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They (Cambodians) are a shrimp among two whales (Vietnam, Thailand) and thus they have to court any power that can offset the power influence in their region. China has been an ally of theirs even during the Khmer Rouge era under Pot Pot.

Your comment remind me some notorious shrimp

yes around Indonesia and Malaysia we had the most poisonous shrimp in the world, Singapore LOL. such a tiny state but they had more modern weapons than any country in Sub Saharan Africa.
 
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Your comment remind me some notorious shrimp

yes around Indonesia and Malaysia we had the most poisonous shrimp in the world, Singapore LOL. such a tiny state but they had more modern weapons than any country in Sub Saharan Africa.

Ha ha ha, it brings a new meaning to "Napoleon Syndrome' eh? Short (small) but terrible. :lol:
 
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Your comment remind me some notorious shrimp

yes around Indonesia and Malaysia we had the most poisonous shrimp in the world, Singapore LOL. such a tiny state but they had more modern weapons than any country in Sub Saharan Africa.

Ha Ha, no kidding, they just doubled their quantity of F-15's, they are waiting for the F-35 and they just ordered 2 more subs from Germany (type 218).

And nobody even think about messing with Sing or they'll have the US 7th fleet on them in no time.

Why is Indonesia so worked up about Singapore? I understand the issues between Sing and Malaysia, but why Indonesia?

the total cost around 360 million US dollar, yes that's including the missile system (VL MICA and Exocet Block III)

The missiles are a total of 76 million, so the ship without weapons is almost 300 million, wow, that's still expensive in my opinion.

8 Exocet @ 5 million each = 40 million
12 Mica's @ 3 million = 36 million
Total = 76 million
 
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Ha Ha, no kidding, they just doubled their quantity of F-15's, they are waiting for the F-35 and they just ordered 2 more subs from Germany (type 218).

And nobody even think about messing with Sing or they'll have the US 7th fleet on them in no time.

Why is Indonesia so worked up about Singapore? I understand the issues between Sing and Malaysia, but why Indonesia?



The missiles are a total of 76 million, so the ship without weapons is almost 300 million, wow, that's still expensive in my opinion.

8 Exocet @ 5 million each = 40 million
12 Mica's @ 3 million = 36 million
Total = 76 million

We are using Singapore as our benchmark for our military modernization and with Australia too, nothing else. That's why, right now we always keeping an eye about them and the other eye for Australia. Indonesia, Australia and Singapore regardless of their political rants and little issues, is always keeping their military relationship staying close and cohesive enough to do some joint military operations especially after Timor Leste debacle. Even Singapore has doing some proposal to made use of Indonesian soil as their base (with rents surely) and conduct their exercise together with Indonesian armed forces to increasing the joint interoperability between TNI and Singapore Armed Forces. They will not proposing something like that unless they believing Indonesia is friendly enough to them.




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don't forget about ECM, CIWS like millenium gun, and other stuff.

and we bought the license too, for further 20 units and that's what made the initial procurement cost is high. But we are not like Malaysia with their bling-bling stuff, we are rational enough to bought what we deemed is necessary and practical.
 
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The missiles are a total of 76 million, so the ship without weapons is almost 300 million, wow, that's still expensive in my opinion.

8 Exocet @ 5 million each = 40 million
12 Mica's @ 3 million = 36 million
Total = 76 million

Definitely quite expensive , and a great asset to both the Indonesian and Vietnamese Navies. :)
 
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We are using Singapore as our benchmark for our military modernization and with Australia too, nothing else. That's why, right now we always keeping an eye about them and the other eye for Australia. Indonesia, Australia and Singapore regardless of their political rants and little issues, is always keeping their military relationship staying close and cohesive enough to do some joint military operations especially after Timor Leste debacle. Even Singapore has doing some proposal to made use of Indonesian soil as their base (with rents surely) and conduct their exercise together with Indonesian armed forces to increasing the joint interoperability between TNI and Singapore Armed Forces. They will not proposing something like that unless they believing Indonesia is friendly enough to them.




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don't forget about ECM, CIWS like millenium gun, and other stuff.

and we bought the license too, for further 20 units and that's what made the initial procurement cost is high. But we are not like Malaysia with their bling-bling stuff, we are rational enough to bought what we deemed is necessary and practical.

The Sigmas for Vietnam don't have the Millenium CIWS, they use the much simpler MARLIN-WS (not clear if it is 25 or 30 mm).

The price would be ok if VN bought a license and there were a lot of rumors that another 2 would be built in VN later, but not a word was said about that in the contract. Damen only said that they were hoping for more orders.

The Vietnamese Gepards are only $150 million each.

How much did Indonesia pay for a license of 20 ships?

