Can Muslims be Secular Liberal?

[SQ8]

So far muslims cannot be qualified as just muslims so they can be anything really

 

[Longhorn]

No Suck-ular way!

Nope. Period. Muslims can only be Islamic. Nothing else.

Not secular.
Not Extremist.
Not terrorist.
Not Liberal.
Not gay.
Not lesbian.
Not Communist.
Not rapist.
Not murderer.
Not pedophile.
Not Marxist.

Only Islamic.

Even Muslim is only a label.
What defines a human being is their selflessness, their tolerance and their humanity.
Everything thing else is a slogan and a label.

 

[Imran Khan]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Refer the chart for good explanation of Muslim obviously the list of Professions is too long but listed obvious professions

Majority of the freeloaders in Bullshit category will try to convince people no no they are the part of greater circle of society and that is where the conflict rises but in general the Universal definition of what a Muslim is crystal as water coming out of glacier for those who have wisdom to see the clarity

 

[Clutch]

Even Muslim is only a label.
What defines a human being is their selflessness, their tolerance and their humanity.
Everything thing else is a slogan and a label.

Muslim follow Islam. Islam is the deen of Allah and Muslim submits to the will of Allah.

That's the definition... As defined by Allah

If you hate that.. too bad for you!

 

[dBSPL]

Refer the chart for good explanation of Muslim obviously the list of Professions is too long but listed obvious professions



View attachment 804154

I hope I understand the schema correctly, it seems that the Level-3 group is negatively differentiated from its major with the tax loss it creates.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I hope I understand the schema correctly, it seems that the Level-3 group is negatively differentiated from its major with the tax loss it creates.

Section 3 is just what a Muslim has to do from a smaller family unit preceptive

• Taxation is a Universal practice which Muslims are suggested to do every time they are paid income
• Donate to Poor and Taxation are two important responsibilities towards maintaining harmony in Muslim state (These practices have been widely adopted in Western World).

In Pakistan the Agricultural Sector is free from Tax Net

• No Tax is imposed on Acres and Acres of Land which is Agricultural Land so certain families have become super rich
• These families come into Politics and then prevent any mechanism which comes into play to enforce tax
• Secondary families like Nawaz Sharif , own Sugar Mills to buy cheap raw goods from famers and then sell it making hefty profits , this money is Laundered overseas which is why there are open corruption cases against them

Some of these families have become so powerful that even a convicted man , from Supreme court was able to escape from Prison to UK (where he is a fugitive ) , with fake Medical reports , this is the extent of power these few families hold over Pakistan

 

[peagle]

Words like secular, liberal, mullah, fundamentalist are casually thrown around as insults in our society. You could be labelled a 'secular liberal' by someone who doesn't agree with your opinion on a certain religious matter even if you happen to pray 5 times a day

This is an absurd question, because religion has nothing to do with secularism.
Secularism is a politically ideology, just like followers of all religion do not follow the teachings of their religion properly, nor do Muslims.

Muslim countries have prisons because Muslims break the law. Similarly, Muslims can easily be secular because the mosques relationship with the state is not ordained within Islam, it was only part of wider Islamic thought processes, which has concluded that religion is not totally separate from the state. But it is not something that classifies as a sin if you prefer to keep a formal distance between mosque and the state.

Extremely simple conclusions result in boxing yourself into a tight corner, so please lets avoid simple conclusions. It is important to remember that development of Islam has introduced processes after the time of prophet Mohammad, those things are not part of the central belief system, to be judged by God.

Therefore, a Muslim can very easily be secular, although he/she might get funny looks from other Muslims.

 

[blain2]

Maybe the simplest way to look at this is in a binary way (I know there are multiple shades of grey here) but let's just simplify.

Secular thought - Requires one to keep religion and temporal powers separate. Furthermore, religion has no say or influence in matters of governance in any domain.
Muslims - Believe in the unity of God and "accept" His commandments over *all* matters whether they are religious or temporal in nature.

So now try to bring the two together and you will have some issues. Most would settle on some type of a hybrid system which would be disliked by the purists on each side.

Very basically, in order to be Muslim, you have to accede that the God-given law supersedes everything else. So now you have to ask this question of yourself. However since most Muslim countries don't implement Sharia to the hilt, we have quite a few shades of conservative and secular Muslims on the spectrum.

On the issue of Liberal vs. Muslim there is a lot more room. There are liberal interpretations of Islam and then conservative ones as such there is room to accommodate both conservative and liberal views with limits on both sides. As an example, some of these limits would rule out Kharjiites etc. on one side and on the other those who are proponents of accepting homosexuality etc. in Islam.

 

[fisher1]

Muslims have no obligation to stop the spread of LGBT rights.

We do however have a responsibility to voice our beliefs, which make clear that homosexuality is a sin.

Is penetrating the behind of another man a belief or an action?.

This is why ulema are absolutely necessary just so people won't make these deviant interpretations of Islam to justify their wrongs and make it a part of Islam. And also why these enemies of Islam hate Ulemas so much because they are the resistance to deviant interpretations of Islam.

Islam is very clear on what should be done to people engaging in sodomy and their punishment.

