But what if Imran Khan has it all wrong?

[Zarvan]

Ok dont enter tribal areas and then what? If we had not entered tribal areas americans would have ...
Total pakistani casualities are 20 k civilan 6 k army fc and police ...

Fatalities in Terrorist Violence in Pakistan 2003-2015

The casualties are more than 90000 and no USA wouldn't had a total lie and myth promoted by Musharraf in fact they also never told you to enter many CIA former people has told this Mushsrraf was more keen to prove his loyalties to USA and entered Tribal areas and since than what we have seen is bloodshed and bloodshed which could've been easily avoided.

Another bullshit comment by Taliban sympathizer. Bloodshed was bound to happen just like what's happening in Syria now. Hint: Rise of ISIS. Taliban/TTP would had penetrated inside Pakistan land by fleeing Afghanistan anyways just like they did in Swat.

No it wouldn't have taken place their was no monster known as TTP before Musharraf decided to go in Tribal areas they came after three years. Army entered in 2003 and monster TTP was born in 2006. My Pakistanis lost their lives because one USA puppet was too eager to prove to his master how loyal he is, the puppet is known as Musharraf. You gave birth to a cancer your actions speeded up its growth. Now you have to do major surgeries to get rid of it.

 

[salarsikander]

Ok let me burst this bubble

US casualities in afghan war stand at around 790.. half of them in accidents...
Taliban have not raised a single succesful ambush in 12 years ... They only over ran a single out post that too after succesful evacuation of US troops..
Mean while taliban has been slaughtered over 100 k casualities...

Only one war prisoner has been taken by taliban, that too a guy who wondered off on his own and now facing disciplinary action..

Hi,

Perhaps you are filling your bubble with too much air, more than it can take.

I am not sure in your esteemed opinion what qualifies as a major attack in the period of last 12 years:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...iban-shoots-down-Chinook-and-kills-bin-Laden-
hunters-in-biggest-Nato-loss-of-life-in-Afghanistan.html


Taliban ambush NATO supply column in western Afghanistan | The Long War Journal

US base in Afghanistan attacked by Taliban - Al Jazeera English

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html#axzz3gR4b9xDK

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/gm_paratroopers_web.pdf

6 Harrier jets destroyed, 2 damaged in Taliban assault on Camp Bastion | The Long War Journal

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/asia/14afghanistan.html?_r=0

and the list goes on.....

Its getting too late here, I cant recall the link, but some member did show the map which showed how much area is under control by Nato and the rest by Talibunnies.

Perhaps some member can share it. which shows NATOS controls over the terityory is very limited.

And please do share the first objectives of this operation and then tell me how many of them have been achieved.

For starters i recall, one of them was to establish a complete control or to dismantle and degrade their capability to carry out and launch attacks. what we see in reality is far from truth.

Disclaimer: I do not support terrorism neither I am by any means glorifying it. In fact like every other Pakistani. I equally in my capacity oppose, condemn and glorify terrorism
:

 

[Mrc]

The casualties are more than 90000 and no USA wouldn't had a total lie and myth promoted by Musharraf in fact they also never told you to enter many CIA former people has told this Mushsrraf was more keen to prove his loyalties to USA and entered Tribal areas and since than what we have seen is bllodshed and bloodshed which could've been easily avoided.


No it wouldn't have taken place their was no monster known as TTP before Musharraf decided to go in Tribal areas they came after three years. Army entered in 2003 and monster TTP was born in 2006. My Pakistanis lost their lives because one USA puppet was too eager to prove to his master how loyal he is he is known as Musharraf. You gave birth to a cancer your actions speeded up its growth. Now you have to major surgeries to get rid of it.

Is this 90000 figure from TTP????
You know..
it does not even matter...we will take these scums to their graves...

What in world makes you think that you will kill american civilians and they will not kill u back?

There were terrorist training camps in tribal areas..if a single attack on american soil that would have originated from our tribal areas, anericans would have been out for blood...and if we are doing nothing to prevent it i would say they wud have full right..