We are using Singapore as our benchmark for our military modernization and with Australia too, nothing else. That's why, right now we always keeping an eye about them and the other eye for Australia. Indonesia, Australia and Singapore regardless of their political rants and little issues, is always keeping their military relationship staying close and cohesive enough to do some joint military operations especially after Timor Leste debacle. Even Singapore has doing some proposal to made use of Indonesian soil as their base (with rents surely) and conduct their exercise together with Indonesian armed forces to increasing the joint interoperability between TNI and Singapore Armed Forces. They will not proposing something like that unless they believing Indonesia is friendly enough to them.




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don't forget about ECM, CIWS like millenium gun, and other stuff.

and we bought the license too, for further 20 units and that's what made the initial procurement cost is high. But we are not like Malaysia with their bling-bling stuff, we are rational enough to bought what we deemed is necessary and practical.

Using Sing and Australia as a benchmark is definitely a high benchmark, they buy the best, the Formidable class frigate of Sing is the best frigate in SE Asia and the Hobart class destroyers (Spanish AEGIS destroyer) and Camberra class carriers of Australia (Spanish carrier class) and now the 10 Soryu subs that they will buy from Japan puts them on top for now.
 
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The Sigmas for Vietnam don't have the Millenium CIWS, they use the much simpler MARLIN-WS (not clear if it is 25 or 30 mm).

The price would be ok if VN bought a license and there were a lot of rumors that another 2 would be built in VN later, but not a word was said about that in the contract. Damen only said that they were hoping for more orders.

The Vietnamese Gepards are only $150 million each.

How much did Indonesia pay for a license of 20 ships?



Using Sing and Australia as a benchmark is definitely a high benchmark, they buy the best, the Formidable class frigate of Sing is the best frigate in SE Asia and the Hobart class destroyers (Spanish AEGIS destroyer) and Camberra class carriers of Australia (Spanish carrier class) and now the 10 Soryu subs that they will buy from Japan puts them on top for now.

Gepards cost only 150 mill? including sensors and weapons?
 
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Most feared and brutal comando forces in Cambodia - Brigade 911 para commando trained by Kopassus Indonesia. Using same baret and blood camo for their elite instructor.

tni-35.jpg

Kopassus

As seen in this video

Brigade 911 training facility in cambodia training new trainee

In Indonesia 1991

graduation

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Brigade 911 Had Brutal History...
cambodiadaily.com/opinion/brigade-911-had-brutal-history-before-garment-factory-strike-50386/

July 1997 was a month of corpses, enough to make many of us numb. The coup was opposed by senior CPP figures, so it was an a la carte affair in which Mr. Hun Sen used willing elements of the army, the police, and the gendarmerie.
One of the willing soldiers was Chap Pheakdei, the commander of the Indonesian-trained parachute Brigade 911, ...
 
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Gepards cost only 150 mill? including sensors and weapons?

Yes, but I'm not sure if the onboard missile stock is included, everything else yes, but anyway, the 8 anti ship missiles are just 14.4 million. Actually, its probably included, but I'm not sure.
 
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Vietnam never feel regret to save Cambodian people as human being to each other.
Look at below pictures and film. That's true emotion from both. During 1989.

Some other Cambodian who left their country for France during Khmer Rouge rule, never know how we love each other, Cambodian villagers and lower class who unable to escape to Europe.


View attachment 159567 View attachment 159569 View attachment 159570

Like sons and mother.
View attachment 159571 View attachment 159573

Nowaday cooperation between Vietnam special force and Cambodia paratrooper force.
View attachment 159574

This is tale of China, Vietnam, USA and Cambodia. For someone who want to have a brief.
In the Story: Cambodia stand for Khmer Rouge, Vietnam stand for VPA.

There were 4 families in a suburb call “the World”: America - the richest and most powerful, China –the second richest and powerful, Vietnam - a poor but brave family living in a house just in front of China’s, Cambodia - a poor family who live in the right of Vietnam’s house.

Not long ago, America intruded into Vietnam’s garden and beat his wife and son badly for some unclear reasons, Vietnam stood up and chased America out of his garden, although he got several injures.

During that time, Cambodia told China about his will to erase his current family to free himself for a new marriage and got China support. China gave him money to buy gun and promise to keep quiet.

While Vietnam was putting bandage on his wife’s and his own wounds from the fight with America, Cambodia quietly came over to Vietnam’s garden and stabbed Vietnam’s son who was playing there. Hearing his son’s scream desperately, Vietnam rushed out to see his son in a blood pond. He could only have enough time calling his wife to take care of the poor boy and ran followed Cambodia.

Cambodia ran back home and locked his wife and daughter in a room, shoot one of his son in his head, beat the other son till dead, and kept hitting his wife and toddle who were tied to a chair. Vietnam was in front of Cambodia’s house knocking on the door to ask Cambodia out to talk; in reply he could only hear Cambodia’s wife and little toddle scream in dismay.

