Changing Views of Afghan Forces

[Sher Malang]

Your basic assumption is wrong. Pakistan does not support the Taliban. Pakistan is indifferent to the Taliban, as they are the Afghan people themselves. Hence, the rest of your post is moot.

I wish this was true but you guys openly accept supporting Taliban.

 

[53fd]

I wish this was true but you guys openly accept supporting Taliban.

Evidence???

 

[mjnaushad]

Dear Icewolf,

Precisely where do you think you’re going with this friend? Did you not know that historical Afghans had a tendency to attach the name of the province their leaders descended from at the end of their names? Hence, Muhammad e “Ghori” (from Afghanistan’s Ghor), or Sultan Mahmoud e Ghaznawi (from Afghanistan’s Ghazni)? But hey, if you’re referring to their descendants having been born among the ruled as your rulers, then try thinking about how screwed up that is. Both these rulers were brutal enough on fellow-Afghans themselves, but they are renowned for delivering the most extreme prejudice upon your ancestors in Sindh and the Punjab in particular. Are you not aware of this? When I see Pakistanis eulogize these Afghan rulers even to the extent that you actually take ownership over them, it’s suddenly as though you choose to escape the thoughts of immense humiliation they brought upon your ancestors. I suppose it’s easier to identify with your masters than to acknowledge the cowardice of your own people. If this is what they teach you in Pakistani schools, then I will tell you that your entire syllabus is based on lies, just like much of everything else in Pakistan. I still can not believe that many among your leaders insist upon telling you that the Taliban are an Afghan nationalist movement fighting for our freedoms.

As for Ahmed Shah Abdali, for starters, you are talking to a part descendant of the Durranis, which is what I am. Last I checked, no member of my family has every referred to ourselves as Punjabis, even if you are indeed referring to the heavily contentious historical argument that he was apparently born in Multan. I hope you realize that there are equally sources that claim that he was born in Herat, Afghanistan. After all, the Abdali tribes have historically been spread across from Kandahar to Herat. This is why they were recruited into the army of the Sunni Turkish Khorasani ruler, Nadir Quli Beg, given their geographic proximity to them. When Ahmed Shah Baba was crowned Amir, it all happened in Kandahar. But even still, it doesn’t matter one bit if he was indeed been born in Multan, for it would have surely been in the bosom of yet another Afghan ruler therein. However, if you really want to know how the Durranis viewed the Punjabis, try digesting the fact that Timur Shah ruled over those lands through his appointed Sikh – not Muslim – Governor, Ranjit Singh.

But if that doesn’t work for you, try going to Ghor, Ghazni or Kandahar as a Punjabi and declare those leaders as your own to the people therein and watch the reaction you’ll invite. I would tell you that the people would laugh you out of Afghanistan and no more so than the Kakos of Kandahar in particular. You people have been inflating your egos with nothing more than borrowed history from Afghanistan. Do you realize this friend?

In spite of all your leaders have done to Afghans by riding on the back of our war with the Soviets, the fact is that the more I learn about Pakistanis, the more I genuinely pity you.

Peace,

Loy Afghanistan

Hi

Welcome to defence.pk

well i am not a historian and have always been weak at history so i wont comment on that or what you think of our missile names and stuff. I'll leave that to someone else . However what our leaders did to Afghans was Afghans own leaders fault. The Innocent and Peaceful Afghans aggressive stance towards Pakistan led to creation of Mujahideen and later Taliban. We just wanted a friendly neighbor but instead we got someone who wont recognize us in UN, Do border violation, Attack our embassy so whatever happened in 80s was a reaction and precautionary measure by our leaders for what they were facing from last 30 or so years.

May God bring peace and prosperity to Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[Sher Malang]

There were more than 2 dozen green on blue incidents, with standard SOP for NATO/ISAF troops to keep sentry's and loaded weapons with them, at all times even when sleeping.

According to classified field reports from Allied soldiers, they don't trust ANA/ANP, believe they are high on drugs, some are even keeping young boys in their barracks for sexual reasons, the ISAF soldiers find it disgusting, but the Afghans insist it is their cultural practice.

