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Cairo Arab-Israel war museum.(free trip)

As I said according to Egyptian beliefs. In my opinion however the two armies were at a stand still. neither had the advantage nor the upper hand.
As Kissinger describes it in his memoir Years of Upheaval, the cease-fire was a product of the Soviets desperately trying to save their Egyptian client and when it finally took effect the Israelis occupied almost all the west bank of the canal (I think Suez town remained unoccupied but encircled), thus surrounding the Egyptian 2nd Army and cutting it off from its base of supplies.

The debate in Washington then centered around how the beleaguered Egyptians were to be fed: would the U.S. have to airdrop water to them, or could the Israelis be convinced to supply Egyptian soldiers, many of whom they not only had just fought but had paroled five years earlier? Success either way would mean prying Egypt away from the orbit of the Soviet Union.

Eventually the Israelis were persuaded to permit relief supplies to the Egyptians. The promise, of course, was that in exchange for not utterly crushing its enemies in a just and justly-fought defensive war the U.S. would see to it that the Israeli military remained supreme in the Middle East - for until 1968 France, not the U.S., was the primary supplier of Israeli arms.

Odd that many Muslims here proclaim that Israel would quickly disappear without U.S. aid!
 
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Israeli military indeed did a brilliant job at defeating 3 countries in 6 days. Especially the Israeli Air force is credited with destroying hostile air forces on ground.

I would like to copy and paste what an air force magazine wrote in 1968

USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.


Not to forget the PAF pilots involved in the Arab-Israeli theater

3 Kills by Saif Ul Azam in 6 Day War ( 1 Israeli Mirage, 1 Israeli Vatour, 1 Israeli Mystere)
Air Aces Homepage

Other Arab Israeli Skirmishes, Alvi Sattar shot down 1 Israeli Mirage III

Air Aces Homepage


I wish the two countries could develop their defense relations, as their military doctrines
are aggressive unlike Arab armies or the Indian army.
 
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Israeli military indeed did a brilliant job at defeating 3 countries in 6 days. Especially the Israeli Air force is credited with destroying hostile air forces on ground.

I would like to copy and paste what an air force magazine wrote in 1968

USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.


Not to forget the PAF pilots involved in the Arab-Israeli theater

3 Kills by Saif Ul Azam in 6 Day War ( 1 Israeli Mirage, 1 Israeli Vatour, 1 Israeli Mystere)
Air Aces Homepage

Other Arab Israeli Skirmishes, Alvi Sattar shot down 1 Israeli Mirage III

Air Aces Homepage


I wish the two countries could develop their defense relations, as their military doctrines
are aggressive unlike Arab armies or the Indian army.

Thanks for this valuable information, for months i had been searching for a reliable source regarding Pakistani pilots participation in the Arab-Israli wars but all i found was forums discussing the topic rather actual sources.
 
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Yup bro this air force aces website is neutral and reliable plus it gives the details of all the aircraft shot down in all major and minor conflicts including both the world wars.

Hope you enjoyed visiting the site.
 
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As Kissinger describes it in his memoir Years of Upheaval, the cease-fire was a product of the Soviets desperately trying to save their Egyptian client and when it finally took effect the Israelis occupied almost all the west bank of the canal (I think Suez town remained unoccupied but encircled), thus surrounding the Egyptian 2nd Army and cutting it off from its base of supplies.

The debate in Washington then centered around how the beleaguered Egyptians were to be fed: would the U.S. have to airdrop water to them, or could the Israelis be convinced to supply Egyptian soldiers, many of whom they not only had just fought but had paroled five years earlier? Success either way would mean prying Egypt away from the orbit of the Soviet Union.

Eventually the Israelis were persuaded to permit relief supplies to the Egyptians. The promise, of course, was that in exchange for not utterly crushing its enemies in a just and justly-fought defensive war the U.S. would see to it that the Israeli military remained supreme in the Middle East - for until 1968 France, not the U.S., was the primary supplier of Israeli arms.

Odd that many Muslims here proclaim that Israel would quickly disappear without U.S. aid!


Solomon,

People who make up history get punished by the very history.

Arabs have suffered humiliating defeats in all the wars with Israel because they refuse to see the reality, and instead fabricate their Ali baba stories filled with lies.

