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Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

We are buyers not beggars :lol:

The buyers might have missed a trick here.

IMO

Hal is currently producing SU30 MKI's on theother hand working on LCA and AMCA, this increases the work load and causes delays. If IAF would have purchased more Mirage 2k's and locally upgraded them to the level of say 9's this would have increased the capacity building of Hal. The delay in Rafale deal would have been addressed.

As far as Pak-FA is concerned it was know to take more time. This aircraft was to the first new aircraft to be produced by Russia. Russia was struggling since the end of Cold War in all aspects be it economy, work force or technology. Still India opted to become a 50-50 partner which was good as India hoped that Russia would shift some of the development work to India but this did not happen. Reasons better know to Russia.

Now if India backs off from this deal it would have some options but those would take some time to mature but at what cost?

India should be looking not just at Rafale but also other 5thGen fighter aircraft like the F35 or the Japanese one.

One should know that all this does for buyers is delay and "Time Is Money".
 
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Indians can't wait for too long before all their planes are crashed.

Indians are getting arrogant. They need a good smacking to put them in their place. Russians should give them the middle finger and tell them to go screwed themselves. Indians are too cheap anyway and have no choice but crawling back to the Russians to beg for the 5gen fighters.
 
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And what alternates do we take? Knowing how useful HAL and ADA are, AMCA will take at least 50 years if they go at it alone.
Otherwise we will have to pull Israel in on the AMCA project if we have to get it on time and based on the design shown in various air shows.

Not much I suppose. Joint Venture for AMCA is need of the hour.
If RuAF inducts pakfa by 2018 & we have to wait till 2025, thts not a fair deal.
:close_tema: :flame:
 
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While Tejas MK-1 is surely a disappointment Tejas MK 2 will surely be a success

Indians had been saying that for the last 30 years, claiming LCA as the 4++ gen superduper fighter, on paper. What make MK 2 any different? Your saying MK 2 will surely be a success is like farting in the wind, hot air got blown away easily.
 
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And what alternates do we take? Knowing how useful HAL and ADA are, AMCA will take at least 50 years if they go at it alone.
Otherwise we will have to pull Israel in on the AMCA project if we have to get it on time and based on the design shown in various air shows.

Aur rakho quota system haar jagah par,yeh toh hona hi tha.
 
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Hal is currently producing SU30 MKI's on theother hand working on LCA and AMCA, this increases the work load and causes delays. If IAF would have purchased more Mirage 2k's and locally upgraded them to the level of say 9's this would have increased the capacity building of Hal. The delay in Rafale deal would have been addressed.
HAL is just manufacturing LCA and Sukhoi-30 mki.ADA is the research agency here.Full fledged work has not been started yet so your work pressure logic is not correct.
Secondly RAFALE is majorly aimed at China so we wanted a pure kickass 4.5 generation aircraft RAFALE not old fighters like Mirage would have been fit for that role
As far as Pak-FA is concerned it was know to take more time. This aircraft was to the first new aircraft to be produced by Russia. Russia was struggling since the end of Cold War in all aspects be it economy, work force or technology. Still India opted to become a 50-50 partner which was good as India hoped that Russia would shift some of the development work to India but this did not happen. Reasons better know to Russia.
India is countributing nothing in PAKFA in research terms,our contribution is just financially.We will be contributing in FGFA,35% of total devlopmental work.Indian scientists are already working in Russian labs even before the deal has been signed.Since the contract was to be signed earlier but due to workshare issues the contract is likely to be signed in December's Putin visit due to which FGFA will come only by 2024-25.We will get PAKFA before that(which article forgets to mention).
Now if India backs off from this deal it would have some options but those would take some time to mature but at what cost?
There will be no backing off since there are no major issues,there has been no official conformation that IAF is unhappy with the project.Give me one good reason why India should back off from this project.
 
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HAL is just manufacturing LCA and Sukhoi-30 mki.ADA is the research agency here.Full fledged work has not been started yet so your work pressure logic is not correct.
Secondly RAFALE is majorly aimed at China so we wanted a pure kickass 4.5 generation aircraft RAFALE not old fighters like Mirage would have been fit for that role

India is countributing nothing in PAKFA in research terms,our contribution is just financially.We will be contributing in FGFA,35% of total devlopmental work.Indian scientists are already working in Russian labs even before the deal has been signed.Since the contract was to be signed earlier but due to workshare issues the contract is likely to be signed in December's Putin visit due to which FGFA will come only by 2024-25.We will get PAKFA before that(which article forgets to mention).

There will be no backing off since there are no major issues,there has been no official conformation that IAF is unhappy with the project.Give me one good reason why India should back off from this project.

In a way you are saying India would have Two different 4+ Gen fighters and Two different 5 gen fighter along with LCA.

As far as Pak-fa deliveries would not be before Russia or IAF would take about 30-40 aircraft before and then wait for the others later.

As far as the last point is concerned please reread what I wrote.

Now if India backs off from this deal it would have some options but those would take some time to mature but at what cost?

