Can Japan show the West how to live peacefully with Islam?

[LeveragedBuyout]

Define 'terrorism' for me.

I'll be happy to in a thread where it's relevant.

 

[Falcon29]

Finished reading. I don't have much to add to my previous comment, except to say that Susan Rice is approaching this from a political perspective, not an anthropological perspective. She makes a lot of claims about how X factor affects the development of terrorism, without presenting any data to support such claims. I'm afraid this paper doesn't cut it.

I like to think of myself as an open-minded person, so I thought, if a paper from 2002 doesn't satisfy my friend @Nihonjin1051, I should find a more recent one. From 2010:

Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism

I'm afraid it's reached the same conclusions--little correlation between poverty / low education and terrorism. And this makes sense, because we see it in reality. Osama bin Laden was, of course, from a wealthy family. Mohammed Atta was an engineer and architect, and came from a wealthy family. Ziad Jarrah was from a wealthy family and studied aerospace engineering. Et cetera.

Even if Japan selects only the highly educated and wealthy, there is no guarantee it won't have another Hamburg Cell on its hands at some point.


.

It's simple, where there's occupation there is retribution against it. When there wasn't an occupation, there was no bombing.

You cite an Israeli study. So tell me about Jewish terrorists themselves, what inspires them?

Qibya massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Qibya massacre, also known as the Qibya incident, was a reprisal operation that occurred in October 1953 when Israeli troops under Ariel Sharon attacked the village of Qibya in the West Bank. At least sixty-nine Palestinian Arab villagers,[1] two-thirds of them women and children,[2] were killed. Forty-five houses, a school, and a mosque were destroyed.[

.........................

I'll be happy to in a thread where it's relevant.

It's absolutely relevant since you brought it into this topic.

 

[mahesh.]

I am not good with international matters but I would like to say one point.

I support @LeveragedBuyout

Because radicalization and Islamic terrorism depends on population of Muslims in the region. When there are significant population of Muslims there is kind of insecurity among both the Muslim and other religious groups. Even in India the problem happens only in the places where there is significant Muslim population but not where they are insignificant.
Most religious riots in India occur only in areas where Muslims are significant(Urban areas and Villages in UP Bihar are examples).

In my state(Telangana) there is little to no religious riots in villages(Muslims population is very less in Villages). But the situation changes immediately once you reach Urban city like Hyderabad(There are significant number of Muslims in Hyderabad).

Japanese Muslim population is too less to compare it to US or West and saying West have to learn from Japan doesnt make sense. West and America are far more tolerant than any other country.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

It's simple, where there's occupation there is retribution against it. When there wasn't an occupation, there was no bombing.

Huh? I think you're in the wrong thread.

It's absolutely relevant since you brought it into this topic.

I didn't bring it into the thread. Nihonjin1051 (irrelevantly) stated that Japan doesn't have to worry about domestic radicalization, since radicalization is caused by poverty and lack of education. Out of courtesy, I corrected that misconception. To get involved in a new discussion that's derivative from an already off-topic post, doesn't interest me.

On topic: what do you think about the article posted by the OP?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I like to think of myself as an open-minded person, so I thought, if a paper from 2002 doesn't satisfy my friend @Nihonjin1051, I should find a more recent one. From 2010:

Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism

I'm afraid it's reached the same conclusions--little correlation between poverty / low education and terrorism. And this makes sense, because we see it in reality. Osama bin Laden was, of course, from a wealthy family. Mohammed Atta was an engineer and architect, and came from a wealthy family. Ziad Jarrah was from a wealthy family and studied aerospace engineering. Et cetera.

Even if Japan selects only the highly educated and wealthy, there is no guarantee it won't have another Hamburg Cell on its hands at some point.

Not just rich but often highly educated too. The leader of ISIS for example, Dr. Al-Baghdadi has a PhD.

It's not just economic conditions, look at all the terribly poor people in the world, who have hardly any food, let alone being a billionaire like Bin Laden.

Guizhou for example is the poorest province in China, yet I've never heard of a single instance of terrorism from there.