The Punishment For Homosexuality - Islam Question & Answer

Some Companions said that the punishment for homosexuality is to burn the homosexuals with fire, and some of them viewed that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death.

islamqa.info

LGBT people have no rights just like pedophiles have no right. Nauzbillah, they are people that should be executed outright with fire and you are speaking about their rights?

 

[My-Analogous]

What do yawl think, please post for and against!

Thanks


This is for educational purposes only.

Muslim can't downgrade his character. Muslim character is mush higher then that and example is our Prophet

 

[JawadKKhan]

-Can a muslim be allowed to be secular / liberal.

Well, As long as his actions do not defy religion. As long as his social / human values do not conflict with religious teachings.

The emphasis of liberalism is on social welfare, human-rights before any belief systems. That means, a liberal would do whatever he/she wants to do but will keep in mind human-rights of others.

Some suggested if paedophile also liberism ?. Not at all. Liberals thought process is centered around human-rights. If someone does that then he is a criminal deserving capital punishment.

Same applies to criminals from religious groups. We can surely observe which group produces more pedophiles. I won't shy from the fact that Madrassahs have remained at the center of worst crimes like pedophile and terrorism as well. It doesn't mean ALL madrassahs or religious groups indulge in such horrible crimes but certainly there are many who are producing such monsters. The ones who commit such stuff are not because of religion its because of the environment, awareness, upbringing and many other factors.


However, for the folks who believe that "Liberals" are out of religion. I'd say not to worry for them. Let them live as they want to live their own lives. They are adults, they have their own mind & beliefs. Religion has categorically told there is no compulsion in religion. If you want to force individuals into religions, it will not work. As there is no compulsion in religion, As religion is one's own inner belief. Everyone will go to their own graves. You can only influence other group with your own example, if religion has made you a better human, obviously the ones you think that are out of the religion will be influenced.

So, I believe we need to move forward from these questions. Whether liberals r muslims or not ? We are not even qualified to ask this question. One study showed Scandinavian countries are more islamic then islamic countries. We are full of lies, bribery, corruption, unclean cities,. and more. So let's not look into other's lives or lifestyles. Even is you think they are in conflict of core islamic beliefs, its their own decisions of life. These are not made in an instance, they are the results of one's lifetime experiences. We need to give space to people's inner belief's. We don't have to be judge. Even, from religious perspective questioning someone's core beliefs is not allowed. So first we label someone as "liberal" then next step we take is whether the individual is muslim or not.. Come on. Just move on from such stuff.

BTW you are free to disregard all the rubbish i wrote. That's my personal thoughts. Not from religious scholar or a secular analyst.

 

[Menace2Society]

Muslims in the UK follow secular principles and they're doing okay. I find a secular government acts as a balance. Also there is no favourtism. Bias like religion or ethnicity is always the precursor to a civil war. Theocratic states struggle to remain neutral in its peoples affairs.

 

[peagle]

Muslims in the UK follow secular principles and they're doing okay. I find a secular government acts as a balance. Also there is no favourtism. Bias like religion or ethnicity is always the precursor to a civil war. Theocratic states struggle to remain neutral in its peoples affairs.

Bhai jaan, sorry to burst your bubble, but UK is not a secular country and has never been.

The Queen is the head of state, and head of Church of England.
Church Bishops sit in the House of Lord, meaning they actively participate in the legislative process. This is like mulvis sitting in the Senate.

Secularism means jack sh.t, because law does not make you secular. UK is beautiful because we have a good society, we have our problems but on balance we are pretty good.
Although, recently few draconian laws have been introduced, this is very worrying and saddens me, because in the long run, these laws will alienate people, which is bad for a harmonious society.

 

[HammerHead081]

Is penetrating the behind of another man a belief or an action?.

This is why ulema are absolutely necessary just so people won't make these deviant interpretations of Islam to justify their wrongs and make it a part of Islam. And also why these enemies of Islam hate Ulemas so much because they are the resistance to deviant interpretations of Islam.

Islam is very clear on what should be done to people engaging in sodomy and their punishment.

The Punishment For Homosexuality - Islam Question & Answer

Some Companions said that the punishment for homosexuality is to burn the homosexuals with fire, and some of them viewed that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death.

islamqa.info

LGBT people have no rights just like pedophiles have no right. Nauzbillah, they are people that should be executed outright with fire and you are speaking about their rights?

Oh so you want to outright kill human beings just for being in a relationship with someone of same sex? First fix your sick mentality. It is not permissible to kill gays. We aren't allowed to kill people who change their religion as long as it's not to commit sedition and treason, therefore we cannot kill them for their practices as long as it does not cause us Muslims any harm.

You give the example of the people of Lut but fail to mention that Lut as a whole nation was corrupted and committed far greater crimes which led to God destroying them. Also mentioning of lust on same sex as to tell us that it is haram in Islam.

And then these couple of hadith where Prophet is outright telling his people to kill these people? What is the proof that these Hadith are correct and have not been corrupted overtime? And are you crazy enough to think that Prophet would order killing of humans (who is known to be pelted by stones and did nothing) just because of this act?