There is a lot of hype and propaganda by Arabs about their wars with Israel. Unfortunately many Pakistanis lap up all that $hite with no hesitation whatsoever.

in the 1973 Yom Kippur war, Egyptians forces attacked from Sinai and Syrians from Golan.

Egyptians had a bit of success but Syrian army was totally routed.

Egyptians broke through Israeli defense lines and drove into Siani. Israelis were totally unprepared due to the holiest of their day called Yom Kippur.

Egyptians on the other hand were practicing their plan for months. Israelis knew about it but chose to ignore on that fateful day for many reasons.

Egyptians used freshly supplied Commie-Soviet missiles against Israeli tanks and surface to air missiles to bring down Israeli planes. Israel suffered large number of kills of its tan ks and planes.

No one can deny the Egyptians success in those initial few days.

However the war didn't end in few days. Israel recovered quickly and had the Egyptians stopped in their tracks.

It was pathetic that Egyptians were dancing in Siani, while Israeli army circled arround, crossed Suez and occupied Egyptian mainland along with huge 3rd army.

Once the supply lines for Egyptian army were cut on both sides, they went begging to Soviet commies for ceasefire.


Syrians were in much worse shape. Israeli army came knocking at Damascus and Syrian Assad Sr. was peeing in his pants.

Perhaps Israelis should have taken out Assad family and saved 1000s of Syrians butchered by Assad Sr. son the latest despot in the pathetic Arab land.

In the end both Egyptians and Syrians were begging for mercy.

This is a very quick but fair analysis of 1973 war. If any Pakistani wants to live in the la la land of Arab superiority, they are welcome to do so. But then so many of us Paks live in Islamist aka foll's world anyways.

Bottom line is that Arab armies cannot fight modern wars. They can only do what Libyans and Syrian armies are doing right now. Killing and butchering their own people.

peace.
 
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Not to forget the PAF pilots involved in the Arab-Israeli theater
...

We should not forget the role of Pakistan army in the middle East either.

-- When Palestinians tried to bring down Jordanian government in 1970s, Pak army whooped their @rses and saved Jordan.
-- Defeat of Palestinian militants in Jordan meant, that Pak army stopped Palis from using Jordan as a launchpad for attacks in Israel.


Peace.
 
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As Kissinger describes it in his memoir Years of Upheaval, the cease-fire was a product of the Soviets desperately trying to save their Egyptian client and when it finally took effect the Israelis occupied almost all the west bank of the canal (I think Suez town remained unoccupied but encircled), thus surrounding the Egyptian 2nd Army and cutting it off from its base of supplies.

No doubt, the Egyptians were surrounded and were facing annihilation by the Israelis.

Eventually the Israelis were persuaded to permit relief supplies to the Egyptians. The promise, of course, was that in exchange for not utterly crushing its enemies in a just and justly-fought defensive war the U.S. would see to it that the Israeli military remained supreme in the Middle East - for until 1968 France, not the U.S., was the primary supplier of Israeli arms.

Not really, the mere fact that the Soviets threatened to intervene and started to mobilize their forces made the Israelis realize they faced annihilation if they confronted the Soviets head on. There was no chance in hell for a small nation like Israel to stand up and confront the Soviets. Soviet Airborne Brigades and Amphibious troops were ready and waiting for orders to be deployed. Israel did the smart thing by coming to the negotiating table because she knew that she cannot win a shooting war against the Big Bad Bear. And please dont tell me that NATO would have arrived to defend Israel, as they themselves were outgunned by Warsaw Pact forces on their Western front in 1973.
 
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Everyone likes to talk about how the arabs failed and how much of a losers they are etc.

The Arabs today are not the Arabs of 67 or 48 or 72. The upcoming war will answer all your question. What is happening in the Arab world is the change everyone was waiting for. The change nobody believe it could happen and not have even crossed their imaginations. The new generation of Arabs will show the world who we really are.
 
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Assalam alaikum

i m one of those who love islam and some ppl call me islamists etc and know overall the war were lost by arab regimes, but that doesnot mean they will always loose

TARIQ
 
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Assalam alaikum

i m one of those who love islam and some ppl call me islamists etc and know overall the war were lost by arab regimes, but that doesnot mean they will always loose

TARIQ

The Zionists now have the belief that Israel is the ruling God of the Middle East and they will win simply for being in the battlefield.....That was the Arab mistake at the time FYI.
 
