Canadian imams issue Taliban fatwa

[qsaark]

Qsaark

You have not answered whether or not if a Mufti or a Ayatollah says it's Ok to kill somebody whether that would be legitimate?

you seem more interested in evasion than answering questions put to you - why is that?

Why should I answer about an issue I did not even touch in my posts? I really want to be proven guilty through my posts for what you are blaming me for.

And YOU seem even more interested in evasion from finding my posts in which as per your (and TruthSeeker's) claim, I have supported the views and actions of the criminals using the name of the religion. This topic is not going to be changed until and unless we are done with this vilification.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Qsaark, from your first appearance on this Forum I thought you were an apologist for the irhabis. It would take too much energy to go back and quote you, yourself, chapter and verse in this regard. That is why I questioned the wisdom of making you a "think tank" member. Now, your are "reformed"? I don't believe it. I smell Taqiyya. To me, you sit here in the US with your US government grant for your personal research and are the ultimate hypocrite railing against my country. You hate my country as you take everything it has to offer.

Unfortunately, understanding the nuances of various positions within Islam and the Muslim world has not been a strong point in the West (and some Pakistanis). Take for example the brouhaha over the Nizam-e-Adl regulations the GoP promulgated in Swat. The issue was not the fact that 'shariah' was being implemented, but whether the Taliban would disarm and disband, and whether they would have authority to appoint Qazi's (judges) of their choice to adjudicate and ostensibly push their barbaric brand of Shariah.

So what we saw was just a lot of vitriol against the GoP saying it had caved in to the Taliban demands and now barbaric Taliban justice would reign supreme, instead of a proper analysis of the relevant issues related to the NAR as I posted above. People who supported the use of the NAR as a means of attempting a non-military solution to the conflict were often dismissed as 'Taliban sympathizers'.

I see the accusations against Qssark here in the same light. He holds conservative views no doubt, but I have never seen a post of his supporting the Taliban and their atrocities or ideology.

People are making too much of his opposition to the use of certain terminology, and somehow relating it to support for the Taliban. This issue was also the primary source of contention in our discussions in the TT forums, and I fall in Qssarks camp in opposing the use of terminology such as 'Jihadists and Islamists' since these terms suggest that the actions of these people are in some way 'Jihad' or 'Islam'.

They are not.

The attacks against Qssark are getting too personal - and unless you guys can quote his posts where he has supported the Taliban, I recommend dropping the subject, and engaging him constructively on his arguments.

 

[qsaark]

Agno, thank you very much for coming out for my help. I wish people could understand the difference between a 'traditional' versus a 'fanatic' Muslim.

 

[S-2]

The test, to my simple Christian perspective, lies in the views of those who condemn the actions of these men in Pakistan while legitimizing these same actions in Afghanistan.

Can any do so? The objectives of the U.N. mandate, supported and enforced by NATO/ISAF/America appear to differ dramatically from those of the Soviet Union.

While nascent, mal-formed, and hardly effective as yet, those same objectives seem to extend right into the heart and being of the GoA. Not all these officials of the GoA are corrupt nor cowardly in the pursuit of these same goals for Afghanistan.

So, can a taliban or affiliated militia be "bad" for Pakistan but "good" for Afghanistan? I believe not and for this reason am disappointed that I see no extension of such condemnation by these Canadian imams to those making war on Afghanistan and this is worrisome IMV.

Have I missed something here as I'd hoped for an explicit recognition of such by these religious leaders, particularly given Canada's role in Afghanistan's stabilization just over the border in Kandahar?

 

[muse]

understanding the nuances of various positions within Islam and the Muslim world has not been a strong point in the West (and some Pakistanis)

Yet it seems to be a strong point with those who support the kinds of behavior the Talib exhibit. These sorts seem to have little problems with "nuances" such as whether it would be "legitimate" should a Mufti or a Ayatollah issue a warrant of death ? It's curious, to say the least.

Whereas the majority of Pakistanis are convinced that the Nazim e Adl was and is a cave in to the demands of The Talib, some Pakistanis crafting a new notion of "conservative", seek shelter from reason. We may ask these whether it is not true that Nizam e Adl was originally crafted as a political ploy to pacify the TNSM or not? - Even these Pakistanis, expert at Nuances in Islam and among Muslims, will not venture to argue that the Nizam e Adl and TNSM are not related.

