Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

[Tshering22]

Off-course you are right.
Say TATA is HAL's owner. But tell me can TATA speedup R&D ???? That will be NO cause its a time consuming process.

But now TATA has his money in HAL he wants the return. Will he continue the projects like LCA ???? He will scrap them and use the production-line to produce more Helis. Cause thats what is a good product and he can make money selling it. Why would he want to build 40 MK-1s and unaffordable costs ???

He will speed up R&D not because of magical ideas coming to the scientists but by setting progress stage targets and interim meetings. R&D isn't endless researching in giant aerospace corporates around the world. There are deadlines and then there are assessment.

He won't make Mk1s but rather halted Mk1 4 years ago and gone straight for Mk2. Not to mention, his BD team would have secured orders from 2-3 countries at least to give a reason to increase production line, which would allow even local production to go beyond the pathetic 16/year to at least twice or thrice the levels.

It is a simple math buddy. Put yourself in Mistry's shoes and see.

I am not talking about Helicopter production which would already be selling like hot cakes courtesy HAL Dhruv's capability, competitive pricing and a private-owned, high quality after-sales support.

I am talking about fixed wing combat division; a totally different product.

You never depend on one customer. Also Tejas won't have been in such a terrible state had a private player made it from scratch.

 

[Sergi]

If private industry pays more salary, then their R & D is more likely to speed up..

That is only if...

I hope that will be the case..

China has money, work power and few designs. Still they are struggling to make their own engine !!!! They will succeed but it will take time. Money and work power speed up the process NOT the results. No matter who do it

 

[Sergi]

He will speed up R&D not because of magical ideas coming to the scientists but by setting progress stage targets and interim meetings. R&D isn't endless researching in giant aerospace corporates around the world. There are deadlines and then there are assessment.

F-35 !!!! Do I have to say more !!!

He won't make Mk1s but rather halted Mk1 4 years ago and gone straight for Mk2. Not to mention, his BD team would have secured orders from 2-3 countries at least to give a reason to increase production line, which would allow even local production to go beyond the pathetic 16/year to at least twice or thrice the levels.

how he can speed up production not R&D results. Look at china. They are still trying to make Engine.

It is a simple math buddy. Put yourself in Mistry's shoes and see.

I am not talking about Helicopter production which would already be selling like hot cakes courtesy HAL Dhruv's capability, competitive pricing and a private-owned, high quality after-sales support.

I am talking about fixed wing combat division; a totally different product.

You never depend on one customer. Also Tejas won't have been in such a terrible state had a private player made it from scratch.

Private player run after money !!!! If I own HAL I will sell hot cakes and wait for R&D to show results to invest in venture. Thats how it happen in Private sector. ( AFAIK )

 

[Tshering22]

F-35 !!!! Do I have to say more !!!

After the massive, massive successes seen in F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, EA-18, P-8, KC-135 all being produced and exported by thousands, generating billions and employing N number of people throughout US ecosystem.

Really man?

There goes your assessment.

how he can speed up production not R&D results. Look at china. They are still trying to make Engine.

All while they can induct thousands of artillery guns, surface-to-surface missiles, MBRLs, make hundreds of J-10Bs and J-11s on the drop of a hat and defend their country while we can do squat in the flash of a second except use missiles.

China cannot be compared because they are corporatized as state enterprises: meaning that their govt sector works better than even our private sector.

We're talking about comparing private vs govt in a similar ruling system.

Private player run after money !!!! If I own HAL I will sell hot cakes and wait for R&D to show results to invest in venture. Thats how it happen in Private sector. ( AFAIK )

Money makes the world go round. Gone are the socialist days when a staff quarter with pittance resulted in optimum work while PM families lived in palaces and did nothing.

So by your logic shouldn't all strategic industries be nationalized so as to 'give service and not seek evil money like capitalists'?

Come on dude, it is 2014.

All this 'run after money' will be fuelled into Indian economy and tax structure, creating jobs, hiring the right talent regardless of archaic sarkari requirements etc.

 

[sathya]

I am saying private sectors can complement public sectors..

And in future, over take it..

 

[anant_s]

Well Russian Jet is facing massive problems it would be at least 2025 when India will get its first Stealth Jet from Russia if it sticks to the same plane.

Bigger problem actually seems to be lack of communication. As the report says, Russia isn't clearly telling and sharing the details of program with India which is leading to this unsavory situation. Nobody is expecting India to start manufacturing world class Gas turbines or AESA Radars but being an equal partner, it has right to the technology.
As for T-50 facing problems, even F35 program has issues (not to mention spiraling costs), so as far as next gen fighters are concerned, everyone is more or less in the same boat (Cost and timeline over-runs).
I guess at this point of time, India needs Russia to give a clear road map of program, before committing any more money. That said, i dont think F 35 s an option for India at least in near future.