The whole neighbourhood heard the scream. China turned his music loud pretending he could not hear anything. People from other nearby houses peered their heads out of their windows asking what’s happening? America knew Cambodia’s wife and children were in danger but because all of his hatred to Vietnam he just hoped Cambodia would kill Vietnam too. So America shouted to everybody to get back to their houses, nothing wrong.

At this state, Vietnam decided to break into Cambodia’s window, ran through the kitchen, up to the bedroom where Cambodia’s stabling nonstop his wife. He broke in the room, fought Cambodia to the floor, got shot in his leg but managed to tie Cambodia’s hands.

China saw it all, he ran out in front of Cambodia’s house and shouted to all neighbours, “Vietnam intruded Cambodia, I’ll teach him a lesson”. And there he ran to Vietnam’s house with his son holding the sharpest knives that they have; they broke the door and immediately stabbed Vietnam’s injured wife and son. Vietnam’s wife bravely fought back, got many wound but managed to badly injure China. Vietnam’s wife let China and his son to withdraw and she hurried back to her son who was bleeding on the floor. On the way out, China and his son destroyed the whole Vietnam’s kitchen.

In front of Cambodia’s house, all neighbours were drawn by America and China and were shouting at Vietnam who was inside, condemned his action as an intruder and asking him out to give his hand up. Nobody care to Vietnam’s wife and son who were begging for help just nearby. Vietnam untied Cambodia’s wife and toddle, gave them a knife to protect themselves, and then decided to go back home to take his wife and son to hospital. When Vietnam’s gone, all neighbours got in and called police to catch the already tied Cambodia. On the way Vietnam drove his car to hospital, people yelled at him for his intrusion into Cambodia’s house.

Sometime later, Cambodia’s wife and toddle recovered, and now lived in the house with no man. China is tempted by Cambodia’s wife, they have kept flirting recently. To bribe Cambodia’s daughter, China have bought a lot of sweet for her. This naïve little girl enjoys the sweet so much that now she likes China more than anyone else. And as her memory about what happened faded away, she even starts learning Vietnam hatred from China.

At Cambodia’s tribunal, he was the only one who faced the verdict, the one who gave him support was not named. America and other neighbours got medals for their courage acts. Vietnam’s name was never mentioned. However, in some of their accusation, Cambodia’s wife and daughter blame Vietnam for intruding into their house and ask for his compensation for their broken windows and doors. When being asked about “gratitude”, they answer “We could have been able to free ourselves without Vietnam’s intervention”
Saving cambodia from the abyss, genocide was a good move but one of our major strategic mistakes. the world did not thank us but punishing us with war (China, Thailand) and economics sanction by America, Japan, ASEAN and many others. Should they run amok and kill themselves and others again, we should not intervene. Never! the world is a jungle. our army should send in paratroopers and save our people.

Let the killers do their work. The world does not care, why should we?
 
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Yes, but I'm not sure if the onboard missile stock is included, everything else yes, but anyway, the 8 anti ship missiles are just 14.4 million. Actually, its probably included, but I'm not sure.
Gepards cost only 150 mill? including sensors and weapons?
Contract for two ship is $350m, so each cost $175m, maybe not include SSM and SHORAD missiles, ( I remember there's info about separate deal for those missiles )
 
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Contract for two ship is $350m, so each cost $175m, maybe not include SSM and SHORAD missiles, ( I remember there's info about separate deal for those missiles )

Not a bad deal at all. Two ships for only $350 milliion? Pretty good price.
 
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Contract for two ship is $350m, so each cost $175m, maybe not include SSM and SHORAD missiles, ( I remember there's info about separate deal for those missiles )

Ah, ok, that makes it clear then, so its 175 + 15 for KH-35 missiles (the Sosna-R for the Palma are very cheap), that's a total of 190 million, still almost a 100 million less than the Sigma, interesting.
 
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They (Cambodians) are a shrimp among two whales (Vietnam, Thailand) and thus they have to court any power that can offset the power influence in their region. China has been an ally of theirs even during the Khmer Rouge era under Pot Pot.

Thanks to culture revolution adopted from China, Cambodia during Polpot era killed all of intellectual elites.

Angkar !!! CPC !!!
 
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Yes, but I'm not sure if the onboard missile stock is included, everything else yes, but anyway, the 8 anti ship missiles are just 14.4 million. Actually, its probably included, but I'm not sure.
Contract for two ship is $350m, so each cost $175m, maybe not include SSM and SHORAD missiles, ( I remember there's info about separate deal for those missiles )

pretty much our new frigate will have the same capability from the gepards but with western sensors and weapons. the budget is almost the same.
 
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