What's new

Can Chinese System be the Ultimate Solution Against Radical Islam?

Lure

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
547
Reaction score
17
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
Starting from the Soviet military campaign on Afghanistan there is a surge in radical and militant Islamic ideologies and groups. After more than a decade long battle between the Western powers and radical Islamist groups there is no sign of weakening on the latter side.

On contrary, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and, Western backed Arab Spring seems to create an environment that is much more desired by radical groups in the Middle East. In 1980's they were bunch of bandits that no one took serious. Today they control 60% of Syria, around 20% of US Invaded Iraq. They are active in Afghanistan and are still controlling certain cities. They are also destabilizing Pakistan. Groups like Boko Haram in Nigeria are controlling around 10% of the country and destabilizing the neighbouring countries. They have a wide network of terror cells in Europe and US. They can find human resource from anywhere around the globe by radicalizing Muslims.

They are printing their own money. They are organized like a state. They make trade with neighbouring countries by means of smuggling. They are an organization that can continue armed insurgency in two different continents (Asia and Africa) and can make terror attacks on 3 different continents (Europe, North America and Australia). I think this is an unprecedented type of rogue power that the World has ever seen in the history of mankind.

Now the prognosis is bad as it can be seen. But what about the cure. As I've mentioned before Western powers are fighting with radical Islam for more than a decade now. They had limited success, if any. Some scholars even speculate that they've made it worse by destabilizing the established governments both by invasion in Iraq case or by arming Jihadist groups in Democratic Republic of Afghanistan case, or by sponsoring and legitimizing the adventerous revoluationary forces in the case of Arab Spring with the hope that the revolutionary forces will embrace Western Democracy.

I think it's clear that Turkey is one of the most advanced form of contemporary civilization that a Muslim majority country produced so far. Also it's clear that, this level of civilization was impossible to achieve if Turkey was not a constitutionally secular country. Of course remaining secular for Turkey was not easy. Turkish state and bureaucracy was very assertive against Islamist movement. Political Islam was banned and was a huge taboo in Turkish political life. Many politicians and journalists underwent trials for spreading political Islam. Some were even sentenced and served time in jail. All of those actions against political Islam were repeatedly condemned by European Union in the name of freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You and I both know the story when Turkish state became more "democratic" and stopped being assertive against political Islam. Today Turkey is struggling a lot for trying to keep it's secular foundations. Some scholars even speculate that secularism in Turkey is somewhat too damaged to be restored again.

There is not even one successful example of liberal democracy in a Muslim majority country. After liberalization of poltical Islam with the Western values like Freedom of Speech, sooner or later Islamic parties comes to power. Iran, Egypt, Libya, Afghanistan are good examples. Turkish Islamist movement is still somewhat more moderate because of the unique composition of cultural difference and 90 years of secular past. However AKP is still a political Islamist party that should not be governing in a functioning secular democracy.

As one can easily see secularism and democracy goes hand in hand. If a country can maintain certain levels of secularism that country can become more stable and democratic. However we've repeatedly experienced that with the Western school of thought Muslim majority countries wouldn't be able to become secular or democratic. However most important secularist and reformist movements in Muslim majority countries were nurtured by leftist ideologies and authoritarian governments. Good examples are single party CHP rule in Turkey, Baathist rule in Iraq and Syria, Soviet backed Socialist rule in Afghanistan, Reza Pahlavi rule in Iran, Mobarak rule in Egypt, Gaddafi rule in Libya. Of course there were so many atrocities in those eras. However I urged you to see the atrocities of ISIS. Compared to that those governments are very legitimate and modern.

That's why I think Western political philosophers should give legitimacy to certain types of authoritarian government reflexes. We all know that authoritarianism failed heavily in Europe. However in Muslim majority countries authoritarianism opened the way for huge reforms that wouldn't have been done in any other way. In China authoritarianism also made a huge success in terms of unifying the entire population and forming an economic system that lifted hundereds of millions of people above poverty line. Authoriterian, progressive, secular and rational type of governments can be a key to saving Muslim majority countries. Turkish government in pre-AKP period was also a good model in which there were elections but the state, judicial system and bureaucracy was very assertive against political Islamist movements.

So what you guys think about that?
 
Last edited:
.
I think it's clear that Turkey is the most advanced form of contemporary civilization that a Muslim majority country produced so far.

Malaysia is more advanced than Turkey.
 
.
Malaysia is more advanced than Turkey.

Well this is off topic but 60% of Malaysian population are Muslim whereas 99% of Turkish population comes from Muslim backgrund families.

Malaysian GDP per capita is higher than Turkey however Malaysia is a Petroleum exporting country. Petronas creates more than 100 billion dollars of economic activity per year.