It's a specific kind of extremist ideology that is the problem. The real poor people of the world don't have the money or the time to go off and fight for some ideology, just imagine a poor rural farmer in Guizhou province for example, how on Earth would he have the time or resources to go and fight in Syria?

 

[Falcon29]

Huh? I think you're in the wrong thread.

Don't cop out, you started this discussion and I've joined.

On topic: what do you think about the article posted by the OP?

I care about your posts.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Not just rich but often highly educated too. The leader of ISIS for example, Dr. Al-Baghdadi has a PhD.

It's not just economic conditions, look at all the terribly poor people in the world, who have hardly any food, let alone being a billionaire like Bin Laden.

Guizhou for example is the poorest province in China, yet I've never heard of a single instance of terrorism from there.

It's a specific kind of extremist ideology that is the problem. The real poor people of the world don't have the money or the time to go off and fight for some ideology.

Exactly. Ideology matters. Culture matters.

Don't cop out, you started this discussion and I've joined.

I care about your posts.

Why did you bring occupation and bombing into this thread? I don't understand the relevance.

 

[Falcon29]

Why did you bring occupation and bombing into this thread? I don't understand the relevance.

You don't understand the relevance yet intentionally cited an Israeli study. It is absolutely relevant. What you've been implying in this whole thread is nonsense.

 

[Aepsilons]

@LeveragedBuyout opined:

I'm afraid it's reached the same conclusions--little correlation between poverty / low education and terrorism.


@Nihonjin1051 's response:




The paper written by Benmelech, Berrebi, and Klor (2010) was a rather didactic piece of work that tried to analyze the link between economic conditions and quality of suicide terrorism. While there are some analysis that counters the positive correlation between economic depravity with terrorism, there has been an indirect relationship. The premise of the paper was to study the intensive rather than the extensive margin of terrorism, and thus posited to study the quality of terrorism and its relation to the underlying economic condition. There was a notion that economic conditions are potentially correlated with the quality of terrorism. Benmelech et al (2010) stated that through systematic analysis uncovered correlation between economic conditions and the characteristics of suicide terrorists and targets that they choose. Benmelech et al (2010) expound on the fact that bad economic conditions affect groups that provide excludable public goods by increasing their ability to commit terror attacks during instances of economic recession or economic hardships. This paper effectively helps to identify the basis of social cleavage theory and its correlation to economic hardships and the quality of terror. In effect, the more economically adversed a society is, the more quality suicide terrorists are recruited , and thus affects the dependent variable. Through meta-analysis, there is a definite link between economic situations, which directly influences the quality of terror, in the fact that the more economically dire the situation, the higher the quality of suicide attacks.


Reference:

Benmelech, Efraim., Berrebi, Claude., Klor, Esteban. (2010). Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism. Retrieved from: Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism

 

[Falcon29]

Exactly. Ideology matters. Culture matters.

.

Tell me more about this ideology:

Qibya massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Qibya massacre, also known as the Qibya incident, was a reprisal operation that occurred in October 1953 when Israeli troops under Ariel Sharon attacked the village of Qibya in the West Bank. At least sixty-nine Palestinian Arab villagers,[1] two-thirds of them women and children,[2] were killed. Forty-five houses, a school, and a mosque were destroyed.[

.........................

@LeveragedBuyout

You were on a roll, what happened? I was looking forward to having a discussion with you.

 

[Aepsilons]

It's a specific kind of extremist ideology that is the problem. The real poor people of the world don't have the money or the time to go off and fight for some ideology, just imagine a poor rural farmer in Guizhou province for example, how on Earth would he have the time or resources to go and fight in Syria?

Yes, as per the theory of social cleavage in its effect on terrorism, the more economically dire the society, this will lead to higher quality of suicide attacks. Many of the propagators of terrorism utilize a millieu of financial support and religious reference to motivate economically disadvantaged individuals to take up jihad. These terrorist organizations are backed up financially by very wealthy organizations. In actuality, terrorists take advantage of a political unstable setting.

The dichotomy between Guizhou province and other areas that have a large muslim population can be explained by the presence of support system, and the presence of terrorist organizations that use very tactical public relations campaign to raise the support of the troubled , economically hit population by joining in jihad; promising financial support for their families and of course the use of religious text (which is already taken out of context-- in this case).

 

[Armstrong]

OP you may accidentally be propagating the false generalization that your average Islamic person = Wahhabi fundamentalist, or one of the many groups that have hijacked Islam's name.

I live in an area with about 4x the national average of Muslim residents, and it is one of the safest areas of the country.

Some of the general Islamic world has reasons to not be in love with America's foreign policy regarding Israel and Iran, but that does not mean they do not or could not co-exist with everyone else here.

Brother leaving aside our Foreign Policy differences no Muslim who has ever bothered to open the Koran can ever justify violence against Innocent Civilians & so Osama Bin Ladin is to Islam what Hitler was to Catholicism & German Ethnicity !

A fun fact for you : A survey was carried out in 2013 titled 'The Birthplace of the Arab Spring : Values & Perceptions of the Tunisian Public in a comparative perspective (December 15, 2013)' and one of the questions asked was :

- Approval of attacks on US civilians working for US companies in Islamic countries ! (page 90)

Less than 1% of Pakistanis 'somewhat' approved that & we're pretty pissssed at the US right now !

The point I'm trying to make is that Islam & Muslims do not condone violence...they never will !

 

[Falcon29]

The point I'm trying to make is that Islam & Muslims do not condone violence...they never will !

What do you mean by condoning violence? There are many examples of violence in this world. You can't be broad.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

@LeveragedBuyout opined:

I'm afraid it's reached the same conclusions--little correlation between poverty / low education and terrorism.


@Nihonjin1051 's response:




The paper written by Benmelech, Berrebi, and Klor (2010) was a rather didactic piece of work that tried to analyze the link between economic conditions and quality of suicide terrorism. While there are some analysis that counters the positive correlation between economic depravity with terrorism, there has been an indirect relationship. The premise of the paper was to study the intensive rather than the extensive margin of terrorism, and thus posited to study the quality of terrorism and its relation to the underlying economic condition. There was a notion that economic conditions are potentially correlated with the quality of terrorism. Benmelech et al (2010) stated that through systematic analysis uncovered correlation between economic conditions and the characteristics of suicide terrorists and targets that they choose. Benmelech et al (2010) expound on the fact that bad economic conditions affect groups that provide excludable public goods by increasing their ability to commit terror attacks during instances of economic recession or economic hardships. This paper effectively helps to identify the basis of social cleavage theory and its correlation to economic hardships and the quality of terror. In effect, the more economically adversed a society is, the more quality suicide terrorists are recruited , and thus affects the dependent variable. Through meta-analysis, there is a definite link between economic situations, which directly influences the quality of terror, in the fact that the more economically dire the situation, the higher the quality of suicide attacks.


Reference:

Benmelech, Efraim., Berrebi, Claude., Klor, Esteban. (2010). Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism. Retrieved from: Economic Conditions and the Quality of Suicide Terrorism

I don't understand what you're trying to imply here, can you please connect your excerpt with an argument? I have shown, and this paper agrees, that poverty and low education does not increase terrorism. The paper points out that poverty provides a larger pool of educated candidates to choose from, and so they are able to execute higher-quality attacks, but the frequency of attacks is not affected by poverty.

And? What is the connection to our topic?

You don't understand the relevance yet intentionally cited an Israeli study. It is absolutely relevant. What you've been implying in this whole thread is nonsense.

I didn't cite the study because it was Israeli. I cited it because it was published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, which is an unimpeachable source. If you have a better study by an equivalent source, let's see it.

 

[Falcon29]

I don't understand what you're trying to imply here, can you please connect your excerpt with an argument? I have shown, and this paper agrees, that poverty and low education does not increase terrorism. The paper points out that poverty provides a larger pool of educated candidates to choose from, and so they are able to execute higher-quality attacks, but the frequency of attacks is not affected by poverty.

And? What is the connection to our topic?

What are you trying to imply?