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

Perhaps you are filling your bubble with too much air, more than it can take.

I am not sure in your esteemed opinion what qualifies as a major attack in the period of last 12 years:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...iban-shoots-down-Chinook-and-kills-bin-Laden-
hunters-in-biggest-Nato-loss-of-life-in-Afghanistan.html


Taliban ambush NATO supply column in western Afghanistan | The Long War Journal

US base in Afghanistan attacked by Taliban - Al Jazeera English

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html#axzz3gR4b9xDK

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/gm_paratroopers_web.pdf

6 Harrier jets destroyed, 2 damaged in Taliban assault on Camp Bastion | The Long War Journal

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/asia/14afghanistan.html?_r=0

and the list goes on.....

Its getting too late here, I cant recall the link, but some member did show the map which showed how much area is under control by Nato and the rest by Talibunnies.

Perhaps some member can share it. which shows NATOS controls over the terityory is very limited.

And please do share the first objectives of this operation and then tell me how many of them have been achieved.

For starters i recall, one of them was to establish a complete control or to dismantle and degrade their capability to carry out and launch attacks. what we see in reality is far from truth.

Disclaimer: I do not support terrorism neither I am by any means glorifying it. In fact like every other Pakistani. I equally in my capacity oppose, condemn and glorify terrorism
:

These people are hardy ready to listen to truth harsh realities they want to remain in delusions you tell them reality you will be called terrorist sympathizer. I hate TTP but how it was born facts are way to harsh which some people here are not ready to listen.

Is this 90000 figure from TTP????
You know..
it does not even matter...we will take these scums to their graves...

What in world makes you think that you will kill american civilians and they will not kill u back?

There were terrorist training camps in tribal areas..if a single attack on american soil that would have originated from our tribal areas, anericans would have been out for blood...and if we are doing nothing to prevent it i would say they wud have full right..

Our own interior minister has told this if you would have bothered to talk to tribals they would have taken out few camps which were their although they were hardly any. yes to please USA you betray your own and than justify it sorry hardly any camp existed in our Tribal areas. The Maliks were in full control one order them and they would have cleared own area with help of local tribes. Jinah promised tribals that troops won't enter their area for a reason.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

These people are hardy ready to listen to truth harsh realities they want to remain in delusions you tell them reality you will be called terrorist sympathizer. I hate TTP but how it was born facts are way to harsh which some people here are not ready to listen.

Bhai jaan TTP was not started because of Musharaf. Please give me a break. They were paid thugs who disassociated themselves from Mullah Umer forces for money. Afghanistan war would had penetrated into Pakistan at every cost since it was not US/India/Israel/Martians but it always the religion which had connected the dots.

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

Perhaps you are filling your bubble with too much air, more than it can take.

I am not sure in your esteemed opinion what qualifies as a major attack in the period of last 12 years:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...iban-shoots-down-Chinook-and-kills-bin-Laden-
hunters-in-biggest-Nato-loss-of-life-in-Afghanistan.html


Taliban ambush NATO supply column in western Afghanistan | The Long War Journal

US base in Afghanistan attacked by Taliban - Al Jazeera English

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ccebfbea-6dd2-11dd-b5df-0000779fd18c.html#axzz3gR4b9xDK

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/gm_paratroopers_web.pdf

6 Harrier jets destroyed, 2 damaged in Taliban assault on Camp Bastion | The Long War Journal

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world/asia/14afghanistan.html?_r=0

and the list goes on.....

Its getting too late here, I cant recall the link, but some member did show the map which showed how much area is under control by Nato and the rest by Talibunnies.

Perhaps some member can share it. which shows NATOS controls over the terityory is very limited.

And please do share the first objectives of this operation and then tell me how many of them have been achieved.

For starters i recall, one of them was to establish a complete control or to dismantle and degrade their capability to carry out and launch attacks. what we see in reality is far from truth.