There are MashAllah 352,000 ANSF, Those who acuses them may not have taken their drugs, if they didn't trust them they would have stopped training and equiping them!! and would never plegde 4.1 bln$ per year.. Don't be naive!

Evidence???

I am on mobile will add it for you later!

 

[RazPaK]

I wish this was true but you guys openly accept supporting Taliban.

LoL, you Kabulis are funny.

Mullah Omar must also be a Pakistani Punjabi?

Why do you Kabulis lie through your teeth and create propaganda?

We Pakistani Punjabis must have brought bacha baazi to your country too?

And to lie about Taliban not being an indigenous Afghan movement?

I mean when your own president says this, why do you Kabulis keep lying?
Karzai to lawmakers:

Afghan President Hamid Karzai threatened over the weekend to quit the political process and join the Taliban if he continued to come under outside pressure to reform, several members of parliament said Monday.

Have some shame.

 

[mjnaushad]

I wish this was true but you guys openly accept supporting Taliban.

I expected better from you. Anyway no one is saint here. Everyone will try to protect their national interest. And I personally disagree to every extent that supporting taliban is something that is in our national interest. Many in Pakistan have been trialed and jailed for supporting taliban , Many high leader have been arrested by us, which shows States policy on taliban and their supporters. Anyway as you brought it up I think there will be a certain level of unofficial support remain until Afghanistan stop support for Pashtun separation movements and of course for BLA which your president calls noble guests. Ever since creation of Pakistan Afghan intelligence had a wing whoes sole purpose was to destabalize Pakistan's tribal region of Pakistan and inflate rebel movements. Proof your ex President Rabbani interview with Hamid mir.

Pakistanis for not accepting the truth have faced a terrible price in past few decades...... I just hope Afghans wont repeat the same mistake.

 

[RazPaK]

The Kabuli Afghans are funny. Trying to make their people think Pakistan is the boogeyman, while in reality their own people use Pakistani currency. lolz

 

[mjnaushad]

LoL, you Kabulis are funny.

Mullah Omar must also be a Pakistani Punjabi?

Why do you Kabulis lie through your teeth and create propaganda?

We Pakistani Punjabis must have brought bacha baazi to your country too?

And to lie about Taliban not being an indigenous Afghan movement?

I mean when your own president says this, why do you Kabulis keep lying?
Karzai to lawmakers:



Have some shame.

A total off topic but in a documentry on bacha bazi (by a brave afghan journalist) one of the war lord blamed Pakistan for it. So much love for us based on truth

 

[RazPaK]

A total off topic but in a documentry on bacha bazi (by a brave afghan journalist) one of the war lord blamed Pakistan for it. So much love for us based on truth

LoL, it's the Tajiks and And Kabulis they should be thanking for that phenomenon.

 

[Sher Malang]

The Kabuli Afghans are funny. Trying to make their people think Pakistan is the boogeyman, while in reality their own people use Pakistani currency. lolz

Funny is you, this video presents Pakistan more evil; RS was introduced in that province during Taliban! and Taliban are your asset.

Don't bother with this your Pakistan fellows in Peshawar happily accept Afghani currency

I expected better from you. Anyway no one is saint here. Everyone will try to protect their national interest. And I personally disagree to every extent that supporting taliban is something that is in our national interest. Many in Pakistan have been trialed and jailed for supporting taliban , Many high leader have been arrested by us, which shows States policy on taliban and their supporters. Anyway as you brought it up I think there will be a certain level of unofficial support remain until Afghanistan stop support for Pashtun separation movements and of course for BLA which your president calls noble guests. Ever since creation of Pakistan Afghan intelligence had a wing whoes sole purpose was to destabalize Pakistan's tribal region of Pakistan and inflate rebel movements. Proof your ex President Rabbani interview with Hamid mir.

Pakistanis for not accepting the truth have faced a terrible price in past few decades...... I just hope Afghans wont repeat the same mistake.

You must have read those posts here by members accepting openly the fact; I understand the elements of previous governments of Afghanistan were hostile to Pakistan but what is gone is gone then why did Pakistan secretly started giving safe heavens to Taliban in 2002 and then secretly started funding training them after 2003? when at that time Afghanistan had no relation with BLA or started any Pashtun separation movements?

