Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

[Tshering22]

IAF isnt the only party to blamed here. Lets say IAF listened to you decided to have 100 MK-1s. What do you think how much time will HAL take to make them. The best known production rate by HAL ( AFAIK ) for MKI is 16 after 8/9 years !!!!! So say at avg rate 10 it will need 10 years !!!!! So why not just stop and start induction MK-2 ???

HAL needs to be privatized to churn out larger numbers. Also, we need a business development team who can hunt for foreign contracts to offset R&D costs.

Our manufacturing and exports in government sector, suck.

 

[SpArK]

Sometimes i just wonder what will happen if China joint develop J31 with India together. although it not gonna happen, quite interested.

If its not going to happen , then dont even think about it.

 

[sathya]

They have two projects. And why NOT ???
It perfectly aline with their regional goal. Keep India occupy with Pak while they deal with other things.
China has huge production base & money so making & leading 30/40 J-31 planes to Pak isnt big deal for them.

PS export version is always a water-down version.

I agree china has two projects , huge production base, money to spare for pak

But to sell a flagship product to other countries even if it's a friend before even it's own country fully inducts it .....

There is no guarantee for their technology or capability to be known for its adversaries .

It's seems impossible to me..

I would say china might sell it to Pakistan when it's own forces have around 300 of them at least..

 

[Sergi]

HAL needs to be privatized to churn out larger numbers. Also, we need a business development team who can hunt for foreign contracts to offset R&D costs.

Our manufacturing and exports in government sector, suck.

Privatisation sounds great but is it really that great ??????
Why wash down a whole company when simple management related decisions can make it efficient ????
AFAIK there is a cabinet Committee on reforms on PSUs. It will take care of it.

 

[syedali73]

Its a buyer, partner relationship which will be a bit hard for your understanding.

Please abstain from polluting defence threads with BS one-liners like these.

Indians have been saying the same for Pakistan in countless post but nobody gave them negative ratings. At any rate, if you got guts, go ahead and build your own stealth rather than asking Russians to do it for you. So much for the suap powa I guess.

 

[帅的一匹]

If its not going to happen , then dont even think about it.

Things change, maybe one day India/pakistan/China being matured enough to understand the importance of harminious.

 

[Sergi]

I agree china has two projects , huge production base, money to spare for pak

But to sell a flagship product to other countries even if it's a friend before even it's own country fully inducts it .....

There is no guarantee for their technology or capability to be known for its adversaries .

It's seems impossible to me..

I would say china might sell it to Pakistan when it's own forces have around 300 of them at least..

Second project J-31 is export oriented and pointed to counter F-35 sell.
On other hand J-20 will be only for PLA.

 

[Tshering22]

Privatisation sounds great but is it really that great ??????
Why wash down a whole company when simple management related decisions can make it efficient ????
AFAIK there is a cabinet Committee on reforms on PSUs. It will take care of it.

Privatization means that no union nonsense and targeting profits. Those workign to develop r&d will be paid much higher with good benefits while those slacking off or doing babugiri will be thrown out.

The management in Defence PSUs is governmental babus. And Babus while they may all study GK and whatnot for their entrance exams are of no use when politicians dominate them.

However, if say, HAL was to be acquired by TATA, no politician can screw up anything considering TATA's muscle and no babudom or union-nonsense will exist.

 

[帅的一匹]

Like UK/France/German.....it takes time.

 

[SpArK]

Indians have been saying the same for Pakistan in countless post but nobody gave them negative ratings. At any rate, if you got guts, go ahead and build your own stealth rather than asking Russians to do it for you. So much for the suap powa I guess.

There is a programme called AMCA which is running parellel to the FGFA.

We are not asking , there was a mutually made agreement and certain clauses associated with the FGFA deal, India is asking simply to honour it. To interpret it as begging is serious lack of knowledge about these things .

 

[SpArK]

Things change, maybe one day India/pakistan/China being matured enough to understand the importance of harminious.

Then there wont be any more need of many jet fighters, Isnt that right?

 

[syedali73]

There is a programme called AMCA which is running parellel to the FGFA.

We are not asking , there was a mutually made agreement and certain clauses associated with the FGFA deal, India is asking simply to honour it. To interpret it as begging is serious lack of knowledge about these things .

Yeh, there is also a program called LCA and the results are not hidden form anyone. If a 3.5 gen LCA could not be done right, how on earth a 5th gen FGFA would become a reality would be any-body's guess.

 

[Sergi]

Privatization means that no union nonsense and targeting profits. Those workign to develop r&d will be paid much higher with good benefits while those slacking off or doing babugiri will be thrown out.

The management in Defence PSUs is governmental babus. And Babus while they may all study GK and whatnot for their entrance exams are of no use when politicians dominate them.

However, if say, HAL was to be acquired by TATA, no politician can screw up anything considering TATA's muscle and no babudom or union-nonsense will exist.

Off-course you are right.
Say TATA is HAL's owner. But tell me can TATA speedup R&D ???? That will be NO cause its a time consuming process.

But now TATA has his money in HAL he wants the return. Will he continue the projects like LCA ???? He will scrap them and use the production-line to produce more Helis. Cause thats what is a good product and he can make money selling it. Why would he want to build 40 MK-1s and unaffordable costs ???

 

[sathya]

Since we are already late on LCA mk2 , two production lines would at least offset more than few years of induction time..

Private industry can spend their own money for R&D and likes which will benefit in addition to government projects

Also having at least one competitor is good for the industry..

 

[SpArK]

Yeh, there is also a program called LCA and the results are not hidden form anyone. If a 3.5 gen LCA could not be done right, how on earth a 5th gen FGFA would become a reality would be any-body's guess.

First its a 4.5 gen jet.(LCA).

Both FGFA, AMCA and LCA is in development .

FGFA is not available to purchase from the shelf, the requirement is to speed up the process, the defence ministry even ask the domestic industry to speed up the work, likewise it asked the partner to do the same.

I am willing to provide the meaning more simpler until you understand the context.

 

[sathya]

If private industry pays more salary, then their R & D is more likely to speed up..

That is only if...

I hope that will be the case..