It's a shame that using authority on the forum to ensure that the line of thought they choose to describe as conservative, without reference to FAITH, but rooted in the DOGMA of a particular line of thinking, should now be presented as Islam, one without reason or morality.

Imagine it takes no "legitimacy" to issue death warrants but rejection of those have taken up arms against the Pakistani state, is meaningless unless legitimized by those who have authority to issue death warrants?

Anyway soon these grandees will be under the same threat as the rest of us and the issue may become clearer

 

[TruthSeeker]

We'll come back to rest of the non-sense you have vomited in your post once you prove from my previous posts that I have supported the criminals who use the name of religion to justify their actions.

Qsaark,

I have spent the last hour going back and reading many of your posts. I now see that I was wrong in accusing you of being an irhabi sympathizer. I believe that your approach is to advocate a purer belief and practice of classical Islam than is advocated by the various political Islam groups that now proclaim Jihad and are destroying Pakistan. I apologize for mischaracterizing your stand. I must say, however, that in criticizing the critics of the irhabis for their lack of nuanced understanding of Islam, you give the impression of loving the irhabis more than their critics.

OTOH, your anti-Americanism is truly grating hypocrisy coming from someone who so enjoys the fruits of the American system. You have found security, professional growth and wealth for yourself and your family here, yet you hate America. Go figure.

 

[asq]

The test, to my simple Christian perspective, lies in the views of those who condemn the actions of these men in Pakistan while legitimizing these same actions in Afghanistan.

Can any do so? The objectives of the U.N. mandate, supported and enforced by NATO/ISAF/America appear to differ dramatically from those of the Soviet Union.

While nascent, mal-formed, and hardly effective as yet, those same objectives seem to extend right into the heart and being of the GoA. Not all these officials of the GoA are corrupt nor cowardly in the pursuit of these same goals for Afghanistan.

So, can a taliban or affiliated militia be "bad" for Pakistan but "good" for Afghanistan? I believe not and for this reason am disappointed that I see no extension of such condemnation by these Canadian imams to those making war on Afghanistan and this is worrisome IMV.

Have I missed something here as I'd hoped for an explicit recognition of such by these religious leaders, particularly given Canada's role in Afghanistan's stabilization just over the border in Kandahar?

It is not the name Talibans that these Canadian Imams are against.

It is the acts that they commit , Now for Canadian Imams to say the same things about afghan Taliban, since both are from same entity and are doing the same things so are condemned the same.

Fatwa is general rule and can apply in the whole world if it is aplicable.

It is not the name but the acts that Islam believes are to be checked.


Read th following verses of Our prophet of Allah. P.B.U.H.

Verily ye are ordered the divine commandments, then forsake them not; ye are forbidden the unlawful, then do not fall therein; there are fixed boundaries, then pass not beyond them; and there is silence on some things without their being forgotten, then do not debate about them.

 

[muse]

'What? Are we not Muslims?'

By Nosheen Abbas
Saturday, 30 May, 2009 | 08:41 AM PST |


‘Asalam-o-Aalaikum, who would you like to speak to?’ asked an educated sounding girl when I called Al-Huda International in Islamabad. I wanted to speak to the principal, I replied. Al-Huda is one of the most influential (international) Islamic organizations in the world. They have over 250 branches across the world and have female students in the millions. In effect, Al-Huda International is responsible for the religious and spiritual upbringing of millions of girls around the world. So, perhaps like many others, I wanted to know their take on the current situation in Pakistan.

I couldn’t get through to her so instead I was left with the regional director’s email address. Not expecting a swift reply, I emailed Ms Yasmin Khakwani the following question: What is your opinion about what the Taliban are doing in various parts of the country? Do you consider their actions correct?

This was her response: ‘I work for Al-Huda with a Vision of ‘Quran for all,’ so like any other citizen, I am not aware of all such activities happening around us.’

