Canadian Prime Minister talks about Religious Freedom in Pakistan

[Dubious]

Some British Sunni Muslim communities are too secluded and does not engage with the locals. Not saying they all want to live in ghettos but sadly they can't seem to unite over any issues. They should make their voices heard but with unity instead of bickering against each other.

Well how educated is that class?

I already answered all these points that you are bringing up!

 

[war&peace]

They started with calling mirza a prophet but have now settled at calling him Massih Nauzbillah.
Quran has already stamped the finality of Prophethood by always only mentioning the prophets before whenever mentioning them in totality, whereas if there were any prophets to come (like Muhammad (PBUH) in the times of Moses (AS) and Jesus (AS)) they have been clearly mentioned in the previous Holy Scripts (which Quran repeats on numerous occasions), however, there is no indication of whatsoever that the chain of prophethood would continue nor there has been any mentioning of prophet to come except Issa (SA).

Brother we are saying the same thing. They should not be allowed to use label of Islam because they are not Muslim. They can call themselves anything else but not Muslims. They are free to practice their religion.

 

[KingMamba]

i am saddened to see such a childish response from a think tank of this forum and i would request that you pay some heed to the honorable prime minister's message even if you happen to be on the other side of the political spectrum.

The "honorable" pm should not comment on other nations internal affairs. One does not see Nawaz talking about the ill treatment of french canadians by anglos.

 

[haviZsultan]

The "honorable" pm should not comment on other nations internal affairs. One does not see Nawaz talking about the ill treatment of french canadians by anglos.

You always surprise me. You are living in a western state you are willing to defend and enjoying its benefits and yet you support oppressive laws for the people back at home? How would you like it if America decided to stop calling you muslim as you choose to be called and conducted oppressive policies against you and unethnical demands.

The secular system is a success in the US, it can be a success in Pakistan too. Why would you support secularism in US while mullah rule at home? Its hypocrisy. Its selective and you favor secularism where it pleases you while supporting oppression of Ahmedis at home. I really thought at least those raised outside would develop a more positive view of minorities.

I don't like these double standards at all.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I dont get you! When I asked you guys to be called MUSLIMS under 1 flag @Ehsan sahaab went as far as saying he would never wanna be called coz even ISIS do that

But here you are boasting (nothing wrong it is worth being proud) of Ahmedia's single leadership!

Why the dual standards? You seem ashamed of single unity of Islam but are bloody proud of one under a different name?

I'm indeed lucky that I'm Ahmadi Muslim and that I have Khilafat, our Khalifa is not a political Mullah but according to our beliefs a Khalifa installed by Allah, so we can only unite under his leadership. So why should I accept a Sunni molvi shaib as my leader? The ones who declare Ahmadis as kafir? That's not double standards.

If anyone else who is sick of two faced hypocrite Mullahs they are more then welcome to accept Ahmadiyya Khalifa as his own. He's a great man who not only is accessible to any ordinary Ahmadi but also to non Ahmadis if they seek his guidance.

 

[Dubious]

I'm indeed lucky that I'm Ahmadi Muslim and that I have Khilafat, our Khalifa is not a political Mullah but according to our beliefs a Khalifa installed by Allah, so we can only unite under his leadership. So why should I accept a Sunni molvi shaib as my leader? The ones who declare Ahmadis as kafir? That's not double standards.

Who is asking you to do so?

Why the defence speech?

So you equate the word Muslim a follower of the religion ALLAH named (Islam) as a Mullah religion? Then that is truly sad ..And then you wonder why the opposite group doesnt like you?

When I asked you to call yourself a Muslim to unite under 1 flag your friend @Ehsan 's own words are he would not wanna be called and now you are taking it a step further by equating a Sunni molvi to ISLAM? For me a Mullah nor a Molvi is my leader...Only my prophet!

If anyone else who is sick of two faced hypocrite Mullahs they are more then welcome to accept Ahmadiyya Khalifa as his own. He's a great man who not only is accessible to any ordinary Ahmadi but also to non Ahmadis if they seek his guidance.

I am not sure how you interpreted that! I asked you to unite under the word Islam your friend there shunned it but you are bragging to unite under Ahmediyya shows how much importance god's words mean to you ....

La kum deenu kum wali yadien!

 

[KingMamba]

You always surprise me. You are living in a western state you are willing to defend and enjoying its benefits and yet you support oppressive laws for the people back at home? How would you like it if America decided to stop calling you muslim as you choose to be called and conducted oppressive policies against you and unethnical demands.

