Canadian Federal government cancels F-35 fighter purchase

[gambit]

This post is SUPER DUPER MISLEADING............

to start, Canada NEVER EVEN SIGNED A PURCHASE AGREEMENT of F-35 to begin with. mean Canadian cannot cancel an order they do not make. Canadian are developemental partner but is the only one country that will consider buying the product after 2013 (2013 is yet to come) and at any time, if Canada were not to go ahead with the full purchase, there will not even have a cancellation fee. As there are no official agreement on Canadian buying the bird in the first place. The F-35 Program are build on CANADA NOT BUYING THE JET........

You have to understand the FACT that most posted news sources here are usually not -- NOT -- thoroughly read and thought through by the original poster. If anything, no one is even asking that they read between the lines, only that they read the lines after the top most sensationalist sentences/paragraphs. But even that is asking too much.

 

[for truth]

You have to understand the FACT that most posted news sources here are usually not -- NOT -- thoroughly read and thought through by the original poster. If anything, no one is even asking that they read between the lines, only that they read the lines after the top most sensationalist sentences/paragraphs. But even that is asking too much.

was this in reference to me?
well, just to be clear, i didn't make the news nor i'm the editor of the news article.
I found this piece of news on a different defense forum, and i just posted here, I did not make any statement personally, i posted just to know what others think of it and to know how much credible is this information.

on the other defense forum though, many people did actually give a lot of credence to this article, on the other hand, they are just opinions, while many even questioned the superiority of the F-35 and were rooting for F-15E , typhoon etc.

The Canadians have officially not made any decision, everyone knows this, but it is also true that the sky rocketing cost has been a concern for others .

 

[Luftwaffe]

Why canada want an airforce???

Why not, why not india make peace with its neighbors and scrap air force, dumb question by you.

Canada was world's third [some reports 4th] largest Air Force along with Australian Air Force in WWII you can image the money it had back in 1940s today Canada is in much better position. It is just ridiculous those who are opposing F-35s in Canada CF-18s are 28 Years old with the upgrades by 2020-2021 they will ready for replacement.

 

[dbc]

irrelevant? may be, but, it is hard to consider him as a 'ignorant' when he explains all his assessments with detailed literature, formulas and calculations.

As i said, i haven't seen anyone thoroughly debunking his assessment and conclusions point by point with detailed analysis, rather, all i came across was a bunch of naive people who started to label kopp as idiot, biased etc.

by your logic of the car,well, i will also go with the one who has years of experience in driving, but, in this case, where are those professionals? and how many of these experienced professionals have clearly debunked kopps assessment?.

neither kopp nor those who label kopp as a fool have any kind of experience in flying an aircraft, nor were involved in actual design of the aircraft, in such a case, both are unreliable source of information, but, kopp makes an attempt to explain his assessment through known standard fundamental physics and formulas, while others completely stay out of it and call him a 'fool'.

If you go through his recent article:
A Preliminary Assessment of Specular Radar Cross Section Performance in the Sukhoi T-50 Prototype

he has made a highly detailed analysis of the Russian T-50 fighter, and this is the only scientific assessment that is out there in the public.No one has come forward to debunk this nor has made a attempt to analyse the T-50 at such a revealing level.

When both of them have no experience in driving a car, i will go with the one who tries to explain the details with fundamentals and sound reasoning and not with one who never justifies his opinion.

First Kopp's assessment is based on open source data, he is a civilian. I know for a fact that the data you find on the internet even reliable sources like Janes is often wrong. In the real world some fighter jets have flown much further and faster than the data provided by aircraft manufacturers web site. Some exaggerate others understate, those who know the truth either aren't cleared to correct the information OR have no incentive to do so OR disinformation helps their cause.

Second, Kopp's conclusions are based on physical optics. The inaccuracy of physical optics for the purpose of predicting the RCS of a complex object is well known.

Finally, Kopp's agenda is well known. He is on a mission to get Australia the F-22.

 

[jhungary]

was this in reference to me?
well, just to be clear, i didn't make the news nor i'm the editor of the news article.
I found this piece of news on a different defense forum, and i just posted here, I did not make any statement personally, i posted just to know what others think of it and to know how much credible is this information.

on the other defense forum though, many people did actually give a lot of credence to this article, on the other hand, they are just opinions, while many even questioned the superiority of the F-35 and were rooting for F-15E , typhoon etc.

The Canadians have officially not made any decision, everyone knows this, but it is also true that the sky rocketing cost has been a concern for others .

Dude, no one is doubting there are concern by the way the F-35 Exist. But your bolt parts on that post had already defeated the OP Title if Canadian have not official made any decision on buying or not buying the aircraft, how can the "Cancel" the Contract of Buying F-35? Was that then the title are misleading?

Anyone can attemp to go indeep on something does not automatically make him profience on something, without qualification, anyone is just talked. If you are an aerospace engineer and if you are a political advisor, your word mean different if you comment on a differnet field, never trust a politician discuss technology and never trust an engineer dicuss politic. Kopp is a fellow in Computer Science, will there be any differnet when he comment on technical aircraft issue? I don't know, i can tell you this, my brother is a AeroEngine Engineer working for Boeing and he said even he cannot fully provide for an review of an Airfraft. Too many complex factor and no one are ever good on all of those. And Kopp was a PhD in Computer Science which hold a comemrcial pilot license and flew on the simulator for 3 military aircraft. It's up to you who you want to believe.

