Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21

[Guynextdoor2]

Actually you can read Parikkar's comments many ways but one of the most important things he has said is that no deal has been agreed to, not even for the 36 planes being mentioned. What has been put forward is a proposal to buy & that will have to pass through negotiations, If the deal does go through, there might be an additional quantity at some time which I don't think will ever exceed half of what is in the MMRCA contract. Parikkar is politely burying the MMRCA contract & making it clear that the french will now be playing with the Russians & maybe even the Americans for any future buy. I wouldn't be surprised to see additional planes from Russia being ordered to make up for the numbers..

I sincerely hope that is not the case. A single large deal is the best option for achieving our many objectives at a reasonable cost.

 

[Windjammer]

the Rafales are already chosen over rest

It was 126 not 36. !!

 

[Emmie]

accountability??
yeh konsi chiriya ka naam hae,,,,,yeh India me nahi milta

Mein ne bhi is chirya ke bare mein suna hy dekha nahi hay, hamare pass bhi yeh chirya nahi pai jati.

 

[v9s]

New Delhi: In a surprising decision which is likely to have a major impact on the Indian Air Force (IAF), the Centre has scrapped the $20 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal for purchase of 126 Rafale fighter jets signed by the previous United Progressive Alliance government. Speaking to CNN-IBN, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar claimed that Rafale fighters cannot replace the ageing MiG-21 which will be phased out in the next 6-10 years.

Parrikar said that India's indigenous Light Combat aircraft Tejas will replace MiG 21 as both are almost of the same category while the Rafale is a much bigger jet with a bigger range and more weapons carrying capabilities.

On charges made by senior Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader Subramanian Swamy that the Rafale deal is not in India's interest, the Defence Minister said that he will explain to his colleague the entire scenario and that Swamy's reaction was based on instant news.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said Rafale jets cannot replace the ageing MiG-21 which will be phased out in the next 6-10 years.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his recent visit to France negotiated with the government there to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition under a new deal. After meeting French President Francois Hollande in Paris on April 11, Modi announced that IAF would get 36 Rafale jets.

But Swamy termed the new Rafale fighter jet deal between India and France a case of arbitrariness. Swamy is yet to decide on what action to take over Modi government's decision to purchase 36 aircraft from France.

Swamy said, "I have not yet decided on whether to approach the court. I am waiting for papers on the new Rafael deal. It prima facie appears to be a case of arbitrariness." Swamy requested Modi not to go ahead with the Rafale deal, which was negotiated by the previous UPA government, and said the performance of the French jet "turned out to be worst of all the aircraft" in Libya and Egypt.

IAF had shortlisted the Rafale fighter under the MMRCA deal after a close competition which also saw Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, Mikoyan MiG-35 and Saab JAS 39 Gripen in the race. While Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, Mikoyan MiG-35 and Saab JAS 39 Gripen were eliminated very early, Dassault Rafale edged out the Eurofighter Typhoon in the final negotiation.

At present the IAf has just 34 fighter squadrons against the ideal 45 squadrons required to take on the threat from both Pakistan and China simultaneously. The ageing MiG-21 and MiG-27 planes are being phased out which will see the IAF strength depleting by at least eight more squadrons.

Under the deal, India was to get only 18 Rafale directly while the rest 108 fighters were to be manufactured by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. But the final deal between India and France was stuck over who would be responsible for the manufacturers' guarantee on 108 jets which were to be built HAL. India wanted Rafale maker Dassault Aviation to take full responsibility which the latter had not agreed to.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

India to Sign Rafale Contract By June
(Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; published April 13, 2015)

Compiled by Defense-Aerospace.com

PARIS --- French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian is to shortly travel to India to iron out the details of the direct sale of 36 Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force, with a view to signing the contract during the Paris air show in mid-June.

Negotiations will continue in parallel for the local production of at least 108 Rafale in India, although it can no longer be assumed that state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will be automatically involved.

Dassault had originally planned to team with India’s privately-owned Reliance group and, in the wake of the April 10 announcement of a direct purchase, HAL officials made remarkably lackadaisical statements to Indian media.

“We did not initiate any concrete step at the HAL for manufacturing the planes here”,one HAL official told the India Tribune, adding that “After all, there was never much clarity on whether the deal with Rafale would be finally signed.” The official also revealed that HAL had done remarkably little to prepare for Rafale production: “There was never any question of acquiring land or bring together a team for MMRCA”, he said.

Given that Egypt, which has just ordered 24 Rafales, and India are both in a hurry to receive their aircraft, France will turn over to them its next 49 delivery slots, and will resume its own deliveries after 2019. Dassault currently builds Rafales at a rate of 11 a year, and needs about three years to double it.

Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar told reporters in New Delhi on Saturday that "It may take two to two-and-a-half years to get the first plane……Fly-away means not tomorrow, it has to be designed as per India's need, plus there is a requirement of working out the price” which he also said would be about 4 billion euros.

The production bottleneck could tighten over those three years if, as implied April 12 by French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, talks with the United Arab Emirates -- which are progressing well, he said – lead to a third Rafale export contract this year.

This is the passage of the French-India joint communiqué issued on April 10, after visiting Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi met with French President François Hollande:

“14. Government of India conveyed to the Government of France that in view of the critical operational necessity for Multirole Combat Aircraft for Indian Air Force, Government of India would like to acquire [36] Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible.

“The two leaders agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway (Emphasis added—Ed.); the delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF; and that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.”

As we noted on Friday, a direct purchase will resolve most of the bottlenecks that have blocked the MMRCA contract negotiations over the past three years, and which mostly focus on the price of the 108 Indian-made aircraft and on who would provide their contractual warranty.

The fundamental problem, however, is that by codifying and closely regulating as many aspects of defense procurement as it could, India’s previous government created a web of red tape so complex and so arcane that mutually-acceptable defense deals have become virtually impossible.

Another – and so far unsaid - factor is that HAL’s work-force is not yet capable of assembling aircraft as advanced as Rafale, and the Indian government appears to have realized that it was insisting on an expensive and time-consuming industrial fantasy that it would probably be unable to implement in the short term.

Finally, a direct purchase would elegantly sidestep thorny coproduction issues, give India fixed, firm prices guaranteed by the French government, and relieve the current pressure to conclude a license production agreement that suits neither side.

India to Sign Rafale Contract By June

 

[duhastmish]

Since India has been purchasing a lot US equipment specially for the IAF, the Americans would have been very keen for a chunk of MMRCA deal, i wouldn't be surprised if India keeps the Americans happy by acquiring a few squadrons of say FA/18s or something.

That would be dumbest idea. Since f35 is too expensive and will take much time to delivery. F18 and f16 production lines almost at end. Also they have reached their epitome.

Best option would have been a friendly germany supplying BAE typhoon. Rafael was always too expensive for a developing country even cash rich countries not buying it.

Now most fan boys will shout about 36 jets but I doubt real impact against a big fleet of cheaper j10. India won't get much of tot on which most kids were harping since 2005.

The best that can be extracted out is a Jv in engine technology. Also materials.

 

[#hydra#]

He said "Further purchases" so chances that 36 is final number is low. Interviewer asked him about 90 jets and he replied about 126 so it is not clear how many, at what condition, Made in India or France those jets will be.


Mig-21's were anyway slated to be replaced by LCA. MMRCA was adding new capabilities to IAF. LCA itself and AMCA would benefit from TOT from Rafael, though if rest of the jets are not made in India, HAL would not benefit much from TOT.

French govt can't dictate dassault for make India project,if we approach french govt for rafale to make in India then I am 200% sure that either dassault will come up with there present terms and conditions or more stringent one.

 

[cerberus]

It was 126 not 36. !!

Numbers are not confirmed (apart from 36) future purchase of rafale will be through Gtg route that is confirmed by DM in Personal interview with DD News.MMRCA is scarped New deal with Gtg route will be on Play

 

[anant_s]

Well More rafales will come like it or not. & if the news is correct it certainly implies that MMRCA negotiations were not going in direction desired by government. The part that further Rafales will come through G2G deals also indicates that perhaps there is little that can achieved through negotiations and no point lingering on. let call it quits and get the fighter that IAF requires through next best route available.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Rafale, though important, not the only choice
New Delhi, April 13

India on Monday announced it has set out on a new path to meet the critical shortage of the Indian Air Force fighter jets. The purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets in a fly-away condition from Dassault Aviation of France, announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Paris on April 10, will form an important choice but will not be the only choice.

Buying more of the Rafale or ‘making in India’ will depend upon negotiations of the two governments. New Delhi and Paris have announced a government-to-government deal for purchase of 36 of the twin-engine Rafale.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today explained, to the media, how the deal will progress. The global tender to buy a medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) floated in 2007 to buy 126 planes had been shelved. “If this route (government-to-government) is followed, then it’s obvious, a car cannot travel on two different routes. In the tender process there were lot of issues and troubles. The tender has gone into a vortex.” The direct deal is working out to be less costly.

The Rafale was selected as lowest bidder in the tender but issues had cropped up as it did not want to stand guarantee for the 108 planes to be made by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and HAL’s high production costs.

On being asked if the government would be looking to get the previous target of 126 planes, Parikkar answered: “Not necessarily that will depend on government-to-government discussion. We may not go for full 126. We may decide a different number also.” This was the clear signal that India would be hedging its bets rather than look at Rafale alone. “I will not speculate or reveal any further,” Parrikar said when asked if New Delhi would be looking at other planes of the same kind and capability.