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When egyptians perpared well they gave them a good fight besides i don't think arab will win any war on bases of nationalism

they forget نحن قوم اعزنا الله بالاسلام when they remeber it they will do what their grand fathers did earlier otherwise the outcome will be same AND IT GOEST FOR ALL OF US LIKE IT OR NOT might be some individual achievements here and there but the real one won't come until we goto our roots.

TARIQ
 
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Everyone likes to talk about how the arabs failed and how much of a losers they are etc.

The Arabs today are not the Arabs of 67 or 48 or 72. The upcoming war will answer all your question......

You my dear poster are making a sweeping statement. Egyptians bungled war with Israel not Saudis, or Kuwaitis, or Yemenis.

Syrians bungled the war with Israel, and not Jordanians.

You say Arabs have changed. Perhaps some.

But Hammas, Hizbullah, and Alaqaida linked Arabs are all making the same old mistakes, that were made by Palis back in 1948.

Some Egyptians want to stop gas supply to Israel and restart the hostilities. If they do, they will make the same mistake as they made in 67.

So I hope Egyptians have changed, and Syrians have changed for the better. I hope they remain peaceful. Because if they do not, then they will be whooped just like in the past.

It is not because of religion, instead it is because of brains and intellect and scientific and industrial development.

I hope you understand the well meaning and well wishing expressed in this post. Because as a historian, I hate to see Arabs repeat the same mistake, because if they do, the result too will be same.


peace.
 
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....... There was no chance in hell for a small nation like Israel to stand up and confront the Soviets. Soviet Airborne Brigades and Amphibious troops were ready and waiting for orders to be deployed. ...000.

Those were empty promises by Commies. In reality the Soviets didn't want to go to war with USA.

Read this:

"It is not reasonable to become engaged in a war with the United States because of Egypt and Syria," said Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin.

Egyptians knew of the empty promises. And guess what the Egyptians DUMPED Soviets for this reason not too long after the war.

peace.


p.s. We are talking about Egypt's whooping by Israel. Your insistence on Soviet threat will simple add to the weakness and bad military of Egypt.
 
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.....l the war were lost by arab regimes, but that doesnot mean they will always loose

TARIQ

Remember 2+2 is always 4. No amount of religiosity would make it anymore or any less.

Similarly the factors responsible for Egyptians and Syrian defeat have not changed and will not change in the near term.

Standing in Tehrir square and chanting God is great, may demolish Tin pot dictators.
Standing in Tehrir squrae and chanting God is great will not result in the defeat of Israel on the battleground facing Egyptian or Syrian armies.

I hope you understand this.

peace.
 
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You my dear poster are making a sweeping statement. Egyptians bungled war with Israel not Saudis, or Kuwaitis, or Yemenis.

Syrians bungled the war with Israel, and not Jordanians.

You say Arabs have changed. Perhaps some.

But Hammas, Hizbullah, and Alaqaida linked Arabs are all making the same old mistakes, that were made by Palis back in 1948.

Some Egyptians want to stop gas supply to Israel and restart the hostilities. If they do, they will make the same mistake as they made in 67.

So I hope Egyptians have changed, and Syrians have changed for the better. I hope they remain peaceful. Because if they do not, then they will be whooped just like in the past.

It is not because of religion, instead it is because of brains and intellect and scientific and industrial development.

I hope you understand the well meaning and well wishing expressed in this post. Because as a historian, I hate to see Arabs repeat the same mistake, because if they do, the result too will be same.


peace.

Does not matter who went to war or who didn't. ALL arabs have changed. 40 years ago most Saudis were illiterate and lived without electricity. Surely you can not compare the people of that age with the people of THIS age.

Hamas Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda does not represents all Arabs. You can call them the remnants of the old Arab mentality that is in its dying stage.

Egypt will restart he hostilities if it did not get a fair treatment for themselves and the Palestinians refusing to succumb to below market price for Gas etc. is their right and if Israel refuses then so be it the gas will stop.

The next generation will see to it that Israel no longer has the upper hand when it comes to overwhelming technology they wont be as advanced as those of Israel but they will be able to win (might seem imaginative and hopeful to you and maybe it is but I see great potential in the next generation a generation that refuses to be seen the way you see them just you wait and see my friend). And for final point religiously speaking Arabs went to fight those wars as Arabs and this is where the failed the most in.
 
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