However Malaysia is a pretty advanced country. If you would feel more comfortable I can edit Turkey as "one of the most advanced" countries. However since Muslim population is not an absolute majority but a simple majority in Malaysia our comparison would be futile in the intended context.
 
.
printing their own money not true man. that is they ultimate sin, the real rulers of this world never allow.
 
.
.
Your article strike on the root of Turkey's problem but a lot of extremist or too nationalisticTurkish members will not admit this problem. Trust me , Turkey decades of success will go downhill if extremist and nationalism blind their vision.

But Erdogan rule Turkey more like an authoritarian. He is the wrong person to lead Turkey into the future.
 
Last edited:
.


its bull sh it but if it true that make nwo scared.

i believe solve these problem is good education and honest law and order social security protection and job creation, just bring industries and factories put the people to work. religion must be taught honestly and imams must be selected carefully. but much more difficult than that Muslims will get easily upset easily by seeing other Muslims country invaded and this is the spark. maybe censorship state media. then there is issue with usury and paper money imf world bank that is the real reason Muslims are targeted. Muslims know its about the fraudulent banking system.
 
.
Your article strike on the root of Turkey's problem but a lot of extremist or too nationalisticTurkish members will not admit this problem. Trust me , Turkey decades of success will go downhill if extremist and nationalism blind their vision.

But Erdogan rule Turkey more like an authoritarian. He is the wrong person to lead Turkey into the future.

Yeah that's true. But being authoritarian is not a desired property by itself. AKP is neither secular, nor enlightened. They are just authoritarian. That's why we shouldn't critisize AKP for being authoritarian, but instead for not being secular, progressive or enlightened.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not categorically against all types of authoritarian rules. A democratically elected party coming to power in a liberal democracy can also cause huge problems. On contrary a non-elected authoritarian party like CPC can restore a civilization from it's ashes. That's why elections and liberalizm are not magical instruments that can make a civilization great.

Ultimately it's how the nation is governed that makes it great.
 
.
Your article strike on the root of Turkey's problem but a lot of extremist or too nationalisticTurkish members will not admit this problem. Trust me , Turkey decades of success will go downhill if extremist and nationalism blind their vision.

But Erdogan rule Turkey more like an authoritarian. He is the wrong person to lead Turkey into the future.

For once I can fully agree with a Chinese.
 
.
Yeah that's true. But being authoritarian is not a desired property by itself. AKP is neither secular, nor enlightened. They are just authoritarian. That's why we shouldn't critisize AKP for being authoritarian, but instead for not being secular, progressive or enlightened.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not categorically against all types of authoritarian rules. A democratically elected party coming to power in a liberal democracy can also cause huge problems. On contrary a non-elected authoritarian party like CPC can restore a civilization from it's ashes. That's why elections and liberalizm are not magical instruments that can make a civilization great.

Ultimately it's how the nation is governed that makes it great.

the key question is acceptance of democracy as an idea. the CPC accepts the idea of democracy.
 
.
The most powerful weapon against radicals like the ISIS is media control. This may sound cruel but, think about it, what if there is no media report at all for any of the random killings by the Jihadists? No matter how many people they killed or how big a destruction they created, no one will hear about it. Do this for 30 to 50 years let's see what happens. I bet those lunatics will stop blowing up themselves. The reason is they want to get into people's head. They want to cause huge media sensation. But we refuse to give them the attention they wanted, they will lose the very incentive of doing those stupid things.

Then again, is it possible to mute the media completely? In the west or any of the self perceived "free" country, it is impossible. In China, well, I give it a 10~20% chance ;)
 
.
Starting from the Soviet military campaign on Afghanistan there is a surge in radical and militant Islamic ideologies and groups. After more than a decade long battle between the Western powers and radical Islamist groups there is no sign of weakening on the latter side.

On contrary, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and, Western backed Arab Spring seems to create an environment that is much more desired by radical groups in the Middle East. In 1980's they were bunch of bandits that no one took serious. Today they control 60% of Syria, around 20% of US Invaded Iraq. They are active in Afghanistan and are still controlling certain cities. They are also destabilizing Pakistan. Groups like Boko Haram in Nigeria are controlling around 10% of the country and destabilizing the neighbouring countries. They have a wide network of terror cells in Europe and US. They can find human resource from anywhere around the globe by radicalizing Muslims.

They are printing their own money. They are organized like a state. They make trade with neighbouring countries by means of smuggling. They are an organization that can continue armed insurgency in two different continents (Asia and Africa) and can make terror attacks on 3 different continents (Europe, North America and Australia). I think this is an unprecedented type of rogue power that the World has ever seen in the history of mankind.

