Cairo Arab-Israel war museum.(free trip)

[FaujHistorian]

....they [Islamists] will do what their grand fathers did earlier otherwise the outcome will be same AND IT GOEST FOR ALL OF US LIKE IT OR NOT might be some individual achievements here and there but the real one won't come until we [Islamists] goto our roots.

TARIQ

What grandfathers are you talking about.

Don't you know that grandfathers of modern day Pakistanis were serving British
Grandfathers of modern day Saudis were herding sheep and sleeping on the sand heaps.

The area now called Saudi Arabia has not produced world level leadership in politics and Science for the last 1000 years. No invention and no development has come out of that HOLE-y place.

You go to Saudi and the only things older than 50 years are the Harmain Sharifain. No art, no science, no innovation was performed in that intellectually dead region.

Same is true for Syrians, Jordanians, Libyans, Yemenis, and Iraqis.

Same is true for Egyptians unless you want to prove that Pharaohs were Islamists too.

I urge you to go easy on the grandfather business. Those are all stories of grandeur like Podinay kay Baagh.


peace.

 

[AUz]

I don't know what is the fuss about?

Egyptian military completely fu*ked Israel up according to the plan until they move deep in the Sinai with their armor under the pressure of Soviet/Syria,which was NOT the plan.

When you go against your own plan,what else can you expect? Israeli Air superiority was neutralized by the Egyptian Air Defence but as soon as Egyptian forces went out of the "protected zone"--They faced the music ! Arabs shattered the myth that Arabs can't fight in modern warfare.Today,I don't think that Israel even stand a chance against combine forces of Egypt,Jordan,Syria,Saudia etc etc (Not taking nuclear into consideration) ..Israel still has better soliders,wayyyyyyy better pilots etc but the conventional advantage is too large now..Also if conventional war erupts,Israel would be facing Hezbullah and Hamas too

As exceptional as Israelis are but they couldn't have survived without the West/US behind them.

 

[FaujHistorian]

1. Does not matter who went to war or who didn't. ALL arabs have changed. 40 years ago most Saudis were illiterate and lived without electricity. Surely you can not compare the people of that age with the people of THIS age.

2. . Egypt will restart he hostilities if it did not get a fair treatment for themselves and the Palestinians .

3. The next generation will see to it that Israel no longer has the upper hand

4. And for final point religiously speaking Arabs went to fight those wars as Arabs and this is where the failed the most in.

For #1,2,3 what can I say. Best wishes.

For #4, Are you implying that Arabs should not have fought wars with Israel as Arabs?
Care to enlighten us as to how Arabs should have fought those wars as?

How?
as Martians?
or Moonians (oh wait perhaps Lunians or lunatics).


I think it is time to say good bye to war mongering. Let Palestinians resolve their issues with Israelis. The rest of the Arabs should have cordial relations with Israel. Ok Perhaps it is a wishful thinking.


peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.,....


1. but as soon as Egyptian forces went out of the "protected zone"--They faced the music ! .......

2... As exceptional as Israelis are but they couldn't have survived without the West/US behind them.

For #1, you won't quit spreading the myths. won't you?

Was the whole 3rd Army of Egypt out of the so-called "protected zone"? Heck no. They were sitting on the Egyptian side of Suez, sipping gahwa and watching belly dancing. (OK belly dancing is just to emphasize the idiocy of Egyptian military).

Just look at the map please before spreading false history. Thank you.


For #2, Yes Israel had support of USA, but the whole Arab armies had Commies Soviets behind them. What's your point? Each one picked a backer, then why to pick on only one party?


I urge you my dear poster to quit spreading falsehood and made up history.

Peace.

 

[Mosamania]

For #1,2,3 what can I say. Best wishes.

For #4, Are you implying that Arabs should not have fought wars with Israel as Arabs?
Care to enlighten us as to how Arabs should have fought those wars as?

How?
as Martians?
or Moonians (oh wait perhaps Lunians or lunatics).


I think it is time to say good bye to war mongering. Let Palestinians resolve their issues with Israelis. The rest of the Arabs should have cordial relations with Israel. Ok Perhaps it is a wishful thinking.


peace.