The secular system is a success in the US, it can be a success in Pakistan too. Why would you support secularism in US while mullah rule at home? Its hypocrisy. Its selective and you favor secularism where it pleases you while supporting oppression of Ahmedis at home. I really thought at least those raised outside would develop a more positive view of minorities.

I don't like these double standards at all.

America can call me what it wants it is not run by Muslims and as far as I am concerned anything a non Muslim has to say on the Ahmadi issue is irrelevant. If they were to call me non Muslim I would probably chuckle and then move on with my life as normal. As for the rest of your shit you need to get over it, only jealous desis consistently bring up overseas desi's location in order to score some sort of point, well it doesn't work and only makes me think your visa application was denied.

As for system, I never brought up the system question at all, all I said was Canadian pm should not meddle in the internal affairs of Pakistan since GOP does not meddle in their affairs but I always find it funny when somebody who does not live here thinks that everything must be perfect over here. Anyway it is not and the American system has its own problems which is exclusive to this country, to think that you can copy paste a system and then apply it to any other country successfully is a childish notion better left to the naive to ponder about. Pakistan should make its own system based on its own experience.

 

[Ehsan]

The "honorable" pm should not comment on other nations internal affairs. One does not see Nawaz talking about the ill treatment of french canadians by anglos.

lol even people in Pakistna dont care what he has to do with internal affairs of Punjab lol

America can call me what it wants it is not run by Muslims and as far as I am concerned anything a non Muslim has to say on the Ahmadi issue is irrelevant. If they were to call me non Muslim I would probably chuckle and then move on with my life as normal. As for the rest of your shit you need to get over it, only jealous desis consistently bring up overseas desi's location in order to score some sort of point, well it doesn't work and only makes me think your visa application was denied.

As for system, I never brought up the system question at all, all I said was Canadian pm should not meddle in the internal affairs of Pakistan since GOP does not meddle in their affairs but I always find it funny when somebody who does not live here thinks that everything must be perfect over here. Anyway it is not and the American system has its own problems which is exclusive to this country, to think that you can copy paste a system and then apply it to any other country successfully is a childish notion better left to the naive to ponder about. Pakistan should make its own system based on its own experience.

thats what Ahmadis have done "chuckled and moved on when you call them non-Muslim" but as for the law it will have to be changed and people can keep calling them non-Muslim, it dont matter.

 

[KingMamba]

lol even people in Pakistna dont care what he has to do with internal affairs of Punjab lol


thats what Ahmadis have done "chuckled and moved on when you call them non-Muslim" but as for the law it will have to be changed and people can keep calling them non-Muslim, it dont matter.

The law won't be changed because most Pakistanis in Pakistan are not against it. Even the ones who say Ahmadis should be treated better will not say yeah they are Muslim, or if they do they are in a minority and have no position of power to do anything about it, so what does that tell you?

 

[Dubious]

"chuckled and moved on

you seem to be stuck and not moving on

 

[haviZsultan]

America can call me what it wants it is not run by Muslims and as far as I am concerned anything a non Muslim has to say on the Ahmadi issue is irrelevant. If they were to call me non Muslim I would probably chuckle and then move on with my life as normal. As for the rest of your shit you need to get over it, only jealous desis consistently bring up overseas desi's location in order to score some sort of point, well it doesn't work and only makes me think your visa application was denied.

As for system, I never brought up the system question at all, all I said was Canadian pm should not meddle in the internal affairs of Pakistan since GOP does not meddle in their affairs but I always find it funny when somebody who does not live here thinks that everything must be perfect over here. Anyway it is not and the American system has its own problems which is exclusive to this country, to think that you can copy paste a system and then apply it to any other country successfully is a childish notion better left to the naive to ponder about. Pakistan should make its own system based on its own experience.

I just pointed out your double standards, double standards and contradictory ideals pretty common in your nation, like supporting jihadi rubbish against the soviets and now fighting the same jihadists they created. Defenders of America generally have no real interest in the ideals of freedom, tolerance and an egalitarian society as it is expected. The same country meddles not only in our affairs but directs our foreign policy.

Your hypocracy when dealing with problems related to Ahmedis is visible and very clearly. Instead of adopting the highly useful secular system in the west our people favor the same religious misinterpretation based, oppressive policies which made us demand Pakistan in the first place. We are reneging on our secular foundation principles and adopting a type of mullah mindset. Oppression never solves any problems. The Ahmedis have been the victims constantly and a little bit of empathy for them will go a long way to solving their problems.

