Can Muslims be Secular Liberal?

[Menace2Society]

The Queen is the head of state, and head of Church of England.
Church Bishops sit in the House of Lord, meaning they actively participate in the legislative process. This is like mulvis sitting in the Senate.

House of lords has Muslim members. The rest is just figureheads, British pomp. State is secular, so is USA. This is why it's the closest humanity has come to forming a multicultural/ethnic/religion citizens who get on (just about). This could never happen in a theocracy. Charging Jizya tax, do you know how humiliating that is just because of a difference in faith? Some things just belong in the past.

 

[peagle]

House of lords has Muslim members. The rest is just figureheads, British pomp. State is secular, so is USA. This is why it's the closest humanity has come to forming a multicultural/ethnic/religion citizens who get on (just about). This could never happen in a theocracy. Charging Jizya tax, do you know how humiliating that is just because of a difference in faith? Some things just belong in the past.

You are being extremely unfair in your judgement. We agree about the conditions in the UK, but your evaluation smacks of double standards, that's wrong and in poor taste.

You are dismissing a legal reality of a non-secular UK, while attacking a non-reality of a theocracy that does not exit, it's nonsense.
You're also attacking a tax that does not exit and has not exited for centuries. At any rate your understanding of that tax is also wrong, so please leave your moral high ground where it belongs, on the rubbish dump. Please, lets have some fairness.

 

[M. Sarmad]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Depends on whom you ask and what one's understanding/interpretation of the (contemporarily much-derided) terms "Secular" and "Liberal" is ...

The Founding Fathers of the nation, however, had a very clear understanding of these concepts and for them "separation of state and church" and "liberalism" were not only compatible with Islam but were also desirable/advisable


For Example:

"We heartily welcome the liberal movement in modern Islam..."

and

"The claim of the present generation of Muslim liberals to re-interpret the foundational legal principles, in the light of their own experience and the altered conditions of modern life, is, in my opinion, perfectly justified."

(Allama Muhammad Iqbal, The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam)


Sir Syed Ahmed Khan is hailed as the father of the two nation theory. He, in a lecture given by him before a large and very influential audience of Muslims in Lucknow, on 18th December, 1887, said :

" ..... Gentlemen, I am not a Conservative, I am a great Liberal.... "

And Jinnah fits quite closely the model of the classic liberal politician.... He wanted a Liberal constitution for Pakistan (as recorded by Fatima Jinnah in "My Brother")


And as for Separation of State and Church(i.e. Secularism), Iqbal categorically stated:

"... Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view.."

 

[fisher1]

...

The site I linked give references to hadiths. If you don't believe it, it is your problem.

Funny thing is few decades ago when West was opposed to faggots, you wouldn't be justifying it either. But now that West is pushing it, you want to justify it through Islam.

House of lords has Muslim members. The rest is just figureheads, British pomp. State is secular, so is USA. This is why it's the closest humanity has come to forming a multicultural/ethnic/religion citizens who get on (just about). This could never happen in a theocracy. Charging Jizya tax, do you know how humiliating that is just because of a difference in faith? Some things just belong in the past.

Ever heard of Riasat e Medina?

 

[StormBreaker]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Define Muslim ?

If you know the correct attributes of a real muslim, Those latter terms are just a pillar of a rational and real Muslim.

Prophet SA was a very humble, Open minded person who always respected other faiths.

You can throw the modern nude naked liberal shit concepts in the bin because liberal or secular are better terms than landay ke angrez of Pakistan

 

[insight-out]

Muslims can be many things. Muslims can be liars, cheaters, alcoholics, and fornicators. Sin does not necessarily put you out of the fold of Islam.

Now about your question. It depends on the definition of these terms. In my view Islam is a very liberal, and progressive religion.

Islam is also secular, in the sense that the state is required to serve and protect regardless of religion. But in an Islamic society, it is guided by and subservient to Divine law.

 

[Longhorn]

Muslim follow Islam. Islam is the deen of Allah and Muslim submits to the will of Allah.

That's the definition... As defined by Allah

If you hate that.. too bad for you!

The proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
The purpose of any belief system or philosophy, regardless of whether it may be "divine" or man made, is to create human material of the highest order and quality.
The question is, is any given belief system or philosophy producing the human material and consequently, society, it was intended to produce.
If it is then it is being utilised correctly and is fit for purpose, if not then either it not being utilised correctly or it is no longer fit for purpose and it needs to have a re evaluation.
The results always speak for themselves.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Islam , Gives you Quran tells you about Prophets and their stories , message of Allah

Prophet Mohammad , brought the message shared it with Humanity

• Hadiths , is the collection of day to day decisions made in his life time to help guide people on matters of day to day activities
• Includes examples of living side by side other religions
• However , people as asked to use "Common Sense" as civilization evolves

Mandatory Acts

• Prayers
• Fasting
• Haj at least once in life if your finances permit
• Standing against Injustice (Social / Moral / War time)
• Responsibilities you have as Human for Society (Parents / Children / family / Neighbors / City / Country)
• Taxation
• Donation to Poor

Now beyond this ....

If you lie
If you cheat
If you are corrupt bastard who does not pays tax
If you hide properties
If you don't donate
If you don't gift your family (if you have resources)

All this goes on your record for end of day Judgement you would be known as a very bad Human in your life
However still a Muslim perhaps you could work really hard in your last 10 years to pray or beg for mercy get forgiven possible or Donate to orphanage or poor


Example:

• If you are fat bastard who drinks 80 Lakh Rupee Lassi is example of person going to hell , for charging state as a business expense

As you can see living side by side with Minorities and other religions is already part of Islam which is quite moderate from it's inception days or starting days





Outside the Sphere of Islam

Have nothing to do with being Liberal these are "add-ons" added in last 100 years in Western Society as social units broke down society drifted away from Religion after war (World War2)

• Feminism concepts creation of world war 1 era, post war when large number of men died and women had to work
• Weird Wedding Laws and Unions, forbidden in Both Christianity (the original groups) and Islam
• Doubting Prophet Mohammad's as last Prophet (if you are Muslims)

If you come across , a practicing Roman Catholic or even Orthodox Christians they all generally have similar concepts about Family , Role of Man or Women in society - Marrige provided you find one practicing one

 

[cocomo]

This takfiri mindset produces cut throat lunatics

 

[AZMwi]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Liberalism is the first step towards atheism.

This takfiri mindset produces cut throat lunatics

and liberal secular atheist mindset produces the likes of hitler, stalin, mao, bush, trump, obama etc.

 

[Clutch]

The proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
The purpose of any belief system or philosophy, regardless of whether it may be "divine" or man made, is to create human material of the highest order and quality.
The question is, is any given belief system or philosophy producing the human material and consequently, society, it was intended to produce.
If it is then it is being utilised correctly and is fit for purpose, if not then either it not being utilised correctly or it is no longer fit for purpose and it needs to have a re evaluation.
The results always speak for themselves.

Over 1,400 years of marvelous results...

Just look at the marvelous Islamic have story, culture, civilization, community, humanity, purpose, and strength.

All from the blessings of Allah. Quran. Sunnah. The Heroes. The Alim.

This takfiri mindset produces cut throat lunatics

BS. Neoliberal Maoists, Communist, Oil Pot, Nazi Race Nationalism, Imperialism, Hindutvaism have killed million and millions more than any ISIS extremists.

 

[JackTheRipper]

Nope. They are not Muslim.

Where does the Quran say a Muslim is
Secular.
Extremist.
Terrorist.
Liberal.
Gay.
Lesbian.
Communist.
Rapist.
Murderer.
Pedophile.
Marxist???????

It says the opposite. Give me a quote from the Quran, fool!

You People are too Hypocrite or Idiot..
1st Get Knowledge, Then Talk to Others.

Liberalism is the first step towards atheism.

and liberal secular atheist mindset produces the likes of hitler, stalin, mao, bush, trump, obama etc.

Has any one from your list started war on religion basis?
I am reading this shit from years, You copy pasted facebook post,

Even Stalin and Hitler fought for political gains..

And watch your ugly gay mullah who all butchering for religion..

 

[Musalman]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Liberal Yes Secular No

Liberal not westernized. Liberal as in ready to listen to other point of view. Secular as in non religious, no he can not be a Muslim if he does not believe in Islam.

Can he be secular? Yes but then we won't call him a Muslim.

 

[JawadKKhan]

Over 1,400 years of marvelous results...

Just look at the marvelous Islamic have story, culture, civilization, community, humanity, purpose, and strength.

All from the blessings of Allah. Quran. Sunnah. The Heroes. The Alim.


BS. Neoliberal Maoists, Communist, Oil Pot, Nazi Race Nationalism, Imperialism, Hindutvaism have killed million and millions more than any ISIS extremists.

Over 1,400 years of marvelous results ???

LMAO! From where you have read the history ? That's a laughable statement for any student of history. The marvelous period was very brief period where muslims focused on sciences, military tactics, technologies of those era, where extremism / religious fanaticism was suppressed, where focus was on practical things. This period was from around 800 AD to 1250 AD. What happened next is the world's greatest empire Mongols swept through islamic world. They razed entire cities to the ground. Mongol army used to enter cities, kill all men & children and rape all women. Then comes the colonial era beginning from 15th century. Most of Islamic world went under slavery. There was a time until not long ago when entire islamic world was enslaved. After the WWII, when great western powers fought with each other, we saw our freedom. Since our freedom till now we are completely dependent on west on science & technology. How many inventions muslims contributed? how many science nobel prizes we got?. The one who got you don't even consider him as muslim. Today with few clicks, USA can turn off your entire communication as we don't have our own satellites, the GPS we use is their property, the very internet is their creation, most of infrastructure is theirs. It sounds funny when I see religious fanatics giving threats to west while using laptops, processors made by west, the communication / satellites of west, the platforms like facebook or others of west. Kuch apna bi hai ?? Marvelous !! LMAO.

Yes for few 100 years it was a great / golden age. why ? Because muslims were practical at that time. That age can come back if we shift our focus from who is muslim and who is not to REAL practical things.

BS. Neoliberal Maoists, Communist, Oil Pot, Nazi Race Nationalism, Imperialism, Hindutvaism have killed million and millions more than any ISIS extremists.

Now finally you agree that Liberalism is best for humanity. The hindutva, the Nazis and all those were EXTREME right wing groups... Liberism / secularism is always at the left side. They are ALWAYS only for the human-rights first. The religious fanatics & extreme right wing groups are same in every culture. Our hardcore cut throat mullahs are equal to hindutva cut throats of india. They both have same mindset.

 

[HammerHead081]

The site I linked give references to hadiths. If you don't believe it, it is your problem.

Funny thing is few decades ago when West was opposed to faggots, you wouldn't be justifying it either. But now that West is pushing it, you want to justify it through Islam.


Ever heard of Riasat e Medina?

Even then i would have justified it because i cannot watch human beings getting killed for acts that dont even affect others.

I refuse to believe in most hadith because they just contradict each other. I mean didnt you see from my example? Prophet being an extremely merciful person telling the angel to not hurt the people despite how they pelted him with stones OR the person who used to to throw garbage on prophet despite which he took care of her VS. prophet outright saying in the hadith on that website just to outright kill human beings for same sex relation which doesn't affect anyone else?!?!