Disclaimer: I do not support terrorism neither I am by any means glorifying it. In fact like every other Pakistani. I equally in my capacity oppose, condemn and glorify terrorism
:

The attacks you listed are just about it...thats all folks... thats the total successes.....

Anerican objectives were to root out alqaeda, which they have
Prevent another 9/11
They have
Occupy afghanistan..

They may not control much of coutry but they rule it ...or do you think ashraf ghani or karzai are ruling it?

 

[salarsikander]

The casualties are more than 90000 and no USA wouldn't had a total lie and myth promoted by Musharraf in fact they also never told you to enter many CIA former people has told this Mushsrraf was more keen to prove his loyalties to USA and entered Tribal areas and since than what we have seen is bloodshed and bloodshed which could've been easily avoided.


No it wouldn't have taken place their was no monster known as TTP before Musharraf decided to go in Tribal areas they came after three years. Army entered in 2003 and monster TTP was born in 2006. My Pakistanis lost their lives because one USA puppet was too eager to prove to his master how loyal he is, the puppet is known as Musharraf. You gave birth to a cancer your actions speeded up its growth. Now you have to do major surgeries to get rid of it.

Hi,

I have answered to your statement countless times. and once more.

Do me a favour and watch this.

 

[Mrc]

These people are hardy ready to listen to truth harsh realities they want to remain in delusions you tell them reality you will be called terrorist sympathizer. I hate TTP but how it was born facts are way to harsh which some people here are not ready to listen.


Our own interior minister has told this if you would have bothered to talk to tribals they would have taken out few camps which were their although they were hardly any. yes to please USA you betray your own and than justify it sorry hardly any camp existed in our Tribal areas. The Maliks were in full control one order them and they would have cleared own area with help of local tribes. Jinah promised tribals that troops won't enter their area for a reason.

Maliks were slaughtered and ttp controlled all areas...

The truth...ok i will speak to you on this forum when americans really leave afghanistan probably in next 50 years...

Afghanistan is too crucial you see... it neighbours russia; china ; iran ; india and pakistan....
Americans are here to stay...

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Mullah Umar, Haqqani etc all pro-Pakistan jihadis are still living safe inside Pakistan as our forces don't hit them.

 

[Zarvan]

I always knew the idiot Imran Khan would lead the country into chaos if he was ever elected and his 2 cent propositions were to become true. Trying to start a negotiating process with TTP was one of the most stupid and vote garnering stunt the PTI and Imran Khan did.

First, the PTI did not even condemn the TTP for doing the December 2014 massacre. They used this event as a exit solution for their dharna. Plain, simple, and effective. This shows what beghairats are in PTI.

I will never support negotiations with people who murder children. The APS massacre was one of the most disgusting acts of violence not only committed in Pakistan, but in the whole world. My blood boils whenever I hear or see anyone wanting to negotiate with the animals who did this heinous act. I have nothing short of curses and insults for those who want negotiations and treating TTP like humans. They need to be exterminated like vermin.

This is one of the reasons I will never support Imran Khan or PTI.

Imran is the only leader who can bring Pakistan back and end chaos and bring economic propesrity and he warned you from day one don't enter Tribal areas you would get stuck and face backlash. Their was no TTP before you entered Tribal areas your actions gave birth to TTP and than you cry and abuse Imran he warned you but some USA loyalists are to loyal to USA.

Maliks were slaughtered and ttp controlled all areas...

The truth...ok i will speak to you on this forum when americans really leave afghanistan probably in next 50 years...

Afghanistan is too crucial you see... it neighbours russia; china ; iran ; india and pakistan....
Americans are here to stay...

Malik's got slaughtered after you entered Tribal areas they were in full power before and TTP was born in 2006 you entered Tribal areas in 2003 Sir get your facts right than talk. USA would leave and leave soon one major loss and those left in Afghanistan would also run away.

 

[syedali73]

No, this is not a thread about the punctures issue nor other areas of political showcraft. The question which is going to be explored here is what if Imran Khan has it all wrong when it comes to TTP.