Source: Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia | Page 8
 
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I am sorry i omitted "AMCA" in my post.The third line should have been "Full fledged work on AMCA has not been started yet so your work pressure logic is not correct.
In a way you are saying India would have Two different 4+ Gen fighters and Two different 5 gen fighter along with LCA.
See IAF classifies its fighter in three categories,i.e. Light category,Medium category and Heavy category.LCA comes under the light category,RAFALE in medium and PAKFA,FGFA,Sukhoi-30mki come under heavy category
As far as Pak-fa deliveries would not be before Russia or IAF would take about 30-40 aircraft before and then wait for the others later.
PAKFA,FGFA will be manufacture in India from scratch including engines and that will fulfill the order of IAF.Nothing to do with Russian factories.
As far as the last point is concerned please reread what I wrote.
Now if India backs off from this deal it would have some options but those would take some time to mature but at what cost?
I cant understand what you are saying here.Give me one good reason India should abandon this project?.
 
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I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what are our options in case FGFA is delayed to extent mentioned in the report.
Besides, it makes quick signing of Rafale deal even more pressing.

Its good only.
At the same time we cannot afford to build pakfa,rafale.lca mk2 etc.

We should wait till 2022-23 for pakfa till we get the new radar and new engines.
 
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at least you are generous you are talking to get more Su 30mki

plz go to DF1 forum MY GOD!!



jingoism at it's level best

some self proclaimed defence experts
say LCA mark2 should be inducted by 2020 & we should buy it & scrap rafale
LCA mark 2 is better than rafale
as BIGAAAA radar
BIGAA tyre
Biga cockpit
supa manuverable

Test pilots says it can shoot moon :rofl:

& if you disagrees with them on that you would be cerifiied as

"you are traitor & foreign arm buyer's dalllaaal":lol:

CHEERS

I know what u are talking about.They banned me last yer when i said kaveri is not upto the mark and should be scrapped and now its officially scrapped.

Stupid forum really especially the mod kunal biswas.
 
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Can't keep waiting? What BS.

Why don't you develop your own? Oh yes, you couldn't build a decent 4th gen plane in short time and want to dictate to Russia.

More like J-31 to Pakistan Mirchi effect.
 
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If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.

1)Iaf needs rafale and pakfa both and are not competing among themselves

2)We can induct the pakfa along with russians in 2016 only if we want but we are looking for a better engine which is this
Type30_1.png
Type30_2.jpg



And a better radar which is this




KRET is developing a nanophotonics radar

The technology can help improve “smart skin” for aircraft

A new project has been launched in Russia to create fundamentally new radar technology based on nanophotonics. The main objective of the project is creating elements of active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar using nanophotonics.

The project is being implemented jointly by the Fund for Advanced Studies and KRET. Both sides signed an agreement on implementing the advanced scientific and technological project entitled, “Development of an active phased array radar based on radiophotonics.”

The project includes the creation of a new, specialized laboratory and the development of universal technology that will serve as the basis for next-generation radar and electronic warfare systems. Investment in the project will amount to 680 million rubles.

“Nanophotonics is a promising area of research that will soon define the direction of development of dual-use technology in the developed world,” said Nikolai Kolesov.

According to him, the development of this technology by 2020 will allow for the creation in Russia of advanced transceiver devices, radar systems, and electronic intelligence and countermeasure systems.

A laboratory will be opened at KRET using the latest technology from a range of KRET enterprises: Phazotron-NIIR, RPKB, GRPZ, KNIRTI, Ekran, and others. All conditions necessary for conducting scientific research will be established at this laboratory, including a cleanroom, where dust, microorganisms, and chemical vapors are reduced to minimal levels.

Dmitry Zaitsev, Doctor of Technical Sciences and Deputy General Designer of Scientific Developments for Phazotron-NIIR, has been appointed scientific director of the laboratory.

One of the main directives of the project is to develop and manufacture a next-generation active electronically scanned array radar based on the principles of radiophotonics. This will reduce the weight of the equipment 1.5 to 3 times while increasing its reliability 2 to 3 times, as well as improving the scanning speed and resolution of the radar dozens of times over.

If successful, the technology will open up new possibilities for improving the “smart skin” used on the latest generation of Russian helicopters and other aircraft. By embedding the radar system throughout the entire area of the aircraft fuselage the crew can at any time look at a coherent 360-degree radar picture. The antenna system can work in both active and passive settings to protect against all kinds of interference, transmit both secret and interference data both to the ground and to other aircraft, and serve as a state identification system, among other uses.

Using these new materials and elements based on the principles of photonics, KRET has perfected advanced technology of high-power photodetectors and laser modules for semiconductors.

KRET has already widely used active electronically scanned array technology in creating airborne radar systems for modern fighter jets. Currently, KRET has created radar for the MiG-35 “Zhuk-AE” FGA and the FGA 35 with AESA. This technology allows these aircraft to track a large number of targets simultaneously by controlling the position of the electronic beam. The system can detect and target the enemy on water, land, and air, while also recognizing its class, type, and size, and solving all navigational issues and directing precision weapons.

Source: Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions | Page 145


3)Chinese are struggling with even a copy of rd-33 and al-31 forget about them matching 117s in su-35 soon and the newer engine to be produced for fgfa by 2020.

4)India wants the composite amount of the aircraft to go up with some design changes too which will take some time.Its speculated the 6 th prototype will be a bit different from the other 5,it remains to be sen what those differences are.
 
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Can't keep waiting? What BS.

Why don't you develop your own? Oh yes, you couldn't build a decent 4th gen plane in short time and want to dictate to Russia.

More like J-31 to Pakistan Mirchi effect.

j-31 will use rd-93 engine unless chinese develop a substitute.With a max thrust of just 98 kn in some variants its grossly underpowered.

Not to mention its just a prototype yet and needs rigorous testing to come into service.
 
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