Chand dheaki k maslay per NASA ka jawab

[M. Sarmad]

On the contrary, every example used has a context , without which arguing over it is useless. Context is important. Also note i do not deny a single verse of the Holy Quran. It is my belief that the implementation of Holy Quran is in the life of the Prophet (PBUH). The Hadeeth i quoted has the same kind of supplementary proofs to support it. Such as it being used in modern days in many Muslim countries as well, without any controversy whatsoever.
If it is only the Quran we are talking about, it does not show you the method of praying. Similarly many other concepts were established through Sunnah. Not the Quran alone(though it was very easy for the Lord to explain everything in minute detail, but in His infinite wisdom he deemed it not necessary)

It's not about the context. Either you go for literal interpretation or you don't.
As for the Holy Qur'an, it sure is enough .... But that's not the topic here

 

[criticalerror]

It's not about the context. Either you go for literal interpretation or you don't.
As for the Holy Qur'an, it sure is enough .... But that's not the topic here

Context. I think I already explained. Also , the Quran says nothing about how to establish the month of Ramzan. I believe that was your argument. It is not “enough “ in the sense you are trying to say. Rather it enjoins to follow the Prophet (PBUH). How else will you follow the Prophet (PBUH) if not his Sunnah? And what is his Sunnah established by?

..So fear Allah and amend that which is between you and obey Allah and His Messenger, if you should be believers.

Quran 8:1

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."

Quran 4:59

As i told you before, if you will only quote the Quran then we have no debate.

 

[Cent4]

No one has any shame to travel on camels, horses or even donkeys, many people in pakistan still use all these animals for transport purposes.

Where exactly in Pakistan.

Give me an example of a place where there are roods and people have cars/bike but chose to travel on camels/horses/donkeys ?

 

[Cent4]

Hypocrisy at its highest by us Muslims.
We can use the “technology” to find out the exact time for Seher and iftar but not for moon sighting

 

[criticalerror]

Hypocrisy at its highest by us Muslims.
We can use the “technology” to find out the exact time for Seher and iftar but not for moon sighting

No one is advocating not using technology. It is using ONLY technology as the main argument, that’s undesirable according to Hanbali school of thought and impermissible according to Hanafi and the rest schools of thought.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Context. I think I already explained. Also , the Quran says nothing about how to establish the month of Ramzan. I believe that was your argument. It is not “enough “ in the sense you are trying to say. Rather it enjoins to follow the Prophet (PBUH). How else will you follow the Prophet (PBUH) if not his Sunnah? And what is his Sunnah established by?

..So fear Allah and amend that which is between you and obey Allah and His Messenger, if you should be believers.

Quran 8:1

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.[1]"

Quran 4:59

As i told you before, if you will only quote the Quran then we have no debate.

Obeying Allah and his messenger simply means following the Holy Qur'an... But as I said earlier, that is an entirely different debate. Let's not derail this thread.

And you didn't explain anything. You insisted that the word "Sighting" in the Hadith in question must be interpreted literally. I disagreed, and pointed it out to you that literal interpretations of Islamic texts may have some serious implications.

 

[313ghazi]

Fawwad Ch is root of this evil being discussed here. He should have waited before announcing this half-cocked methodology. If he were so confident, he would not have sent it to the CII for approval. Also it is my opinion that his heart is in the right place about this. His execution leaves alot to be desired.

He is an opportunist. He decided to use this issue to score a quick win and his ego made it an own goal.

Like I said in the UK we have used this moonsighting data for decades. We use it to verify the validity of sighting and to provide guidance on when Eid will be. We've been pretty certain for a couple of weeks it will be Wednesday (based on the very same moonsighting data he's using) but official announcement will be tomorrow night (although brothers who follow the Saudi sighting will be doing Eid tomorrow).

Had he announced the data would be used to project and help determine the validity of the sightings (aka popalzai or Munib Ur Rehmans extra long Ramadan) then nobody would be arguing. Instead he chose to make it personal and claim it would replace the sunnah. If he had any sense he'd backtrack to that position and also ask for photographic evidence of sightings made when the science suggests its not possible.

Like you I am a man of science. He meanwhile is a clumsy, opportunist politician.

 

[ProudPak]

Exactly, sighting is the sunnah, it should be done.

Tech has a role to play in supporting the sighting, helping to indentify best times, locations, feasability of successful sighting, but the sighting is the sunnah, not the birth of the new moon.

So is riding a camel. But bro u use a car dont u

 

[criticalerror]

Obeying Allah and his messenger simply means following the Holy Qur'an... But as I said earlier, that is an entirely different debate. Let's not derail this thread.

And you didn't explain anything. You insisted that the word "Sighting" in the Hadith in question must be interpreted literally. I disagreed, and pointed it out to you that literal interpretations of Islamic texts may have some serious implications.

No it means Obeying Allah through His words in the Quran and the Prophet (PBUH) through his Sunnah. This is a topic already established, you can read interpretations of this from whoever you please. You cannot obey the Prophet (PBUH) if you do not have his commands and examples from his life. Also you sideskipped my question on Salah. How was it’s method established and is still used today?

I explained that if you will ONLY QUOTE the Quran then we have no debate since you very obviously do not believe in Hadeeth. This is inferred from

Obeying Allah and his messenger simply means following the Holy Qur'an

 

[criticalerror]

So is riding a camel. But bro u use a car dont u

Camel riding has no bearing on religion. Moon sighting does.

 

[313ghazi]

So is riding a camel. But bro u use a car dont u

Bhai, Ive answered this so many times I feel I should buy a camel. Please read my latest post.

I dont oppose the use of science, I have used it myself to verify moonsighting.

 

[xyxmt]

No the simplest one would be to sight the moon. The scientific one requires calculations and what not.

Telescopes are scientific instruments which can zoom the moon 1000 times and would have been impossible to see with naked eyes.

 

[The Accountant]

Guys we are doing the same mistake done by our previous generations ...

Sunnah is to follow the moon and its not about the method of viewing it ... so why do we use binoculars as it facilitates the sighting similarly if we can calculate the moon sighting by computing its movement then i feel it should be fine as we are not breaking the sunah of celebrating eid with new moon but we are just adopting the more accurate of viewing the moon

 

[criticalerror]

Telescopes are scientific instruments which can zoom the moon 1000 times and would have been impossible to see with naked eyes.

They are still not simple. Going outside and sighting with the naked eye is still “the simplest” method.

 

[M. Sarmad]

No it means Obeying Allah through His words in the Quran and the Prophet (PBUH) through his Sunnah. This is a topic already established, you can read interpretations of this from whoever you please. You cannot obey the Prophet (PBUH) if you do not have his commands and examples from his life. Also you sideskipped my question on Salah. How was it’s method established and is still used today?

I explained that if you will ONLY QUOTE the Quran then we have no debate since you very obviously do not believe in Hadeeth. This is inferred from

Again, open a new thread if you want to discuss that.

This thread is about Sighting of the moon. And I believe both of us have already made clear our point of views. You are advocating literal interpretation of Hadith texts, I have argued otherwise.

Regards.