Her statement shocked me on several levels. To me, it suggests a number of things: for one if she’s avoiding political remarks than at least a religious stance is the least she can have on the current issues; it also showed stark apathy and blatant disregard of the millions of people suffering at the hands of militants. Her statement also indicated the need to hide behind generalized statements while blaming ‘citizens’ of being ignorant of the IDPs plight that Ms Khakwani termed ‘activities.’

If only Ms Khakwani and Ms Farhat Hashmi stepped outside their comfortable bubble and heard stories like Naik Amal’s from Swat. He used to work at our house but now his life has been wrecked. His brother was kidnapped by the Taliban and now the family driven out of their own house is putting up in a mud house which his mother regards as a great blessing compared to the tents now housing thousands under the sky. The other day he came to see us. ‘I still can’t believe our lives have changed like this, we had a house, our own land and here we are left trying to figure out how to get by. These hooligans come and tell us they are here to bring Islam. What? Are we not Muslims?!’ Amal remarked narrating the tragedy that has befallen Swat.

Naik Amal’s story reflects the anguish of all those who are suffering on account of the militants’ warped understanding of Islam. One would expect that religious organizations would be the first to speak on matters such as this. Their neutrality is incomprehensible as also their apathy. In this situation where helping hands are needed one has never heard of Al-Huda’s students volunteering for social work during a calamity. On the contrary, the founding head Ms Farhat Hashmi indoctrinates archaic teachings favouring women’s subjugation. Many girls have been ‘transformed’ by Ms Hashmi who now believe in limiting their existence to the four walls of the house. One wonders, whether religion was not only being used by militants but by ordinary religious leaders as well.

Al Huda targets the middle and upper crust of our society and mainly appeals to impressionable teenagers and bored housewives who prefer ritual practices to lending a helping hand to the needy.

nosheenabbas@gmail.com

 

[qsaark]

Qsaark,

I have spent the last hour going back and reading many of your posts. I now see that I was wrong in accusing you of being an irhabi sympathizer. I believe that your approach is to advocate a purer belief and practice of classical Islam than is advocated by the various political Islam groups that now proclaim Jihad and are destroying Pakistan. I apologize for mischaracterizing your stand. I must say, however, that in criticizing the critics of the irhabis for their lack of nuanced understanding of Islam, you give the impression of loving the irhabis more than their critics.

It is good to see that you have courage to accept you were wrong.

OTOH, your anti-Americanism is truly grating hypocrisy coming from someone who so enjoys the fruits of the American system. You have found security, professional growth and wealth for yourself and your family here, yet you hate America. Go figure.

I criticize certain US policies, and this is my fundamental right as a tax payer as per US constitution. There is a huge difference between criticizing the policies and getting involved in activities that are prosecutable. Do you from my posts find anything that falls into that category? Democrats and Republican are extremely critical (I enjoyed presidential elections lately a lot) of each other's policies, but are they called hypocrite or Anti-America? Are they blamed for every thing you are blaming me for? Are they not enjoying the fruits of the American system?

 

[aziz raza]

I do agree with you.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I criticize certain US policies, and this is my fundamental right as a tax payer as per US constitution. There is a huge difference between criticizing the policies and getting involved in activities that are prosecutable. Do you from my posts find anything that falls into that category?

Of course it is your right to criticize anything from the safety of your American home. You don't even have to be a taxpayer to be protected by the US constitution. And I am not thinking or implying that your criticisms are "prosecutable". That's ridiculous. You differ from the criticism of American Democrats versus Republicans in the way you attribute nefarious motives to the US. The US has pursued many policies that proved, in hindsight, to be counterproductive or ineffective. But I maintain that the motivations for those policies were well-intentioned. That is where you are grating. You go beyond criticizing US policies as being ineffective, harmful, even, to maintaining that they are the result of evil intentions. I would have hoped that your years in the US would have given you more sympathy for and understanding of the American people's desire to do the right thing, even when they don't succeed or even know how.

 

[happy.muslimah]

All Talibans of pakistan should be killed as they are enemy of islam they are not following islam but all things against islam and they called their self as muslims ohhhhhhhhhhhhh my foot they are not muslims

 

[TOPGUN]

We need to unite world wide specialy in Pakistan and fight of these bastards that have cost Pakistan and the world so much pain enough is enough!