Would you favor it if Muslims were being killed in America constantly like Ahmedis are being attacked and killed? There is no copying of concepts in secularism. We adopt the type of secularism that is best for us.

 

[airmarshal]

Canadian PM is in political trouble. I hope he loses this election. Enough of him.

Canadian PM and his Conservative party are unconditional supporters of Israel. If he dares not talk against Israel, he better not talk about religious freedom or the lack of it in Pakistan.

 

[KingMamba]

I just pointed out your double standards, double standards and contradictory ideals pretty common in your nation, like supporting jihadi rubbish against the soviets and now fighting the same jihadists they created. Defenders of America generally have no real interest in the ideals of freedom, tolerance and an egalitarian society as it is expected. The same country meddles not only in our affairs but directs our foreign policy.

Your hypocracy when dealing with problems related to Ahmedis is visible and very clearly. Instead of adopting the highly useful secular system in the west our people favor the same religious misinterpretation based, oppressive policies which made us demand Pakistan in the first place. We are reneging on our secular foundation principles and adopting a type of mullah mindset. Oppression never solves any problems. The Ahmedis have been the victims constantly and a little bit of empathy for them will go a long way to solving their problems.

Would you favor it if Muslims were being killed in America constantly like Ahmedis are being attacked and killed? There is no copying of concepts in secularism. We adopt the type of secularism that is best for us.

I have no double standards about Ahmadis and in fact have softened my stance on them over the years I have spent here on pdf but I am also not a naive optimist like you. You say that Ahmadis are being killed because they were declared non Muslim but you forget that there was anti Ahmadi riots a full 2 decades before said declaration. The Ahmadi question is not something that just be solved through a overnight declaration of secularism like you seem to believe. There would still be Ahmadis being beat up and/or killed the next day, the solution to this issue is only going to be found through a change in mindset of the people on the ground. Like I told ehsan earlier even the most sympathetic of Ahmadi supporters would not openly declare them as Muslims either because they know its a minority position or because they just don't believe it themselves.

 

[Ehsan]

I have no double standards about Ahmadis and in fact have softened my stance on them over the years I have spent here on pdf but I am also not a naive optimist like you. You say that Ahmadis are being killed because they were declared non Muslim but you forget that there was anti Ahmadi riots a full 2 decades before said declaration. The Ahmadi question is not something that just be solved through a overnight declaration of secularism like you seem to believe. There would still be Ahmadis being beat up and/or killed the next day, the solution to this issue is only going to be found through a change in mindset of the people on the ground. Like I told ehsan earlier even the most sympathetic of Ahmadi supporters would not openly declare them as Muslims either because they know its a minority position or because they just don't believe it themselves.

i agree and that is why we need to have a Vote in the elections, this will make the politicians think twice. We have to start with voter lists that are not based on religion and as the other thread states diplomacy on a world scale. not just Pakistan but include every country.

 

[Pakistani E]

I beg to disagree....

In the Quran ALLAH himself declares he named us Muslims...anything against that is not contradiction of the Quran but man made philosophy:

Surah Al maidah verse 3
.....This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion....


According to Arabic grammar Muslim is a noun who practices Islam (verb)....

As for the hadith ...Many scholars believe it was pure comparison that Jews had so and so followers, Christians had so and so number and Muslims would out number both merely due to their numbers rather than actually making the sect...

The hadith you are quoting isnt even a Sahih Hadith but Ibn Dawud

As for the 2nd verse why did you stop there? Verse 83 actually read from 75-113.


Read the Quran in context dont get excited with words!


It wasnt a grand prophecy...it isnt even in Sahih Muslim NOR Bukhari!

I am not the one nittpicking while you are with words instead of context!

Lol. I am not stopping you from calling yourself just a muslim. Call yourself whatever you want, I have no problem with it. The verse I presented to you was only to show to you that the word sect is used in the Qur'an in different conctexts. I am not rejecting the Qur'an but merely showing you the different contexts that the word sect is used in. Rest is up to you.

As for the hadeeth, you do know that Sunan Abu Dawood is among the Siah Sittah, that is the six authentic works of hadeeth? And also there is a similar hadith in Tirmidhi.

And as for the verse, I didn't tell you to stop there, or even start from there. Allah knows my intention was to only point out the verse I was referring to as the page consisted of the whole Surah. You are the one getting excited by jumping to conclusions that I am only telling you to read certain verses.