 

[anant_s]

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

As if beggars were choosers.

Except that "Beggars" are contributing few billion Dollars.
Is it that unrealistic to expect some maturity while writing comments?

 

[anant_s]

HAL needs to be privatized to churn out larger numbers. Also, we need a business development team who can hunt for foreign contracts to offset R&D costs.

Our manufacturing and exports in government sector, suck.

or atleast create competition for it. Nothing motivates a runner more than some someone chasing it to a finish line. & therefore Private participation in defense sector along with Make in India program manifestation in this sector are so crucial.

 

[Last Samuri]

Everything will fall in place.so relax everybody especially our Pakistan bretheten.

India has more than enough to smash the poorly equipped cash starved pak air force easily even today.

Lca tejas has started already
Rafale deal will be signed in next few weeks
Either Fgfa will be signed or India may even get f35 lightening

 

[$@rJen]

You really need to change one of your flags. Every single post from you is about India, why the obsession? Go back to your other ID and stay there, please.

https://defence.pk/search/7787290/

first @Luca1 Needs to change his profile pic... I don't know if that's a woman or a man put on some makeup... pic is so creepy

 

[Lostsoldier]

But what if lenovo is not comparable to Sony or apple.Either it copies them like china copies Russians or it makes small products,gets matured and till that time buys apple or sony,tgats what india is doing.

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

As if beggars were choosers.

Killed by all the other expensive foreign imports.

Like I said, how can domestic industries (like our Lenovo) ever become great, if all we buy is foreign brands like Sony and Apple?

They can make a good computer too right, so why do we need Lenovo?

Why not just more expensive foreign imports.

 

[Sergi]

After the massive, massive successes seen in F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, EA-18, P-8, KC-135 all being produced and exported by thousands, generating billions and employing N number of people throughout US ecosystem.

Really man?

There goes your assessment.

where it goes do you read what I quoted it for !!!!! Still
You are just proving my point !!!! Even after the sucess in aerospace for decades even they mess up with the project for any reasons and you want TATA a new player to do what they cant !!!! Really man ?????

All while they can induct thousands of artillery guns, surface-to-surface missiles, MBRLs, make hundreds of J-10Bs and J-11s on the drop of a hat and defend their country while we can do squat in the flash of a second except use missiles.

China cannot be compared because they are corporatized as state enterprises: meaning that their govt sector works better than even our private sector.

We're talking about comparing private vs govt in a similar ruling system.

that was an example and not the point. PRC is kinda corporate
Still they coundlnt do it. All you said isnt their development its their prodcution may be a little tweaked. Thats it. But engine is development.

Money makes the world go round. Gone are the socialist days when a staff quarter with pittance resulted in optimum work while PM families lived in palaces and did nothing.

So by your logic shouldn't all strategic industries be nationalized so as to 'give service and not seek evil money like capitalists'?

dont put your words in my mouth. I will speak for myself.
Are you willing to privatise Atomic industry ????
Socialism has nithing to do with it. Its about concentrating on need and development of the sector. If you tthink TATA or any other is that strong whats stoppoing them ??? Its been years since defence industry is opened to privae players - partially. Do you see any R&D investments from TATA ??? He is just making cabines for helos. Please point me if I missed any R&D development.

.
Come on dude, it is 2014.

All this 'run after money' will be fuelled into Indian economy and tax structure, creating jobs, hiring the right talent regardless of archaic sarkari requirements etc.

And when did I said it wont ????
But at what cost ???
Do you remember the scandal of Pinaka rocket fuel ???it was a big news. A private supplier with the help of a scientist decided to make a little more profit by adding little impurity to fuel !!!! Result is well known. Nearly 1000 rockets were made to pass the QC again- delaying delivery
I cant find the article right now. Its from 2012.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Sometimes i just wonder what will happen if China joint develop J31 with India together. although it not gonna happen, quite interested.

Tbh I want that as west wants us to fight and never be a challenge to them.

 

[Echo_419]

If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.

If the French try to Fook with us we will go with the Typhoon

 

[Echo_419]

[

I've stated previously that its better for India to focus its energies on Tejas and AMCA. Tejas has been an ugly lab experiment, but surely valueable lessons have been learnt. It would've been ideal if IAF bought Gripen NG and also adopted SAAB into both Tejas and AMCA program as a partner.

While Tejas MK-1 is surely a disappointment Tejas MK 2 will surely be a success
& yes I also think we should concentrate more on AMCA with the Techs we have & we will gain from FGFA & Dassult deal we can surely make it work