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[turkbordobereli]

Yarışta Düştüm motoru hiç Bırakmadım stop ettirmedim hemen kalkıp Yarışa Devam Ettim Allaha Şükür İkinci Kez Podyuma çıkarak ve Şanlı Türk Bayrağımızı Dalgalandırarak İstiklal marşımızı söyleterek Birincilik ve Üçüncülük Kupası İle Ülkeme Dönüyorum Beni Seven Destekleyen ve Takip Eden Herkese çok çok Teşekkür Ederim !!!!
Toprak Razgatlıoğlu..

Full Support !!

 

[T-123456]

@Bismarck gratuliere,das beste team hat gewonnen!!!

 

[N.Ozkan]

A quickie while flying towards Istanbul. Damn nice to see Turkish Stars NF-5's parked outside for people to see Also saw the freshly acquired AWACS, plus two E-3 Sentry's in NATO livery. Guess they are long stay guests

Kesinlikle Karadeniz.

Bende oraya doğru yöneliyorum hocam internet sıkıntımı çözmek için bir fikriniz var mıdır? Telefona net lazım oluyor alışkanlık olmuş..

 

[Hakan]

Deutchland ist der world meister

@Götterdämmerung @Bismarck @MarkusS

How is my deutch? I think it is shiize.

 

[ASQ-1918]

@rmi5, @Targon

Safavids used the title of "Bahadur Khan".

Sahib-i-Qiran, Sultan bar Salatin, ‘Abu’l Muzaffar ‘Abu’l Fath Sultan Shah Tahmasp bin Shah Ismail al-Safavi al-Husayni al-Musavi Bahadur Khan, Shahanshah of Persia.

http://www.royalark.net/Persia/safawi3.htm

 

[rmi5]

@rmi5, @Targon

Safavids used the title of "Bahadur Khan".



http://www.royalark.net/Persia/safawi3.htm

what does this Bahadur Khan referring to?
Sultan i Sahib Qaran, was always used by Naser al-din shah Qajar as well. al-husayni and al-musavi mean that they are descendants of Imam Hussein, and Imam Mousa Kazim. But, what this Bahadur Khan is referring to? I think it should refer to one of their ancestors, since it is mentioned next to Al-musavi and Al-Husayni

 

[ASQ-1918]

Yes, that part is clearly referring to ancestry, it comes together with al-Safavi, al-Husayni and al-Musavi. These were ancestries claimed by Shah Ismail. Shah Ismail had direct Bayandur Oghuz ancestry via his Aq-Qoyunlu half, so it's evident that he claimed Turkic ancestry in addition to Seyid ancestry (and he had grounds and reasons to do so).

 

[KingMamba]

what does this Bahadur Khan referring to?
Sultan i Sahib Qaran, was always used by Naser al-din shah Qajar as well. al-husayni and al-musavi mean that they are descendants of Imam Hussein, and Imam Mousa Kazim. But, what this Bahadur Khan is referring to? I think it should refer to one of their ancestors, since it is mentioned next to Al-musavi and Al-Husayni

It is probably just a title, usually Eastern Muslim monarchs use such titles at the end. Bahadur Khan could just mean the brave King or leader, other similar titles that come to mind that are put at the end are Ghazi, Billah, Zillulah, etc.

Al Husayni followed by al Musavi is how Syeds denote their ancestry at most in South Asia they might also add what part of the world they migrated from but nothing more afaik so it is probably the same in Iran as well.

Yes, that part is clearly referring to ancestry, it comes together with al-Safavi, al-Husayni and al-Musavi. These were ancestries claimed by Shah Ismail. Shah Ismail had direct Bayandur Oghuz ancestry via his Aq-Qoyunlu half, so it's evident that he claimed Turkic ancestry in addition to Seyid ancestry (and he had grounds and reasons to do so).

What were his main reasons?

 

[ASQ-1918]

It is probably just a title.

Both a title and something he (and his descendents) used to denote his Turkic ancestry.

What were his main reasons?

The early Safavid policies was built upon alliance with Turkic tribes.