“Even the target of 126 was financially a steep climb,” Parrikar said in note of realism. Each Rafale costs about Rs 760-775 crore. On being asked if Rafale will be made in India, the Defence Minister said, “I have not excluded the Make in India, but that will depend on how we negotiate.” Under the tender 18 planes were to be in a fly-away condition, the next 18 were to be in the form of completely knocked down kits.

The future path
Parrikar was clear that future shortage of fighter jets that will occur due to phasing out of the MiG 21 and MiG 27 will be met by a mix and match of the Rafale, the Russian built Sukhoi-30 MKI and indigenous Light Combat Aircraft, the Tejas and hinge upon life extension to the MiG-21.

The IAF needs 42 combat squadrons (18 planes in each) to tackle a simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China.

“The LCA will fill in the gaps in six months. Another 72 Sukhoi-30 MKI are on order (in addition to the existing fleet of 198),” he said. In two to three years some eight new squadrons will join, two of the LCA, two of the Rafale and four of the Sukhoi. In the next 4-5 years we can add six or seven squadrons of the LCA, which is better than the MiG 21.

India, he said, was not scaling down from the projection of 42 squadrons. “We can achieve that target over the next 8-10 years. When 42 squadrons were projected the missile technology was low and now we are doing very well in missile technology.”

Rafale, though important, not the only choice

 

[rockstarIN]

I think it's a good way to get rafale after 2 years for alt least till 2020. Till then we will come to know the capabilities aka chances of tejas mk2 . If it's good enough, there ends the rafale saga and Amca will start. Else follow up order for one or two squadrons.

 

[anant_s]

Any Future Rafale Jet Purchases Will be Government-to-Government, Says India
All India | Reuters | Updated: April 13, 2015 19:14 IST

A Rafale fighter jet performs during the Aero India air show at Yelahanka air base in Bengaluru February 18, 2015. (Reuters)



NEW DELHI: Any future purchases of Rafale fighter jets will be through direct negotiations with the French government, said Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today, calling into question an ongoing commercial negotiation with Dassault Aviation for 126 aircraft.

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday announced a plan to buy 36 ready-to-fly jets from Dassault through the government-to-government route to modernise an ageing fleet.


Defence Minister Parrikar said the PM's decision came after the commercial negotiation went into a "vortex," but stopped short of saying the government had scrapped the negotiation for a contract with Dassault, worth up to $20 billion.




On the weekend, Mr Parrikar had said that India will not receive its first Rafale fighter jet for up to two and a half years and tricky issues including pricing must still be worked out. While the order is meant to be delivered as soon as possible, terms and conditions of the deal - estimated at about $4.25 billion - have yet to be worked out.

India and France have negotiated for Rafale fighters for three years. A 2012 agreement to buy 126 jets stalled over cost and a dispute over the assembly of 108 aircraft in India.

Half of India's fighters are due to retire by 2024. Military officials have warned that the air force's reliance on a disparate fleet of Russian-made MiG and French Mirage fighters, along with modern Russian Sukhoi Su-30s, has made it vulnerable.

The Rafale fighters are expected to replace some of the MiGs and Mirage jets.

© Thomson Reuters 2015

Any Future Rafale Jet Purchases Will be Government-to-Government, Says India

 

[#hydra#]

Numbers are not confirmed (apart from 36) future purchase of rafale will be through Gtg route that is confirmed by DM in Personal interview with DD News.MMRCA is scarped New deal with Gtg route will be on Play

buddy so far we didn't make any deal for single rafale,the mentioned future purchase means the announced 36 rafale jets.that's all.but it will be good if we go for 72 instead of mere 36.

 

[cerberus]

buddy so far we didn't make any deal for single rafale,the mentioned future purchase means the announced 36 rafale jets.that's all.but it will be good if we go for 72 instead of mere 36.

MMrca is scrapped we will go for rafales better by Gtg the new is more rafale is confirmed by DM if you Seen the DD News Interview

 

[#hydra#]

That would be dumbest idea. Since f35 is too expensive and will take much time to delivery. F18 and f16 production lines almost at end. Also they have reached their epitome.

Best option would have been a friendly germany supplying BAE typhoon. Rafael was always too expensive for a developing country even cash rich countries not buying it.

Now most fan boys will shout about 36 jets but I doubt real impact against a big fleet of cheaper j10. India won't get much of tot on which most kids were harping since 2005.

The best that can be extracted out is a Jv in engine technology. Also materials.

Best solution is mki sd version of su34

MMrca is scrapped we will go for rafales better by Gtg the new is more rafale is confirmed by DM if you Seen the DD News Interview

I fear that number is just 36, because any gigantic purchase should have tot otherwise cag will screw all the people involved in this deal.