Can India & Pakistan come out of the spiral of mutual destruction ?

[Joe Shearer]

We can't just let a Hindu-Muslim civil war take place.

This event would worsen Hindu Muslim relations.

Then we should attach the highest importance to the rule of law, to the supremacy of the constitution, and to the curbing of any brute majority by the strong barrier of the constitution.

The divide of India was based on religion and now many fold intense than before since the BJP government.

That is wrong.

It was based on the demand of one party to the matter to see a division on religion; another party never agreed to it as a basis; it agreed to partition, since that was sought, but never to that principle, and that principle was never part of the constitution it set out for itself.

Just because today someone has come to power who had no role, actually a negative role, in the freedom struggle, and wants to violate that constitution that we made for ourselves does not permit that principle to be applied retrospectively to the basis of partition.

 

[Akshay89]

Then we should attach the highest importance to the rule of law, to the supremacy of the constitution, and to the curbing of any brute majority by the strong barrier of the constitution

The likes of you and me already do that.

But we need to take the fascists out of power. How we do that?

 

[SIPRA]

We can't just let a Hindu-Muslim civil war take place.
This event would worsen Hindu Muslim relations.

Of course, not.

If you gathered from my post that it is my desire or wish, that is not at all the case.

I was objectively describing the historical process.

The problem is that we, the human beings, inspite of colossal intellectual and material progress, have yet failed to devise mechanisms and methods, to resolve communal and geopolitical disputes, by peaceful and amicable means, based upon justice and fair play, without the use of violence and coercion (economic, diplomatic). Everywhere, these two methods are being applied nakedly, even by those nations, which are far more advanced and developed than us, South Asians.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The likes of you and me already do that.

But we need to take the fascists out of power. How we do that?

No shortcuts are possible. We have to work on multiple fronts.

First, the core constituencies. The hordes of Ram Bhakts in the UP, and other states have to be brought back to recognise that their material fate is in grave danger. They have to be reminded, not by you and me, but by the conventional local political parties, that jobs should be priority no. 1, not nonsensical gestures.

Second, the other, non-core constituencies, who just voted to throw out the rascals in power, must be reminded to vote out the successor rascals.

Third, we must personally address the so-called middle classes and point out fallacies in their understanding of the current political situation.

Fourth, our friends abroad must be asked to continue support.

Obviously, there is a huge amount to be done. These are a few, just four steps, that we can start working on, if we aren't doing that already.

 

[Akshay89]

No shortcuts are possible. We have to work on multiple fronts.

First, the core constituencies. The hordes of Ram Bhakts in the UP, and other states have to be brought back to recognise that their material fate is in grave danger. They have to be reminded, not by you and me, but by the conventional local political parties, that jobs should be priority no. 1, not nonsensical gestures.

Second, the other, non-core constituencies, who just voted to throw out the rascals in power, must be reminded to vote out the successor rascals.

Third, we must personally address the so-called middle classes and point out fallacies in their understanding of the current political situation.

Fourth, our friends abroad must be asked to continue support.

This sounds impossible. There is mass formation psychosis among Modi bhakts.

I saw a video of young man saying that he will vote for BJP even if it causes him to starve to death.

Modi used 'developmemt' agenda to win 2014 elections. After coming into power, he destroyed the economy. Yet his supporters worship him.

Of course, not.

If you gathered from my post that it is my desire or wish, that is not at all the case.

I was objectively describing the historical process.

The problem is that we, the human beings, inspite of colossal intellectual and material progress, have yet failed to devise mechanisms and methods, to resolve communal and geopolitical disputes, by peaceful and amicable means, based upon justice and fair play, without the use of violence and coercion (economic, diplomatic). Everywhere, these two methods are being applied nakedly, even by those nations, which are far more advanced and developed than us, South Asians.

I get what you are saying. But how can we just give up when the stakes are so high.

RSS/BJP cannot delay unveiling a 'Hindu Rashtra' any further.

We are on the brink of a catastrophe.


I can sense that my country or whatever is left of it will never be the same again.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This sounds impossible. There is mass formation psychosis among Modi bhakts.

I saw a video of young man saying that he will vote for BJP even if it causes him to starve to death.

Modi used 'developmemt' agenda to win 2014 elections. After coming into power, he destroyed the economy. Yet his supporters worship him.

There will inevitably be a hard core. We have to work with them and with their outer core,. We have to isolate the the hard core and work with whoever is available.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Ae ki cheez honda?


S H I T !

Nabbed.


And that is why I spend such a lot of effort in a two-front battle; convincing Pakistani friends that what they see when they look at us is an artificial construct, refurbished every night, and put up fresh and bright every morning by professional haters; convincing Indian friends NOT to fall for this artificial construct.

Just throwing it out there, when I first joined even before I DID NOT like you at all. Even got into arguments over the above-mentioned issues here. Now you are one of the few I look forward to hearing even though I strongly disagree with your views regarding certain issues plaguing us. I still hate and envy your command over the language and patience.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just throwing it out there, when I first joined even before I DID NOT like you at all. Even got into arguments over the above-mentioned issues here. Now you are one of the few I look forward to hearing even though I strongly disagree with your views regarding certain issues plaguing us. I still hate and envy your command over the language and patience.

So @Akshay89 why wouldn't reasoning and logic, and visible commitment to a worthwhile cause, fail with an Indian, if it works with our near neighbours? They may continue to disagree, but let us try to make them listen.

I strongly disagree with your views regarding certain issues plaguing us.

That's what democracy and democratic functioning is about. Ask my best enemy, @M. Sarmad. We don't agree at all, but do I listen to him? You bet your sweet batootie I do.

 

[waz]

It can if the sanghis leave power.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I still hate and envy your command over the language

Hah! You're lucky you didn't have to argue against my Mum, or write a paper in some place my Dad had written. A long time ago, I decided I wasn't competing with them. My Mum used to score 850/900+ in Scrabble, and I would be floundering along in her wake with some miserable 650 or so.
My Dad was the only person not a professional historian with an international reputation to be invited to contribute to the Festschrift of the great Susobhan Sarkar (the father of Professor Sumit Sarkar and a legend in the discipline).

It can if the sanghis leave power.

We HAVE to try. We cannot not try.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It can if the sanghis leave power.

In all seriousness, I want the sanghis to remain in power in india for at least another 25 years. Hopefully over 30 years.

 

[SIPRA]

It can if the sanghis leave power.

Sir Jee: Those were not "Sanghis", who attacked Kashmir on October 27, 1947. The attack was ordered by a so-called secular and progressive leader Nehru, in connivance with another so-called liberal Mountbatten. We shall come out of this well-propagated myth that INC is any different than BJP, as far as Pakistan is concerned.

It was INC, under the leadership of Nehru and Patel; who laid the foundations of enmity between India and Pakistan, and not some Savarkar or Golwalkar.

 

[waz]

Sir Jee: Those were not "Sanghis", who attacked Kashmir on October 27, 1947. The attack was ordered by a so-called secular and progressive leader Nehru, in connivance with another so-called liberal Mountbatten. We shall come out of this well-propagated myth that INC is any different than BJP, as far as Pakistan is concerned.

It was INC, under the leadership of Nehru and Patel; who laid the foundations of enmity between India and Pakistan, and not some Savarkar or Golwalkar.

I means that’s true but at least we could make headway with Congress and they had article 370. Anyway much has already been said, I don’t see much happening.

 

[SIPRA]

I means that’s true but at least we could make headway with Congress and they had article 370. Anyway much has already been said, I don’t see much happening.

We must come out of this delusion that INC is better than this BJP, as far as Pakistan is concerned. By saying it, in fact, we degrade the vision of our own Quaid. He was not primarily confronting RSS or Maha Sabha. His principal fight was against INC, whom he clearly and unambiguously deemed as an organization, whose sole aim is to install a "Hindu Raj" on India and subjugate and enslave Muslims, as second class citizens. He said this thing, perhaps, thousands of times.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Paa ji,
I don't know if you have seen the Youtube videos of Charsi bhai, wherein he promotes his tikkas as having aphrodisiac qualities by constantly referring to them as "mardana khuraak". And when he says that, he has a slight expression of sensual satisfaction on his face, just a subtle one, not overdone. It is very entertaining. He can be an actor.

He promotes it more like a super Viagra and final solution to erectile dysfunction than a genuine food item

I have not seen the video; but I had had the occasion to eat his "Dumba Karhahi", in Peshawar, about 20 years back. It was excellent. Incidentally, it is the same locality, where ancestral houses of both Raj Kapoor and Dilip Kumar are located.