Can Muslims be Secular Liberal?

[JackTheRipper]

State do take side, even in secularism like USA. Their policy in supporting Israel comes from Evangelical Christianity doctrine that is very pro Israel that become the dominant religion of American people

You have to check secularism in US.
Israel is separate country, So it may be called National Interest.

 

[AZMwi]

secularism

the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.

In simple word, in Secularism, all are equal, it does not matter what is their religion, state can not take side of any one religion...

Some words from the final sermon of our Beloved PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S PEACE BE UPON HIM

" All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. "

And in Islamic society, state principals must be based on Islam. state affairs cannot be separated from religion.

 

[Destranator]

State do take side, even in secularism like USA. Their policy in supporting Israel comes from Evangelical Christianity doctrine that is very pro Israel that become the dominant religion of American people

That plays a part with Republicans but the main driver for support for Israel is bribery of Congress and White House by Israeli/Zionist lobbies such as AIPAC.
If Muslims had 1/10th the IQ of Jews, we would be dominating the world. Instead we are busy multiplying like rats and killing each other.

 

[AZMwi]

ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda are Jews? not Muslims..? Lol, You are living in fools world

hitler, stalin, bush, mao, genghis khan, colonial european empires were Muslims????????

Ok

View attachment 803903View attachment 803904

ہیجڑوں کے گھر بچا پیدا ہوا اور انہوں نے چوم چوم کر مار دیا

u r constantly bringing this argument in every single thread related to Islam. Is this the best u got??
U think this so called molvi represents every Muslim????
Grow up

 

[Zhukov]

Be what you want to be and let others be what they want.
Respect Difference of opinnion.

I dont know how this simple rule can be taught to our nation.

 

[JackTheRipper]

hitler, stalin, bush, mao, genghis khan, colonial european empires were Muslims????????

ہیجڑوں کے گھر بچا پیدا ہوا اور انہوں نے چوم چوم کر مار دیا

u r constantly bringing this argument in every single thread related to Islam. Is this the best u got??
U think this so called molvi represents every Muslim????
Grow up

Hypocrisy at peak !

Had Hitler, Stalin, Bush, and other started wars on religion basis?

Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS not killing people on religion basis?

Even Hitlers fought for political gains, World Wars 1, 2 were for political gains, to hijack other countries resources and later 60 millions Jews propaganda spread.. Was Japan killing Chinese for their religions? Pearl Harbor attack was for religion?

what is mean by this sh*t:
ہیجڑوں کے گھر بچا پیدا ہوا اور انہوں نے چوم چوم کر مار دیا

Kon sa Hijda? Tariq Jamil or Zakir Naik?

Some words from the final sermon of our Beloved PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S PEACE BE UPON HIM

" All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. "

And in Islamic society, state principals must be based on Islam. state affairs cannot be separated from religion.

OK, Then make Pakistan to Afghanistan

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

To my recollection Islam has always been moderate comparative to other religions

• Muslims Allowed population of cities with Diverse religions in return for Taxation system applicable to provide security to various minorities , many countries now follow same principles

• Islamic civilizations often have example of court case where Minorities rights were upheld

• Muslims housed Jewish population when Romans kicked them out at various points in history out of certain places. For vast majority of 1800 years Jewish people openly were part of Muslim country's population

• Islam shows no differentiation between Muslim form Africa , or Muslim from Far East Asia , or Pakistan or Iran or Arab lands

• Women Actively worked in Business or Operated family business (Prophet's first wife was business owner)

• Rich History with Artistic work , Scientific work and even Music

The Islam of last 75 years post world war I and based around Saudi Arabian hardline is not necessarily close to what past Muslims civilizations did in past

• Example Saudia Introduced concept of Saudia only for Saudi putting minorities in prison or working for low wages
• Introduced the black cloak while this was mainly used by Jewish Women in past historically, the usage of black cloak demands more study , why specifically a colorless black was chosen
• Severely changed working role of women in Society
• The odd constructions done in Makkah i.e Gigantic buildings when specifically there are hadiths warning against arrival of quest to construct largest buildings in Arabian Peninsula

[Note: Saudia Under 2030 program is changing majority of above]


In Pakistan , certain Political Sectors Islam is used as a Tool to Justify giving votes to a person who claims to be a great leader. However in reality they are merely nothing more then a tribal , rich guy who happens to be son of previous leader
People like JUI-F are worse of worse bunch



Secularism in Islam ends at certain limit

Not Acceptable 100%

• Ultra Feminst Views
• Roles which change natural role of Man/Women in society
• Un Natural Wed Lock
• Desire to do drugs and loose track of life
• Tax Evasion
• Weird groups like Ahmadi who distort fundamental aspects of religion

Apart from the last point most Christian groups (traditional) also have similar views about Marriage/Feminisms , un natural wedlock, I have seen few people who operate very strictly on such things and to me they resemble closely to how Muslims look after their families.

 

[AZMwi]

Hypocrisy at peak !

Had Hitler, Stalin, Bush, and other started wars on religion basis?

Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS not killing people on religion basis?

Even Hitlers fought for political gains, World Wars 1, 2 were for political gains, to hijack other countries resources and later 60 millions Jews propaganda spread.. Was Japan killing Chinese for their religions? Pearl Harbor attack was for religion?

hitler stalin killed killed millions because of their religious beliefs as they themselves were atheists. . hitler killed jews and stalin killed orthodox christians and muslims. bush openly declared his wars as crusades.
taliban al qaeda isis are organisations that came into existence after all of these illegal wars and chaos started by the secular west.

what is mean by this sh*t:
ہیجڑوں کے گھر بچا پیدا ہوا اور انہوں نے چوم چوم کر مار دیا

Kon sa Hijda? Tariq Jamil or Zakir Naik?

i wrote this sh*t to expose ur grudge, spitefulness and hate towards Islam and it worked.

 

[AZMwi]

OK, Then make Pakistan to Afghanistan

look at the current situation of Pakistan. do u think its any better than Afghanistan. Afghans have nothing to eat, no electricity, gas, fuel. its almost the same in Pakistan. but the difference is Afghanistan was destroyed by your favorite western secular countries and pakistan is being destroyed by the secular liberal elite. so who is hypocrite now????

 

[Goenitz]

The key concept under secularism is 'neutrality'. At a personal level being secular is somewhat of a paradox for a person following any religion, because choosing one religion over the other is a negation of neutrality. However, in a more pragmatic sense, one can be secular as long as one is accommodative of other peoples' belief systems and does not apply any discrimination.

At a state level, defining secularism is very simple - separation between religion and affairs of the state. In this sense, there are Muslim countries which are secular.

Liberalism is more prone to interpretations and is often tied to culture and therefore suffers from relativeness. Unless muslims (or followers of any other religion) have total consensus on what actions and behaviour their religion requires of them, it is rather difficult to argue on this.

best answer man.

Being secular means that you even allow gay marraiges. Pak cannot allow that, for sure. However, tehre are redlines even in secualr state so that homo-relations are our. If pakistanis don't discriminate on religion, caste, ethinicity, then it is secularism. As we are seeing a person beyond its creed. So the realtivity differs, otherwise everyone is secular to soem extent.

As a Muslim, our rules are Divine driven. So we don't have a 'liberty' to adopt anything. Like to 'prevent' sex crimes, we cannot open red light areas. Similarly, Dutch allowed < 5mg heroine, some US states allowed cannabis, etc.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

WW2 was not about Religion ,"There was no Anti Christ or Demon"
it was about Ethnicity, and Treaties enforced on Germany post World War 1 which stole 75% of German Income and transferred it to France/England for damages claim from World War 1 , in fact the last payments were recently concluded


It was war between

French / British (Anglo Sax) vs Remnants of German Empire (Election based society was introduced after WW1)

Jewish people in Germany were moved to camps as they were seen as conspirators , as Jewish news papers wrote papers in USA , to persuade Americans to Jump into Europe's war. The Sentiment in USA at the time was they did not wanted to get involved in Europe's wars. Of course back in Germany people took this news negatively and Jewish people were declared unwelcomed

Afterwar:

• The justification for bloodshed was later created (it was needed), to soften the image of destruction so people can be assure they are going to heaven post death as heroes
• After the war ended , the winners of course declared they found "Smoking Gun" and conjured up a story that demons were operating killing Jews. While ignoring the scientific evidence and Math
• Today of course all Hollywood movies claim war was about Jews, Open Netflix and every 10-20 movie title you will see a movie about
• Story was painted to make soldiers on one side doing work of "God" on the good side , people fighting for God against a Demonic force

At One point war was pretty much over

French were defeated, Germany were in power in France
UK was on last leg (They literally were on brink of defeat)

• At this point USA entered war after an attack from Japanese Navy planes on Pearl Harbor
• USA economically was may be x50 Times strong then whole world at that point
• USA was industrially x100 times faster then any nation on world

Japan was busy plundering Korea and Chinese mainland and expanding influence over Philippines



Note: Historic Fact

• Just like Germany Kicked out Jewish people , USA kicked out their Asian (Japanese population) taking away their business / land forcefully and transferring people to camps , the land was never returned to owners after war as it was sold to other people

Long before war

(Part of US history)

• 100-150 years prior to war , Chinese people mostly helped build the industrial ground work in USA , i.e. by making train routes. USA had laws which did not allowed Chinese or Asians in general to Own Property in America even as Immigrants this is why they don't have 30-40% population in America today. Germany introduced similar laws during war time against Jewish businesses.

Prior to war , USA of course as we know , have history of stealing land from Native people of Americas and selling their land to new farmers and immigrants from Europe (This is a event which lasts 200-300 years prior to the world war)

• I found evidence of lingering hate against Natives of America in social media up to High school level where people abusing Youths or sports teams from Native Students , which is generally accepted and people openly mock , Native American's forceful migration and why they are still crying / in pain from those ordeals. There is a silent or unspoken culture which exists in American society which is very Anti "Natives" the real Natives
• Natives often were referred as Red Skinned or Red Indians
• Now there are special zones , where such Natives live they are called "Reserves" often located in deserted or desert like environment not hospitable

Hollywood does not makes 20 movies about Native American's struggles yearly may be 1 movie in 10 years


Back to WW2 , Germans lost the war due to Tactical mistake of two front war

Germans made a mistake by engaging Soviets which spread their forces on Two Front, and supply shortages for raw material for weapon's factory, Radar & Code breaking Machine also played vital role to destroy German Airforce and Communication

Which is why they eventually lost


American dropped 2 Nukes on Japan just for testing out the weapon's destruction as Japanese thought they are protected by their "Emperor" who they claimed to be Godly and this status still exists in Japanese society the role of "Emperor"


WW2 was not about secular society vs none secular


When bombs feel on city if it fell on building it burned and killed people without looking at who was secular or not



Example City of Dresden in Germany was destroyed 95-98%

 

[Zibago]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

You can be whatever you want to be

 

[Clutch]

ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda are Jews? not Muslims..? Lol, You are living in fools world

Nope. They are not Muslim.

Where does the Quran say a Muslim is
Secular.
Extremist.
Terrorist.
Liberal.
Gay.
Lesbian.
Communist.
Rapist.
Murderer.
Pedophile.
Marxist???????

It says the opposite. Give me a quote from the Quran, fool!

 

[ST72]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Of course they can. What do you mean by secular and liberal?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Do you see Turks as Muslims?

Turkish are 100% Muslims why would they not be