 

[rmi5]

Yes, that part is clearly referring to ancestry, it comes together with al-Safavi, al-Husayni and al-Musavi. These were ancestries claimed by Shah Ismail. Shah Ismail had direct Bayandur Oghuz ancestry via his Aq-Qoyunlu half, so it's evident that he claimed Turkic ancestry in addition to Seyid ancestry (and he had grounds and reasons to do so).

Then, the Khan title is also referring to his ancestor and not himself something like Qajar Royal family who had this Khan title, before they reach to the throne. Even now, we have last names with Khan, or Khan -e- Kalantar inside the Qajar tribe which refers to their high status in the ruling time of Qajar empire, but, the emperor, himself, was not using this title, except for Agha Mohammad Khan.

 

[KingMamba]

Both a title and something he (and his descendents) used to denote his Turkic ancestry.



The early Safavid policies was built upon alliance with Turkic tribes.

Interesting, so does Khan still denote Turkic ancestry in Iran? I know in Afghanistan and South Asia many people use Khan but they use it because of its royal meaning not claiming Turkic ancestry although some tribes may have Turkic ancestry going farther back.

I knew Safavids had alliance with the Qizilbash Shia but why would adding Hashemite legacy mean anything? The Qizilbash already helped them and secondly everyone knew their lineage was not true.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Then, the Khan title is also referring to his ancestor and not himself something like Qajar Royal family who had this Khan title, before they reach to the throne. Even now, we have last names with Khan, or Khan -e- Kalantar inside the Qajar tribe which refers to their high status in the ruling time of Qajar empire, but, the emperor, himself, was not using this title, except for Agha Mohammad Khan.

Bahadur Khan is definetly a title. In his letters to chiefs of Turkic tribes, for example to Karamanoglu or Dulqadir Beyliks, he don't use "Shanshah of Iran", but only Abu Muzaffar Ismail Bahadur Khan. But it's evident that he also used this to denote his Turkic ancestry.

 

[rmi5]

It is probably just a title, usually Eastern Muslim monarchs use such titles at the end. Bahadur Khan could just mean the brave King or leader, other similar titles that come to mind that are put at the end are Ghazi, Billah, Zillulah, etc.

No, Khan has originally a turkic-mongolian root. It is not about islam, even the emperor of China was referred to as Khaghan, by us, in the medieval times.

Al Husayni followed by al Musavi is how Syeds denote their ancestry at most in South Asia they might also add what part of the world they migrated from but nothing more afaik so it is probably the same in Iran as well.

Al-Musavi >> descendant of Imam Mousa Kazim
Al-Husayni >> descendant of Imam Hussain
Alavi >> sometimes descendant of Imam Ali
Al-Hasani >> descendant of Imam Hasan
Al-Razavi >> descendant of Imam Reza
Tabatabai >> Both of your parents are Sayyid
Sayid >> Your father is a descendants of Shia Imams
Mirza >> Your Mother is a descendants of Shia Imams
having two of these titles, means that you have both connection to shia Imams

What were his main reasons?

Because they were Sayyids?

 

[telkon]

what does this Bahadur Khan referring to?
Sultan i Sahib Qaran, was always used by Naser al-din shah Qajar as well. al-husayni and al-musavi mean that they are descendants of Imam Hussein, and Imam Mousa Kazim. But, what this Bahadur Khan is referring to? I think it should refer to one of their ancestors, since it is mentioned next to Al-musavi and Al-Husayni

Baghadur is a turko-mongol word meaning brave, warrior. Was used widely throughout middle ages among turkic muslim rulers. Almost all bukharian and khivan khans used it. Several kashgar khans also used this epithet.

 

[rmi5]

Bahadur Khan is definetly a title. In his letters to chiefs of Turkic tribes, for example to Karamanoglu or Dulqadir Beyliks, he don't use "Shanshah of Iran", but only Abu Muzaffar Ismail Bahadur Khan. But it's evident that he also used this to denote his Turkic ancestry.

That's right, but it still refers to the name and the title of his ancestor, which it has been Turkic. Otherwise, his ancestors would not have this "Khan" title. Other nomadic tribes of Iran, like Kurds, and ... had their own titles for their head of the tribe.