Now the prognosis is bad as it can be seen. But what about the cure. As I've mentioned before Western powers are fighting with radical Islam for more than a decade now. They had limited success, if any. Some scholars even speculate that they've made it worse by destabilizing the established governments both by invasion in Iraq case or by arming Jihadist groups in Democratic Republic of Afghanistan case, or by sponsoring and legitimizing the adventerous revoluationary forces in the case of Arab Spring with the hope that the revolutionary forces will embrace Western Democracy.

I think it's clear that Turkey is one of the most advanced form of contemporary civilization that a Muslim majority country produced so far. Also it's clear that, this level of civilization was impossible to achieve if Turkey was not a constitutionally secular country. Of course remaining secular for Turkey was not easy. Turkish state and bureaucracy was very assertive against Islamist movement. Political Islam was banned and was a huge taboo in Turkish political life. Many politicians and journalists underwent trials for spreading political Islam. Some were even sentenced and served time in jail. All of those actions against political Islam were repeatedly condemned by European Union in the name of freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You and I both know the story when Turkish state became more "democratic" and stopped being assertive against political Islam. Today Turkey is struggling a lot for trying to keep it's secular foundations. Some scholars even speculate that secularism in Turkey is somewhat too damaged to be restored again.

There is not even one successful example of liberal democracy in a Muslim majority country. After liberalization of poltical Islam with the Western values like Freedom of Speech, sooner or later Islamic parties comes to power. Iran, Egypt, Libya, Afghanistan are good examples. Turkish Islamist movement is still somewhat more moderate because of the unique composition of cultural difference and 90 years of secular past. However AKP is still a political Islamist party that should not be governing in a functioning secular democracy.

As one can easily see secularism and democracy goes hand in hand. If a country can maintain certain levels of secularism that country can become more stable and democratic. However we've repeatedly experienced that with the Western school of thought Muslim majority countries wouldn't be able to become secular or democratic. However most important secularist and reformist movements in Muslim majority countries were nurtured by leftist ideologies and authoritarian governments. Good examples are single party CHP rule in Turkey, Baathist rule in Iraq and Syria, Soviet backed Socialist rule in Afghanistan, Reza Pahlavi rule in Iran, Mobarak rule in Egypt, Gaddafi rule in Libya. Of course there were so many atrocities in those eras. However I urged you to see the atrocities of ISIS. Compared to that those governments are very legitimate and modern.

That's why I think Western political philosophers should give legitimacy to certain types of authoritarian government reflexes. We all know that authoritarianism failed heavily in Europe. However in Muslim majority countries authoritarianism opened the way for huge reforms that wouldn't have been done in any other way. In China authoritarianism also made a huge success in terms of unifying the entire population and forming an economic system that lifted hundereds of millions of people above poverty line. Authoriterian, progressive, secular and rational type of governments can be a key to saving Muslim majority countries. Turkish government in pre-AKP period was also a good model in which there were elections but the state, judicial system and bureaucracy was very assertive against political Islamist movements.

So what you guys think about that?
Today China can't slove the problem, if it work there's no knife-attack in China XinJiang ... but i believe Mao's China can solve the problem, in that time no terrorism in China XinJiang & no cultural & fund exchange with Middle-East, those radical islam ideology can't live in China coz Mao was the only 'GOD' in XinJiang. So media + culture control is the only way to against radical islam ideology, Mao & CCP ever succeed in XinJiang but failed coz CCP successors opened ideology & loose media control, then terrorism & radical islam coming to China XinJiang from foreign nation, those stupid CCP members invited foreign ideology into XinJiang and control uygur belief ... so the situation began to changed. I just hope Xi can correct the fault in XinJiang during his ten years as the CCP leader, Mao's policy in XinJiang for him is good to learn.
 
Last edited:
. .
That's exactly what I'm after. We're on the same page here. Thanks for the contribution.
Well i mentioned the foreign influence in XinJiang after CCP opened ideology since 1980s~1990s ... @Lure, Pls talk ur idea about the general Turkey ppl thinking of Uygurs in China XinJiang , another 'Turkish relatives' ?
 
.
Well this is off topic but 60% of Malaysian population are Muslim whereas 99% of Turkish population comes from Muslim backgrund families.

Malaysian GDP per capita is higher than Turkey however Malaysia is a Petroleum exporting country. Petronas creates more than 100 billion dollars of economic activity per year.

However Malaysia is a pretty advanced country. If you would feel more comfortable I can edit Turkey as "one of the most advanced" countries. However since Muslim population is not an absolute majority but a simple majority in Malaysia our comparison would be futile in the intended context.

Turkey is by far the most advanced Muslim dominant country on earth. Malaysia is just a wannabe , without the ethnic Chinese and natural resources , Malaysia won't be any better than Lebanon . Lol :lol:
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom