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Can Chinese System be the Ultimate Solution Against Radical Islam?

Islam takes the lead in every matter and also matters of state and it would take lead everywhere sooner or later weather in Indonesia or Turkey. Islam dominates all matters it would be culture which would have come under Islamic guidelines and also state.

Islam as guidelines is true, but the interpretation is vary between people and Nation, our Nation Leader and Ulama stated our Country with the differentiate affair between State and Religion is a must to ensure the safety of our country as long as the implementation of Law and Principe of State is in line with Al-Quran and Hadist spirit.
 
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Islam as guidelines is true, but the interpretation is vary between people and Nation, our Nation Leader and Ulama stated our Country with the differentiate affair between State and Religion is a must to ensure the safety of our country as long as the implementation of Law and Principe of State is in line with Al-Quran and Hadist spirit.
Sorry their is no difference of interpretation here. Islam is never separate from state. You really need to study Islam. If so called Ulemas are interpreting this way or trying to do it it than either they are ignorant or blatantly lying. ALLAH has clearly said in the Quran those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs.
 
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Buddhists, Taoists, Christians, Muslims, Catholics held a sports meet in China.

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Sorry their is no difference of interpretation here. Islam is never separate from state. You really need to study Islam. If so called Ulemas are interpreting this way or trying to do it it than either they are ignorant or blatantly lying. ALLAH has clearly said in the Quran those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs.

you can't judge someone is kafir based on your own interpretation, what you thing is a good version of Islam doesn't mean that's the perfect Islam. What you did it's what we called bid'a

It's Allah who can judge someone is kafir or not, someone is infidel or not

People like you who made everything seems complicated, although the reality is not
 
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you can't judge someone is kafir based on your own interpretation, what you thing is a good version of Islam doesn't mean that's the perfect Islam. What you did it's what we called bid'a. It's Allah who can judge someone is kafir or not, someone is infidel or not. People like you who made everything seems complicated, although the reality is not

Wise man once said, "how is the sound of chickens?"

Javanese said: kukuruyuk
Sundanese said: kongkorongok
Madurese said: kongkorongkong

So which one is right?
 
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Wise man once said, "how is the sound of chickens?"

Javanese said: kukuruyuk
Sundanese said: kongkorongok
Madurese said: kongkorongkong

So which one is right?

everyone is right
 
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Dont talk nonsense if you dont have enough knowledge abt Cnese in ASEAN.

Dont forget that Pol Pot is also Cnese-Kam and backed by Cnese-Thai during war wt VN from 1979 to 1988.

Calm down my Vietnamese buddy. Lol I know you Vietnamese hate and despise the Chinese, since you have had your fair share of historical disputes/conflicts with them to this day. However that doesn't means you should disregard obvious facts and say irrational things everybody knows is false. Always give credit when due buddy. Just like I do with Russia though I'm not a fan of Russia, but I do give them credit for any of their achievements and for being an advanced power etc.

Why do you think I will deliberately try and put down Malaysia for no good reason? It's not like I have anything against Malaysia ,since Malaysia has never done anything wrong to me/my country. So I have no reason to be unfair/belittle them . I'm merely stating facts. :)

Moreover, I do know about China and Vietnam troubled relations with pol pots Cambodia, I don't see what that has to do with the topic at hand mate. :what:
 
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everyone is right

Indeed. We all know how the sound of chicken is. Once we hear it we won't forget. But we pronounce it based on our cultural value that has been deeply rooted within our cultural identity.

As a soul, we has met our LORD and vow that HE is the only one. So we know Him, deep within our heart. Humanity is a way to appreciate HIM and knowing HIM in all HIS greatness. So appreciation and gratefulness is the way to approach differences.
 
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very wrong argumentation

Radical Islam is only flourishing if Moderate Islam is being suppressed

Radical Islam is an enemy of Moderate Islam ( I rather see Moderate Islam as real Islamist power, but the term is not well known in the western media), thats why how we see event in Tunisia in which even though ruled by Islamist but always get attacked by radicals, even they have attacked President convoy.

What is happening now is a result of Bashar regime and dictator regime in Egypt who bring back their nation into an authoritarian rule. The attack on Moderate Islam is a winning moment from radical Islam perspective since their recruitment process will be much more easier. The lost of Muslim brotherhood power in Egypt give the idea that the fight (in Arab land) can only be conducted through violence means.

The term democracy has already been exercised by Muslim since the first Caliphate (Abu Bakr) until the fourth (Ali). So democracy is not new in Islam, and even can be seen in Quran in which there is surah called as Assuyra that talk about the endorsement of political system that is based on argumentation and free of speech compared to Authoritarian ruling in deciding any thing in the Muslim society.

No need to be secular as Indonesia is not secular and the ability of Muslim to exercise its right in Indonesia is much much better in here than Turkey despite Islamist parties never won any election even though they have shape huge political gaining since even early reformation ( 1998 )

Indonesia is a good example of democratic nation in a Muslim majority country, along with Turkey and now Tunisia joining the club. I hope Pakistan keep staying in a democratic rule and be patience during the process since the fruit can only be taken in a long run, inshaAllah.
 
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We might also look at this from an geopolitical context, like you provide examples in your text. There has always been radical Islamic terrorism but it was just that, sporadic and more or less contained. The problem was manageable. I guess the Arab Spring opened the Pandora's box. Take Libya for example. Bringing down Gaddafi was a terrible idea as was voiced by many at the time. All the said terrorist groups including Bako Haram and al-Shabab turned war lords upon the spoils of Libyan Army. And the examples can be multiplied.

But, as you pointed out, there might be very local, historical root causes of the whole problem in the Middle East, and in particular, with respect to politicized Islam.

Well first we should define the difference between political Islam and radical Islam. Political Islam, as the name may suggest, represents Islamic ideologies in the political arena. Debates, political parties, youth organizations are all activities of political Islamic groups. The concept of Fiqh makes huge difference regarding the actions of those groups. Some are much more radical then others, some of them seems very radical in terms of lifestyle however might be very peaceful and even anti violence, some of them seems very contemporary in terms of lifestyle but might be very pro-violence.

Radical Islam is just a tool for political Islam. They can be regarded as "muscle". Every radical Islamic group out there has some forms of links with certain political Islamic groups. Otherwise they won't be seen as legitimate among Muslims, because political Islam is the brain. Let's analyze Al-Qaeda as an example. Al Qaeda is actually the armed group of Wahhabism and Salafism and both movements are traced back to Saudi Arabia. To finish Al-Qaeda you wouldn't need to invade Afghanistan or Iraq but you should finish Wahhabism and Salafism at it's hearth which is Saudi Arabia. But since Saudi Arabia is a petrol-dollar country I'm sure West will go on fighting minions in Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan and won't touch the brain in Saudi Arabia. Of course fighting with minions will be a never ending war. Our British friend @mike2000 is back will be paying a lot of taxes for decades for a war that will never end, because it was never intended to win. But I'm very optimistic about Russia. If the West leave the Middle East for 10 years to Russia and China bloc I guess a true and a very necessary Arab Spring could take place in Gulf countries and radical Islam would take a huge damage.

The reverse is not true. Not all political Islamic groups have links with radical Islamists. However the aims are very similar among political Islamist groups. They all want sharia law to be restored, they want a single muslim "nation" which is called Ummah, they ultimately wants a single Islamic state that governs all Muslim population and they want Caliphate to be restored and that Caliph should take Quran and Hadith as the only guidence when ruling that Islamic state.

Of course as you can see those movements has a certain history behind them. However they all modernized repeatedly and stays active. Wahhabism wouldn't be much radical in 18th century when it was first "invented". However this is definitely not acceptable today.

I am curious about your own assessment? Do you think, with now AKP having almost half of the popular support, it is possible to restore secularism in its true sense?

