Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21

[Last Samuri]

 

[R@m-R@heem]

I don't give a f00k. The clowns were staking their claims for permanent membership in UNSC but can't close a freaking 20bn dollar deal.. Goes to show how much they deserve it.

..
No.. Actually we NEEDED it as an operational necessity.. Hence we went for it in a G2G route.. The RFP route was very tedious and still called for further negotiations..
Also, its price was coming out to to momentous.. India could do better to put that money developing a 5th gen fighter with the Russians than simply take a French TOT.. That too when they were least ready..

 

[GORKHALI]

Bhayo, timi calculation kanh se sikha??? 44+36=80..

Pi rakhi hei kya???
No offence. lol

Arey sorry yaar was thinking something else while typing.

Ignore him, he generates what he consumes.

When you cant contribute anything substantial then why swarmin around and reply to you troll.We know pakistani pilots and their Gazawa hind force before and their bravery.

 

[black-hawk_101]

This means that now IAF might not be buying the 60 Rafaels?

 

[#hydra#]

Depends on which type of Radar is in question.

Terrain maps are important for low level flights, which IAF is moving away with High Altitude PGM delivery modes, on all it's platforms, along with Litening III pods,

Low Level terrain flying mode is no longer a very effective method to penetrate enemy radar system, With Shorad systems net centric Awacs, low flying objects are easy to mitigate in this day and age.

OKayz....
One more thing,heard that iaf want to get rid of its 100+ mig27 by 2017,so which aircraft is gonna replace mig27?or which one suits more?

 

[Kinetic]

 

[Last Samuri]

Very very very nice addition to Indian air power

 

[kaku1]

This means that now IAF might not be buying the 60 Rafaels?

Nope 189, but in different tranche.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

My hunch :

We will buy two more tranches of rafales. Of 36. Total rafales : 6 sqds.

72 Of the f3r standards. No ToT.

We will look for a partner for tejas make 2.

This government just got serious with tejas.

If the rafale deal says anything, It says that India is not up for wasting money.

Which means more money for tejas.

Did u guys miss one thing ?

He said it twice. Tejas will replace mig 21. Indication.

 

[saurav]

Good decision... Induct Rafale in limited number as a gap filler and induct LCA in big numbers .

BTW some individuals will get calls from Dassault for the money back.. Nicely played Modi Saab.

 

[MilSpec]

Sir what's in your opinion is the best way forward if this deal is scrapped

In my opinion we need about 45 sqdns to mitigate most our strategic risks.45 sqdns translates to roughly 810 to 900 combat aircrafts depending on the squadron structure of 18- 20 aircrafts.

Let’s look at confirmed book orders and inducted aircrafts that will stay for the next 15 years.

Sure numbers for Su30 MKI – 272 units

Mirage 2000I – 59

Mig29 UPG – 69

Rafale – 36

Sepecat Jag – 145

LCA Mk1 + LSP – 80 (6 sqdns confirmed)

LCA Mk2 – 40 (2 Sqdns confirmed)

Total ( 701 – Platforms confirmed by 2022-23 Provided Hal can crank 15 LCA’s/ yr)

So we will have around 680 combat platforms – (20 units for attrition) i.e confirmed 34 to 37 squadron strength on the current book order. Our shortfall will remain of around 200 aircrafts (10 sqdns), which is exactly the shortfall the MMRCA was supposed to fill. Along with that we also need to look at future replacement of Mirage 2k, Mig 29’s and Jaguars which will see their end in 15 -20 years, Jaguars might last a little longer due to its airframe life and engine retrofit.

So we have a gap of around 200 aircrafts in 10-15 years and another 268 aircrafts in 20-25 years

Although this arithmetic seems simple, in reality decommissioning doesn’t happen overnight and neither are sqdns built overnight. It is a constant cycle which has ability to cope up shortfalls on a regular basis. People will be surprised to know that Mig 23’s operated well beyond it’s so-called date of decommissioning. So more or less some platforms may end their life before projected estimate like the Mig27m’s some might keep going on like the Mig21’s.


In all we would need to plan for about additional 200 aircrafts in next 10 years and another 250-300 aircrafts in 20 years.

For the next 10 year’s- LCA quota is already filled up with 120 aircrafts for the airforce and additional IN numbers that I don’t recall. So I don’t think there is any scope of adding additional LCA’s mk1/2 as a solution to MMRCA cancelled.

Next is PMF FGFA; Su30MKI production line will continue upto 2018-2019. HAL Nasik division will take about 1-2 years to setup the new production line and mfg planning along with maintaining the Overhaul line for MKI. So even if everything works like clockwork you wont see more than 50 PFM FGFA made in india by 2025, with another say 50 aircrafts from Russia, we will still face a gap of 5 squadrons.

Option 1. Do nothing: 40 Squadron (including 5 sqdns of 5th gen a/c) with a deficit of 5 squadrons is not a bad situation at all.

40 squadrons with 80% service rate is better than 50 squadrons with 50% service rate. 140 aircrafts better.

Option 2. Import platform with existing Supply chain: MKI and/or Rafale. Say additional 2 sqdns of rafale and 3 sqdns of MKI.


20 Year projection:

Shortfall of 268 aircrafts – Mirage + Mig29+ Jaguar Obsolescence

Option 1.

Upgraded LCA tranche 3 (or whatever would be at that time) replacement for Jaguar and Mirage – 10 sqdns

If AMCA still exists or FGFA replacement for Mig 29 – 5 Sqdns


Option 2.

F35 JSF – 5 Sqdns

FGFA – 10 sqdns.

 

[airmarshal]

India buying off the shelf means that France is not willing to transfer technology India thought it will get.

 

[MilSpec]

India buying off the shelf means that France is not willing to transfer technology India thought it will get.

If researched adequately, you will know exactly the bone of contention for the project. But I highly doubt that's your intent.

My hunch :

We will buy two more tranches of rafales. Of 36. Total rafales : 6 sqds.

72 Of the f3r standards. No ToT.

We will look for a partner for tejas make 2.

This government just got serious with tejas.

If the rafale deal says anything, It says that India is not up for wasting money.

Which means more money for tejas.

Did u guys miss one thing ?

He said it twice. Tejas will replace mig 21. Indication.

This was decided long ago.
IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs | Business Standard News

 

[Luca1]

that means 10 years wasted and that could had been the time in which we could had made a lot better plane if we had put in the effort......such a big blunder.......I hope we can procure 4 squadrons of rafale and put rest of the money in AMCA and "NOT FGFA" and i mean purely AMCA, so that future air force pilots have no reason to kill home made bird.......RIP to MMRCA......Pakistani's would be happy now

I had suggested this a while back but I was called a troll. Never mind. You are right that. India should focus on developing its own platform.

 

[MilSpec]

OKayz....
One more thing,heard that iaf want to get rid of its 100+ mig27 by 2017,so which aircraft is gonna replace mig27?or which one suits more?

Yes most Mig27M platforms will be progressively retired starting this year will stay in service upto 2017-18.

On thing i would like to mention here is that, IAF fills out capabilities of de-commissioned aircraft, not the aircraft itself. So Mig 27 replacement necessarily doesn't need a A2G replacement platform, multirole replacement from MKI or rafale or even LCA might fill its' capability.
But in terms of numbers Bulk of A2G missions will be taken over solely by Multirole aircrafts in form of MKI, Rafale, LCA.
Jags will maintain it's current profile.