LoL, you Kabulis are funny.

Mullah Omar must also be a Pakistani Punjabi?

Why do you Kabulis lie through your teeth and create propaganda?

We Pakistani Punjabis must have brought bacha baazi to your country too?

And to lie about Taliban not being an indigenous Afghan movement?

I mean when your own president says this, why do you Kabulis keep lying?
Karzai to lawmakers:

Have some shame.

You are going off-topic and have no clue what to say! that's from 2010 and it's 2012 I see Karzai is still in his office not in 'Quetta'!

Bacha baazi is everywhere in the world, you guys name it 'londay baazi' which is in the roots of every city of Pakistan

Apologies for going off-topic but Bacha baazi/londay baazi is still 100 times better than eating Donkey's meat in Punjab.

 

[MilSpec]

we trained mujahideen with US money..... Taliban were never trained by us..... Because they are the same Mujahideen....And now US is again training Afghans....

please stop fooling yourself, Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RazPaK]

Funny is you, this video presents Pakistan more evil; RS was introduced in that province during Taliban! and Taliban are your asset.

Don't bother with this your Pakistan fellows in Peshawar happily accept Afghani currency



You must have read those posts here by members accepting openly the fact; I understand the elements of previous governments of Afghanistan were hostile to Pakistan but what is gone is gone then why did Pakistan secretly started giving safe heavens to Taliban in 2002 and then secretly started funding training them after 2003? when at that time Afghanistan had no relation with BLA or started any Pashtun separation movements?



You are going off-topic and have no clue what to say! that's from 2010 and it's 2012 I see Karzai is still in his office not in 'Quetta'!

Bacha baazi is everywhere in the world, you guys name it 'londay baazi' which is in the roots of every city of Pakistan

Apologies for going off-topic but Bacha baazi/londay baazi is still 100 times better than eating Donkey's meat in Punjab.

Eating donkey meat?

Well if you want to play that game I'm sure it's better than donkey baazi in Afghanistan.

I know what you guys like to do with donkey. What do they call in Kabul, Khar kuss?

 

[Sher Malang]

Evidence???

Hamid Gul: Taliban is the future - Focus - Al Jazeera English

Former Pakistan ISI Chief: Haqqani and Gulbudin both are both as patriotic Pakistani as I am - YouTube

Interview with Colonel Imam, mentor of mujahideen taliban - YouTube

BBC News - Pakistan's push for new role in Afghanistan

I lost the link to a video where your soldiers are giving arms to Taliban, will surely post that here once found!

Eating donkey meat?

Well if you want to play that game I'm sure it's better than donkey baazi in Afghanistan.

I know what you guys like to do with donkey. What do they call in Kabul, Khar kuss?

That's an abuse not something to eat, here;

Halal Donkey meat sale in Karachi Pakistan - YouTube

 

[KingMamba]

Hamid Gul: Taliban is the future - Focus - Al Jazeera English

Former Pakistan ISI Chief: Haqqani and Gulbudin both are both as patriotic Pakistani as I am - YouTube

Interview with Colonel Imam, mentor of mujahideen taliban - YouTube

BBC News - Pakistan's push for new role in Afghanistan

I lost the link to a video where your soldiers are giving arms to Taliban, will surely post that here once found!



That's an abuse not something to eat, here;

Halal Donkey meat sale in Karachi Pakistan - YouTube

Inside the taliban (national geographics) - YouTube

Dear Icewolf,

Precisely where do you think you’re going with this friend? Did you not know that historical Afghans had a tendency to attach the name of the province their leaders descended from at the end of their names? Hence, Muhammad e “Ghori” (from Afghanistan’s Ghor), or Sultan Mahmoud e Ghaznawi (from Afghanistan’s Ghazni)? But hey, if you’re referring to their descendants having been born among the ruled as your rulers, then try thinking about how screwed up that is. Both these rulers were brutal enough on fellow-Afghans themselves, but they are renowned for delivering the most extreme prejudice upon your ancestors in Sindh and the Punjab in particular. Are you not aware of this? When I see Pakistanis eulogize these Afghan rulers even to the extent that you actually take ownership over them, it’s suddenly as though you choose to escape the thoughts of immense humiliation they brought upon your ancestors. I suppose it’s easier to identify with your masters than to acknowledge the cowardice of your own people. If this is what they teach you in Pakistani schools, then I will tell you that your entire syllabus is based on lies, just like much of everything else in Pakistan. I still can not believe that many among your leaders insist upon telling you that the Taliban are an Afghan nationalist movement fighting for our freedoms.

