigate and few Corvettes. Raise a Battalion of Marines to form an outer perimeter of security, at land and at sea, through a QRF at installations and constant patrolling with coast guard. 44th LID and PN marines should be given maximum fire power in the form of exclusive weaponry such as HMGs, RR guns or Alcotan-100 launchers, sniper rifles and MRAPs for transport. If PAF can place a flight detachment of 4 x fighters, that should be able to handle future UAV incursions from west as well as checkmate un-authorized aircraft entry in Gwadar airspace.

2. Transport helicopters offer a much more suitable capability to handle many situations such as recon, surveillance and of course air assault leading to insertion of troops at unexpected locations in minimal times apart from the medical services and supply. These helicopters help control a situation much more rapidly in COIN war, Terrorist attacks, capturing key enemy leaders and even evacuation. Gunship is air artillery. It can reach an area quickly and deploy all forms of armament, but its usually called in for specialized attacks when no other option is available. Mi-35 is excellent at both roles, however it deploys effectively well in conjunction with Mi-17.

3. In WW2 around 1940, When Churchill made a phone call for getting fighter aircrafts from US President, which were paid through loan by Americans and bought by British, the US President refused to fly them over to UK, further refusing to land them on a British aircraft carrier when requested by Churchill. The US President offered that these aircrafts will be landed near US-Canada border from where British can use horses to pull fighters from USA into Canada, not even through motorized transport. The US President said he was following deal as a neutral country citing from paperwork thus limiting his options to help the British. So, whether its AH-1Z or F-16, if USA can shrug aside personal request of British PM, then Pakistan should brace all situations. Z-10 has been tested by PAA, it can only make its place into inventory if the appropriate changes have been made to it, Somehow, Pakistan seems to go with Russian, European and American engines for aircrafts and helicopters. Z-9 in PN carries a licensed version of French engine. Z-10 - its features, its weapons have been discussed thoroughly many times, its best to leave it to official statement by Military, just as in case of J-10.

Z-10 should have been acquired 4-20 Units initial Batch

While T-129 was being fined tuned and manufactured , it would have given us an ample platform beside the Cobra


After T-129 was delivered from Turkey, we would have had a solid fleet

> 36 T-129
> 20 Z-10
> 20-36 , Cobras (1970's upgraded)

To back out of the Z-10 deal was weired considering the chronic shortage of Helicopters in Pakistan Army


We would have attained the second batch for Z10 And T129 according to our needs later on

 

[Signalian]

To back out of the Z-10 deal was weird considering the chronic shortage of Helicopters in Pakistan Army

Transport is short

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What is better ?

0 New helicopter?
20 Brand new Z-10 Choppers armed with Anti Tank Rockets + new Technology?

Sure we invested in T-129 it is a great platform it will come in future but for present we could have filled the void with Z-10 (20-25 Units)

Returning the Z-10 was a mistake , the Super Cobras never arrived as anticipated

 

[Ultima Thule]

What is better ?

0 New helicopter?
20 Brand new Z-10 Choppers armed with Anti Tank Rockets + new Technology?

Sure we invested in T-129 it is a great platform it will come in future but for present we could have filled the void with Z-10 (20-25 Units)

Oh bhai PAA is not satisfied the performance of Z-10 and that's all

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Here is my 2 cents


Firstly, one makes an argument about performance, when there is an alternative platform and you have a choice between multiple platforms to choose

• Are we being offered Apache from USA? Nope
• Are we getting that second grade Super Cobra ? Nope
• Is T-129 ready? Completed? Nope
• Is T-129 Engine ready? Being Tested

What is our option, the options are 1970's Viet Nam Era Cobras, which have limited Technology on it


Considering above what performance matrices is Pakistan Army Considering?

We were gifted 4 Fantastic Z-10's already functional , all we had to do was order another 16 to have 20 birds flying in Pakistani Army

They might have been slightly different then Super Cobras may be 1% or 5% difference

Big deal at least we would have had 20 birds and people would have been training on the platform


The Cobras (1970's ones) don't cut it anymore we are in 2020


My own opinion is at one time we had chance to expand the Z-10 fleet , but we thought we might get the Super Cobras , which we had negotiated in past so our decision-makers thought to not spend money on 2 platforms

But in end we got nothing out of two platforms , error in Judgement


I think both

• T-129
• Z-10

Can play a vital role in Pakistan Army's plans if we plan it out well

 

[Ultima Thule]

Here is my 2 cents


Firstly, one makes an argument about performance, when there is an alternative platform and you have a choice between multiple platforms to choose

• Are we being offered Apache from USA? Nope
• Are we getting that second grade Super Cobra ? Nope
• Is T-129 ready? Completed? Nope
• Is T-129 Engine ready? Being Tested

What is our option, the options are 1970's Viet Nam Era Cobras, which have limited Technology on it


Considering above what performance matrices is Pakistan Army Considering?

We were gifted 4 Fantastic Z-10's already functional , all we had to do was order another 16 to have 20 birds flying in Pakistani Army

They might have been slightly different then Super Cobras may be 1% or 5% difference

Big deal at least we would have had 20 birds and people would have been training on the platform


The Cobras (1970's ones) don't cut it anymore we are in 2020


My own opinion is at one time we had chance to expand the Z-10 fleet , but we thought we might get the Super Cobras , which we had negotiated in past so our decision-makers thought to not spend money on 2 platforms

But in end we got nothing out of two platforms , error in Judgement


I think both

• T-129
• Z-10

Can plat a vital role in Pakistan Army's plans if we plan it out well

And what about South African Rohivook this is a quite good attack helicopter

 

[JohnWick]

And what about South African Rohivook this is a quite good attack helicopter

Z-10 looks far modren than this bs ....

 

[python-000]

What is better ?

0 New helicopter?
20 Brand new Z-10 Choppers armed with Anti Tank Rockets + new Technology?

Sure we invested in T-129 it is a great platform it will come in future but for present we could have filled the void with Z-10 (20-25 Units)

Returning the Z-10 was a mistake , the Super Cobras never arrived as anticipated

Pakistan must get them on a urgent bases from China before its too late...

 

[Ultima Thule]

Z-10 looks far modren than this bs ....

Modern military equipment didn't design on beauty or aesthetic but on their performance base on their missions, if performance is ok than looks doesn't matter

 

[GriffinsRule]

People here are speaking as if they know exactly what happened in the trials, what happened in the negotiations that led to PA selecting the T-129 and what is happening now in the back ground with Turkey and the US. However, if I was in the decision making role, I would have made the exact same choice as PA did for a couple of reason ... except with a small difference (ie not wasting money on Mi-35).

T-129, the better of the two helicopters was selected to replace the ageing AH-1F/S fleet (even here its quite likely PA would have kept operating them like most countries). On the heavy end a smaller force of very advanced and capable AH-1Zs were also selected (quite laughable to read someone calling them second grade).

Secondly, if we are being honest, PA did not need T-129 for counterinsurgency role ... the original Cobra along with weaponized Bell 412s are more enough to deal with the taliban, BLA or any other terrorists threatening Pakistan. These new choppers are meant for India and its tanks. Now that the operations in Pakistan have pretty much wrapped up, there is also less pressure on the existing Cobra fleet and they have started going through refurbishment in Pakistan. Hopefully that will include upgraded avionics similar to what Jordan and Bahrain undertook, but there hasn't been any news to suggest that.

Next, while the border turns hot from time to time in Kashmir, everyone knows both India and Pakistan would rather have a war of words than an actual full scale showdown. As such, PA is just fine by waiting on Turkey to sort out its issues with the US and to refrain from paying out of pocket for the Zulu Cobras instead of the CSF funds.

In the long run, I would rather have a capable aircraft then to get stuck with a 3rd tier choice only because I was panicking and just wanted to have a shiny new toy to feel secure and pay the price for it down the line.

 

[MastanKhan]

What is better ?

0 New helicopter?
20 Brand new Z-10 Choppers armed with Anti Tank Rockets + new Technology?

Sure we invested in T-129 it is a great platform it will come in future but for present we could have filled the void with Z-10 (20-25 Units)

Returning the Z-10 was a mistake , the Super Cobras never arrived as anticipated

Hi,

Indeed going for the Turkish helicopter was a total blunder---this blunder is now the worst blunder committed by pak military regarding procurement---.

Pak generals have deceived the motherland upteenth time regarding procurement of weapons in a timely manner---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

Indeed going for the Turkish helicopter was a total blunder---this blunder is now the worst blunder committed by pak military regarding procurement---.

Pak generals have deceived the motherland upteenth time regarding procurement of weapons in a timely manner---.

Russia has come to the aid of Pak!!! Thanks to the Syrian morass and the sudden turns of events, NATO and Turkey are realigning at a fast pace!!!! The US supporters inside Turkey are putting an enormous pressure too!!! Looks like the Turkish establishment is now like "a known enemy is better than an unknown friend"!!! Hopefully, the engines will get cleared...

F-35 parts production was supposed to be stopped in February. Now, it's extended till the end of the year. The US folks have fond out that "sticks" aren't working, so they're now bringing out "carrots"...