Even if you wish to dismiss it but I have read a lot of history too (Especially Japanese and Chinese) and to me the world has not changed. Maybe there is a UN now and world trade centers etc. but the world is still the same as it was 1000 years ago. Everyone wages wars for religious and political claims the same they did 2000 years ago. Rome used to invade for gold mines. the US is invading for Oil. Rome said it was bringing civilization to "Barbarians" the US says it is bringing "democracy" the world is still the same only now there is more paper work to do to get the same things done.

We will not throw the Palestinians under the bus they were routed out of their homes in 48 when the Haggana and the Yevosh would massacre them if they did not and only after that when Israel state was created. for instance the deir yassin massacre was done in April the war started in May and the Israelis twisting history to make it look like it happened the other way around. (feel free to research these facts yourself) but we will not allow a state created illegally to not go unchallenged. Israel was forced on the Palestinian people not the other way around.

 

[MadDog]

Please guys do you think armies can change in 20-30 years..NO

These are the words of a historian who said every Israeli Division faced 2 Egyptian Division backed by another Egyptian division. Normally if you are on the offensive you should have an advantage of 3:1 (in terms of troop strength) against the defending army...but Israel was doing opposite...with 1:3 ( advantage to the Egyptians). I am not even considering the Syrians and Jordanians here.

Please appreciate the way the Israeli Defense Forces fought and don't be biased. Egypt stopped a ship bringing arms to Pakistan during 1971 war...they will never change...and their army doesn't need to be respected. Respect has to be earned and in my opinion IDF earned it in 1967, 73 and in various other operations overseas (especially the one in Uganda).

Pakistan and Israel have so many similarities (discussed on various forums) especially the doctrines of their armies and intelligence agencies ( Both ISI and Mossad have mind***** their enemies). So please don't bring religion into it...respect the professionalism of IDF.

 

[Mosamania]

Please guys do you think armies can change in 20-30 years..NO

These are the words of a historian who said every Israeli Division faced 2 Egyptian Division backed by another Egyptian division. Normally if you are on the offensive you should have an advantage of 3:1 (in terms of troop strength) against the defending army...but Israel was doing opposite...with 1:3 ( advantage to the Egyptians). I am not even considering the Syrians and Jordanians here.

Please appreciate the way the Israeli Defense Forces fought and don't be biased. Egypt stopped a ship bringing arms to Pakistan during 1971 war...they will never change...and their army doesn't need to be respected. Respect has to be earned and in my opinion IDF earned it in 1967, 73 and in various other operations overseas (especially the one in Uganda).

Pakistan and Israel have so many similarities (discussed on various forums) especially the doctrines of their armies and intelligence agencies ( Both ISI and Mossad have mind***** their enemies). So please don't bring religion into it...respect the professionalism of IDF.

Armies can change in less time than that..
The 1967 war is a humiliating defeat which came as a compilation of Good Israeli tactics good planning good intelligence vs bad of all the of the above by the Egyptians Syrians and Jordanians. Egypt was caught off guard and they failed to plan and make sure they would not be caught in such a situation.
And I am sensing that you are basing all of this post on the ship incidents...And your assumption of "they will never change" is equally preposterous.

 

[AUz]

For #1, you won't quit spreading the myths. won't you?

Was the whole 3rd Army of Egypt out of the so-called "protected zone"? Heck no. They were sitting on the Egyptian side of Suez, sipping gahwa and watching belly dancing. (OK belly dancing is just to emphasize the idiocy of Egyptian military).

O.K first, don't act as a excited young man who have seen few documentaries and thinks "I know the history,yeyyy". Secondly,quote me where I'm spreading 'myths'? All I'm saying is : Egyptian Military did a wonder ful job and kick Israeli ***** UNTIL they deviated from their original plan and went deep into Sinai without Air cover.Israel turned the tide of the war after that...What is 'myth' here?

Just look at the map please before spreading false history. Thank you.

No,I don't study history by looking at the maps alone.

Breaking through the Israeli Bar-lev lines was quite a feat by Egyptian Military.It was considered as "suicide" to go against the Bar-Lev lines by crossing the suez---Egyptian Army did that very,very successfully !

If you look politically--Egypt won as after the war Israel had to make peace and give Sinai back to Egypt because they knew that future war would be even more costly.

Was the whole 3rd Army of Egypt out of the so-called "protected zone"?