As for Ahmed Shah Abdali, for starters, you are talking to a part descendant of the Durranis, which is what I am. Last I checked, no member of my family has every referred to ourselves as Punjabis, even if you are indeed referring to the heavily contentious historical argument that he was apparently born in Multan. I hope you realize that there are equally sources that claim that he was born in Herat, Afghanistan. After all, the Abdali tribes have historically been spread across from Kandahar to Herat. This is why they were recruited into the army of the Sunni Turkish Khorasani ruler, Nadir Quli Beg, given their geographic proximity to them. When Ahmed Shah Baba was crowned Amir, it all happened in Kandahar. But even still, it doesn’t matter one bit if he was indeed been born in Multan, for it would have surely been in the bosom of yet another Afghan ruler therein. However, if you really want to know how the Durranis viewed the Punjabis, try digesting the fact that Timur Shah ruled over those lands through his appointed Sikh – not Muslim – Governor, Ranjit Singh.

But if that doesn’t work for you, try going to Ghor, Ghazni or Kandahar as a Punjabi and declare those leaders as your own to the people therein and watch the reaction you’ll invite. I would tell you that the people would laugh you out of Afghanistan and no more so than the Kakos of Kandahar in particular. You people have been inflating your egos with nothing more than borrowed history from Afghanistan. Do you realize this friend?

In spite of all your leaders have done to Afghans by riding on the back of our war with the Soviets, the fact is that the more I learn about Pakistanis, the more I genuinely pity you.

Peace,

Loy Afghanistan

Dear Loy Afghanistan,

We Pakistanis could really care less about how you feel about us. You talk really big when your President doesn't even control his own country outside of Kabul and will probably be the first person to abandon ship come 2014.

Best Regards,
KingMamba93

 

[mjnaushad]

You must have read those posts here by members accepting openly the fact; I understand the elements of previous governments of Afghanistan were hostile to Pakistan but what is gone is gone then why did Pakistan secretly started giving safe heavens to Taliban in 2002 and then secretly started funding training them after 2003? when at that time Afghanistan had no relation with BLA or started any Pashtun separation movements?

Those posts are not facts but merely an opinion. As those comes as emotional outburst after so many sacrifices by Pakistan which are not recognized. Those opinions of Pakistanis are more like " After doing so much still no recognition i hope we are supporting taliban". What gone is gone but why is it not applicable on Pakistan than. Why we are always critisized for "what we did to Afghanistan"????

We did not gave any safe heavens to any taliban. Afghan Pakistan border has always stayed open. People come and go freely. We never had any military pressence there. If taliban took advantage of it and came here we responded it by sending military there and opening posts on the border (which we were replied by frindly bombings on those posts many times by "mistake".). You guys want us to water seal the border which can't happen based on ground realities. We also offerd many times full mining of border and barbed wire and walls. Your President rejected that offer too.

You must ask than why all media hype of ISI and Pakistan involvement .... why because the best motivation for NA warlords who now control ANA and are called generals to blame everything on Pakistan. That hate keeping them together. And they are Once again using that hate to keep things easy for them. (Just like in Pakistan's hate INDIA policy made many generals and politician go unaccountable). There were no strong BLA in 2002 but after current Afghan Govt took control of Afghanistan those movements only got stronger. And that is too a fact and should be considered. I dont have any proof or in other words articles as our spending on controlling westren media is not as much as of our "Allies". But I have my facts and my facts are not limited to news articles.

please stop fooling yourself, Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia...... The book of truth....Please stop fooling yourself.....