There are two Islamist movements in Turkey. One of them is Nurculuk (Movement of Light) and the other is Milli Görüş (National Vision). Nurculuk is currently represented by Gülen Movement, and Milli Görüş is represented by AKP. Milli Görüş movement has always been a political entity. Nurculuk never wanted to become a political entity and instead they wanted power in bureaucracy, media, education and business life. They are just like an Islamic masonic order, with all those secret meetings etc. Both movements avoided direct alliance or competition throughout 70', 80's and 90's. However starting with AKP both Islamic movements became allies. In the early periods of AKP when it was first formed, it had no power in bureaucracy or media and it didn't have much of a business contact. Gülen Movement provided all of them in the first years and played a huge rule in the success of AKP.

Taming the military and the high court as you've mentioned was also made by Gülen Movement. Arresting military officers with fake coup plans, and arresting civil opposition with an alledged support to that coup, was all planned and executed by the Gülen movement. Today the two movements are like a cat and dog. That's why the unity in both Islamic movements are shattered which is an advantage.

Besides the actual insurance of the secularism in Turkey is CHP which takes a quarter of votes with a very rigid secular political stance which is not bad. Gezi protests for democracy and Republic Protests for secularism mobilized millions of people and made me a proud Turk again :). I suspect that if any Islamist movement in Turkey tries to impose sharia law or tries to fulfill the aims that I've counted above, the conflict will evolve into a civil was pretty quick. Political Islamist groups could have more man power but secular groups would certainly get international support. Besides not all 50% of the AKP voters are Islamists. It would be anectodal but my neighbour is a civil engineer and a pretty irreligious person but he votes for AKP because he thinks the construction business is very good with AKP and he can make a lot of money. We had an intense argument with him twice and decided not to talk about politics anymore. Such voters are traditional center right voters who has nothing to do with political Islam and definitely won't support AKP if they impose sharia law. And don't underestimate their number. Scholars estimate that around one third of AKP voters are center right leaning and definitely not political Islamist.

Bottom line is secularism in Turkey won't die, but won't ressurect either in the short or middle term. It will stay in a somewhat purgatory state with the current status quo. However if the status quo is broken no one knows what happens. But everyone is sure that secularism won't really die without a civil war in Turkey.

And we are definitely on the same page about secularism vs liberal democracy dilemma in Muslim majority countries.

I've deliberately given long answers to you questions because you seem to be interested in Turkey and the Middle East.
 
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The only ultimate system for Muslims is the Sharia implemented in its truest form like the Millet system of the Ottoman Caliphate. China is a very good country, however its political system will never work in the Muslim world, although its framework is very similar if you meticulously study both of them. This problem we see today, stems from colonization, redrawing of the map by imperialists powers, secularists dictators supported by western governments and the ideology of Salafism. I would advise Chinese members not to criticize Islam as a religion and don't associate ISIS with our religion because they were created by the Americans. A person only needs to read history to understand the beautiful civilization of Islamic history which spans across nearly all continents of the world.
 
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The only ultimate system for Muslims is the Sharia implemented in its truest form like the Millet system of the Ottoman Caliphate. China is a very good country, however its political system will never work in the Muslim world, although its framework is very similar if you meticulously study both of them. This problem we see today, stems from colonization, redrawing of the map by imperialists powers, secularists dictators supported by western governments and the ideology of Salafism. I would advise Chinese members not to criticize Islam as a religion and don't associate ISIS with our religion because they were created by the Americans. A person only needs to read history to understand the beautiful civilization of Islamic history which spans across nearly all continents of the world.

Chinese believe coexistence of differences! We are not against any religion or race but we are strongly against extremism of any direction. Saudia Arabia and Qatar have sponsored spread of Wahhabist development in China since 1980s. Turkey has in recent years supported Eastern Turkishstan Movements as part of pan turkism. It is changing Chinese views about Islam, unfortunately. Let me put it this way: whoever associates himself with Uyghur separatists will be an enemy of China...:(
 
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