You talk too much about encirclement of third army.."who" made that operation possible--"SR-71 Blackbird" Moreover,Egyptian stand on this is that the third Army was fully mobilized for the war and they could've fought Israel for couple of weeks,easily.The only problem was water and Egyptian engineers had already solved that problem--since you read too much history..I guess you would know "how" they did that By the way,how many books have you read on this topic? Do you know about a book called "Eve of Destruction"? and heck ! Did you even read General Arien Sharon's biography and what he says about the operation? You certainly know all the history

Bottom line : 1973 war changed the middle-east forever.It shattered the myth of Israeli "invincibility" and Israeli commanders accept that !

 

[Zabaniyah]

Even if you wish to dismiss it but I have read a lot of history too (Especially Japanese and Chinese) and to me the world has not changed. Maybe there is a UN now and world trade centers etc. but the world is still the same as it was 1000 years ago. Everyone wages wars for religious and political claims the same they did 2000 years ago. Rome used to invade for gold mines. the US is invading for Oil. Rome said it was bringing civilization to "Barbarians" the US says it is bringing "democracy" the world is still the same only now there is more paper work to do to get the same things done.

America's civilization heritage is actually Roman

I have lived in Japan for around 2 years, and boy, did those guys gain my respect.

I find it quite remarkable that the Chinese have developed their military and commercial industries so quickly.

Developing and third world countries can learn from that.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.......


You talk too much about encirclement of third army.."who" made that operation possible--"SR-71 Blackbird" ....

Very good my dear poster. Yes. Bunch of SR-71s landed in Egypt and encircled the whole of 3rd army. Hhahhahahahah.

Israel didn't have to send a single soldier to cross Suez and enter Egypt. NOT!

I wish you were reading some history and not pulling things out of your know where?

A hat! off course. (get your mind out of dirty places )


peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......
We will not throw the Palestinians under the bus .....

No one has to. Poor Palis are already under the Hamas and other Salafi Islamists (much worse than the bus).


You my dear poster sound very much like the UN-great leader aka Nejat.

You know the joke about Iranians? Don't you?

They say, Iranians and Nejat will fight Israel until the last Palestinian.

Get it?

Peace. my dear peace.

 

[agentny17]

FaujHistrorian, you need some help..... Does downgrading others make you feel better about yourself ? if that is true, then you need lots of help..... Egyptians, Syrians, and the rest of the Arabs and Muslims foreces that joinded them and died in the battles didn't fight the 1973 Ramadan/October/Yom kippur war for you, or to make you respect them. Those are great people who actually TRIED to change for the sake of their countries, religons, and for a better future, and you on the other hand are sitting infront of a screen and trying to downgrade everything they did.... Your posts are not just arrogant, and disrespectful, but also they show your ignorance not just about what the who Israeli/Arab conflict, and 1973 Ramadan/October/Yomkippur war the but also about the history of the region.... If you wanna learn, you can ask, read. Lastly, their is two sides for every story. You don't just take what you like or want to believe out of histrory, you hear both sides and believe the facts, and whoever have a better argument, not what you want to believe.

 

[EGYPT2100]

you know

you all make me sure day after day that i was wrong to join Pakistan Defence

you really don't know any thing true about egypt and some of you are saying about egypt that it's pathetic and begging for mercy

looks like you forgot that mercy is only from ALLAH as all muslims like us egyptions know

if you can read arabic or not , i have only one last thing to say

حسبي الله و نعم الوكيل

 

[Imran Khan]

wonderfull ladies explianing the war few lines is enough? thread become chit chat and false argue is on high.

 

[Mosamania]

you know

you all make me sure day after day that i was wrong to join Pakistan Defence

you really don't know any thing true about egypt and some of you are saying about egypt that it's pathetic and begging for mercy

looks like you forgot that mercy is only from ALLAH as all muslims like us egyptions know

if you can read arabic or not , i have only one last thing to say

حسبي الله و نعم الوكيل

You were not wrong to join Pakistan defense forum no one has to agree with everything you say to make it a good forum. Yes a lot of people look down on us Arabs and then claim this is the gas for us. Brother we have a lot to do as Muslims first and as Arabs second ti prove to all people lie this who we really are. Our actions will speak louder than any word.

I used to be just a guest here but after a while I was fed up with the lies and insults directed at my country and to us Arabs so I took the mantle to correct people's ideas I suggest you do the same. Just standing still will not change anything.