As i showed in my post, Canadian NEVER even signed the contract to start with (They always maintain they will discuss the possibility of buying in and between 2013), it would be foolish to include Canada as a factor on buying the craft to begin with, so it's already calculated that the chance Canadian are NOT buying the craft.

F-35 is already in production, the US Military (Marine and AF) are set to receive the 100th F-35 on Lot III Production. Britain are due to receive the first prototype in 2013, Australia are due to receive the first craft on 2014. I don't know why you hate the F-35 so much and want to see it demise, but they are not gonna, ain't no point hoping it anyway.

 

[for truth]

First Kopp's assessment is based on open source data, he is a civilian. I know for a fact that the data you find on the internet even reliable sources like Janes is often wrong. In the real world some fighter jets have flown much further and faster than the data provided by aircraft manufacturers web site. Some exaggerate others understate, those who know the truth either aren't cleared to correct the information OR have no incentive to do so OR disinformation helps their cause.

Second, Kopp's conclusions are based on physical optics. The inaccuracy of physical optics for the purpose of predicting the RCS of a complex object is well known.

Finally, Kopp's agenda is well known. He is on a mission to get Australia the F-22.

agree with most of the part, however this is also true to most american weapons . neither F-35 nor the f-22 has a overwhelming superiority in all encompassing scenario, it has it's own limits and it's own comfort zone, out of it, it may lose it's advantage. My frustration was with how most Americans continue to downplay and in some cases completely go into denial over the capabilities of its rivals.

it was quiet surprising to know that this man was on his agenda to get F-22.

 

[neehar]

so chances are greater for fgfa to get in to service faster than f-35????

 

[jhungary]

agree with most of the part, however this is also true to most american weapons . neither F-35 nor the f-22 has a overwhelming superiority in all encompassing scenario, it has it's own limits and it's own comfort zone, out of it, it may lose it's advantage. My frustration was with how most Americans continue to downplay and in some cases completely go into denial over the capabilities of its rivals.

it was quiet surprising to know that this man was on his agenda to get F-22.

I would really want to know which aircraft in current asrenal can defeat F-22 in any scenario?? Do bear in mine, i mean Current Asrenal not something not yet produced.

so chances are greater for fgfa to get in to service faster than f-35????

No, US have already received F-35, unless FGFA were in production 2 years ago, there are no way FGFA are faster

 

[neehar]

No, US have already received F-35, unless FGFA were in production 2 years ago, there are no way FGFA are faster

well received is a different term ..is it currently in active service????

 

[jhungary]

well received is a different term ..is it currently in active service????

Yes, 4 Squadron (48 Planes) of USAF and USMC have already received and OPERATE F-35 as of today

US Marines Establish First Operational Squad Of F-35 Fighters

F-35A OUE events completed, success handed to AETC for review



67 planes have been delievered to US Military as of today, in term of F-22 progress, we are 1/3 off the number we delievered off F-22.

 

[for truth]

Dude, no one is doubting there are concern by the way the F-35 Exist. But your bolt parts on that post had already defeated the OP Title if Canadian have not official made any decision on buying or not buying the aircraft, how can the "Cancel" the Contract of Buying F-35? Was that then the title are misleading?

the title was as intriguing to me as it was to you, as i said earlier, I'm not the editor of the news, i found this piece of news interesting and posted it here to know others opinion. Canadians may buy it or prefer not to, it makes no difference to me at all.

As i showed in my post, Canadian NEVER even signed the contract to start with (They always maintain they will discuss the possibility of buying in and between 2013), it would be foolish to include Canada as a factor on buying the craft to begin with, so it's already calculated that the chance Canadian are NOT buying the craft.

no one here is saying that Canadians had reached a deal with Americans to buy it, I'm unaware of any such news or politics surrounding the Canadian decision regarding the F-35, but in this context, the cancellation may mean that , the plans to buy F-35 was under consideration, but, might have been dropped under criticism of cost overrun

F-35 is already in production, the US Military (Marine and AF) are set to receive the 100th F-35 on Lot III Production. Britain are due to receive the first prototype in 2013, Australia are due to receive the first craft on 2014. I don't know why you hate the F-35 so much and want to see it demise, but they are not gonna, ain't no point hoping it anyway.

the topic here was about Canadian govt stand on F-35, to begin my part, when did i ever say i hated F-35, it flies or not concerns me the least, India has its own plans, In fact, i for once was rooting the F-35 for Indian aircraft carrier, but considering all the allegations about cost of maintenance and whole lot of other issues, it would wise to choose a typhoon naval variant or the Rafale naval variant.

Anyway, i still do believe it to be a engineering marvel, unfortunately surrounded by lot of allegations. let's see how far can it make it's own mark in the history books.

 

[for truth]

I would really want to know which aircraft in current asrenal can defeat F-22 in any scenario?? Do bear in mine, i mean Current Asrenal not something not yet produced.

well, you friend made a point

"In the real world some fighter jets have flown much further and faster than the data provided by aircraft manufacturers web site. Some exaggerate others understate, those who know the truth either aren't cleared to correct the information OR have no incentive to do so OR disinformation helps their cause."

understand this conclusion, and when did i ever say that there were aircraft in operation that hold overwhelming superiority over F-22, the pilots of F-22 know it better, so let it rest here, arguing further makes no sense.
Every one here knows that only 5th gen aircraft in operation is F-22 and F-35, no need for sarcasm, try to understand the context in which i made my comment.

 

[jhungary]

the title was as intriguing to me as it was to you, as i said earlier, I'm not the editor of the news, i found this piece of news interesting and posted it here to know others opinion. Canadians may buy it or prefer not to, it makes no difference to me at all.

no one here is saying that Canadians had reached a deal with Americans to buy it, I'm unaware of any such news or politics surrounding the Canadian decision regarding the F-35, but in this context, the cancellation may mean that , the plans to buy F-35 was under consideration, but, might have been dropped under criticism of cost overrun

the topic here was about Canadian govt stand on F-35, to begin my part, when did i ever say i hated F-35, it flies or not concerns me the least, India has its own plans, In fact, i for once was rooting the F-35 for Indian aircraft carrier, but considering all the allegations about cost of maintenance and whole lot of other issues, it would wise to choose a typhoon naval variant or the Rafale naval variant.

Anyway, i still do believe it to be a engineering marvel, unfortunately surrounded by lot of allegations. let's see how far can it make it's own mark in the history books.

dude, nobody is accusing you wrote the article, but since you are the one who post this article, you should have read the article and compare to what known truth before posting, and when yourselve know Canadian were never even choose the F-35 to begin with, they cannot cancel the order,you know this, yet you still post this article up, you are also using misleading indirectly the reader.

I don't know if you care or not care Canadian getting F-35 or not, but if you don't care and this article obiviously misleading or at least twisting the fact to draw in audience, why would you post this article in the first place, when you post an article online which you did not wrote, you have to had an agenda to do so. And i am unclear on what you wanting to achieve.

 

[jhungary]

well, you friend made a point

"In the real world some fighter jets have flown much further and faster than the data provided by aircraft manufacturers web site. Some exaggerate others understate, those who know the truth either aren't cleared to correct the information OR have no incentive to do so OR disinformation helps their cause."

understand this conclusion, and when did i ever say that there were aircraft in operation that hold overwhelming superiority over F-22, the pilots of F-22 know it better, so let it rest here, arguing further makes no sense.
Every one here knows that only 5th gen aircraft in operation is F-22 and F-35, no need for sarcasm, try to understand the context in which i made my comment.

you did.

agree with most of the part, however this is also true to most american weapons . neither F-35 nor the f-22 has a overwhelming superiority in all encompassing scenario, it has it's own limits and it's own comfort zone, out of it, it may lose it's advantage. My frustration was with how most Americans continue to downplay and in some cases completely go into denial over the capabilities of its rivals.

it was quiet surprising to know that this man was on his agenda to get F-22.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/americ...ls-f-35-fighter-purchase-2.html#ixzz2ENXcXW00

If F-22 cannot achieve overhelm superiority than there will be some aircraft is better than F-22, this is the context of an agrument. If F-22 is better than everything, then they HAVE overhelm superiority.

yes, there are opeational envelope on EACH fighter aircraft, but being the first 5th Gen and the only 5th GenerationIN SERVICE, they are bound to be better than any previous generation on average, while heads up fight is the one that can show the true different, but you cannot denial the term 5th Generation Jet is better than 4.5 or 4++ Generation in general. Otherwise why progress a generation if they are the same or inferior?

 

[for truth]

dude, nobody is accusing you wrote the article, but since you are the one who post this article, you should have read the article and compare to what known truth before posting, and when yourselve know Canadian were never even choose the F-35 to begin with, they cannot cancel the order,you know this, yet you still post this article up, you are also using misleading indirectly the reader.

I don't know if you care or not care Canadian getting F-35 or not, but if you don't care and this article obiviously misleading or at least twisting the fact to draw in audience, why would you post this article in the first place, when you post an article online which you did not wrote, you have to had an agenda to do so. And i am unclear on what you wanting to achieve.

i'm repeating it again and again, i posted it because i wanted to know what others thought about it, i had no prior information as to whether the Canadian govt had any such plans to buy or were they ever a part of it. i believed that the Canadians were a confirmed customer, and seeing this news intrigued me, now that you made the point that the Canadians were never in this deal, i have different opinion. I cared to post it because, i thought it was worthy to considered and discussed with others on this forum, but, i was wrong, never had i thought that i would be in this kind of discussion.

and how exactly did i mislead the readers? does posting a article mislead people?..false made up stories mislead people, i just copied what was there on a reliable source, and that's it.

and please pal, have mercy on this poor soul, for the last time, i never had any agenda nor any ulterior motives, let me now rest a little bit.