Over the years we have witnessed Imran's carefully crafted narrative in support of negotiating with the TTP. He drew parallels with the IRA peace process and so on. Cutting the long story short, he did manage to convince many people that negotiations are the only option.

Looking at his narrative carefully over the years, i believe that he is not only ill informed about the conflict but also holds a flawed understanding of conflict dynamics concerning TTP vs the State.

We thought that after the spectacular success of operation zarb e azb and APS massacre Mr. Khan would alter his opinions but as soon as Murree negotiations started between two foreign entities he was singing the old song all over again.

1: His narrative that TTP wants negotiations is misleading as there have been half a dozen attempts to achieve it without any success . Swat is a good example of TTPs mercenary nature where they didn't keep their end of the deal .

2: He grossly underestimates what Pakistan Army can do through focused forced projection. He was trying to create a falsehood that Army feels stuck and we should therefore cut a shady deal with the TTP and pull our forces back. Op ZEA has destroyed his claim.

3: He thinks Murree peace process should be repeated with TTP. What he fails to see is that Afghan Taliban haven't been internationally tagged as a terrorist organization while TTP is.This makes any negotiations with TTP unconstitutional.

4: He has no understanding of the tactical situation on the battlefield. Army has squarely won the war and from this point onwards TTP has no sanctuaries in Pakistan. This means that the state only needs to re establish its writ because negotiations with TTP don't offer any strategic advantage.

5: India is backing TTP, so indirectly we would be negotiating with India ? - On what terms? - to what end ?

6: He lacks compassion. Would he have the same opinion if Sulaiman and Qasim were massacred in APS? - I'd doubt that.

7: He is surrounded by fanatics who actually support the TTP. Not just JI but his party itself has people who hold a soft corner for TTP.

8: He can't contemplate how to politically capitalize on a military victory.

9: He thinks its okay to legitimise an international terrorist group by negotiations conducted with the state.

10: He refused to become part of the delegation of negotiators when a last ditch attempt was made before the operation.

In my opinion IKs judgement on TTP issue is flawed on a moral, political, strategic and tactical level. After the success of the operations in North Waziristan he should be calling for only one kind of negotiations, to lay down the terms of TTP's surrender.

------------------------

Share your thoughts.

Imran is a victim of parochialism ( علاقائی عصبیت), it is as simple as that.

@Zarvan : Army is going to stay in Waziristan for it is part of Pakistan. Tribes have to decide whether they want to live in Pakistan being loyal to her or continue to challenge the writ as they have been doing from eons. If they choose the former, they'll reap benefits and if they opted for later, well then they'll be send to hell as all rebels should be. It is not about US troops, it is about Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

Had this post been posted 1 year back then there would have been something to discuss about but frankly speaking after the commencement of Zarb e Azab and especially after APS attack,he has been a vocal supporter of operation against not only TTP but all the terror outfits...

Right now discussing this issue is like beating a dead horse...I would say much ado about nothing

Bhai, he has RENEWED his narrative again, which is why this post belongs now.

sorry, everybody negotiates, even US is negotiating with taliban. Its only matter of time. If it was a small insurgency it would have been settled in a few months.

US was fighting at FOREIGN soil for DIFFERENT objectives.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

I have answered to your statement countless times. and once more.

Do me a favour and watch this.

Double WOW what a double cross you did you entered and bombed your own Tribal areas which resulted in bloodshed and ended up giving birth to TTP. Your so called double cross had caused us 90000 lives for me they were all precious lives and they could have lived if your Musharraf would've not entered Tribal areas to please USA

Bhai, he has RENEWED his narrative again, which is why this post belongs now.



US was fighting at FOREIGN soil for DIFFERENT objectives.

He just said when I talked about talks every one made fun of him and now USA is in talks and every one supports the just look at the irony. So what he said wrong ?

 

[salarsikander]

he attacks you listed are just about it...thats all folks... thats the total successes.

Hi,
The attacks that I listed was in response to your ridiculous statement saying that no Major attack was mounted during the period of 12 years. As I said the list can continue to go on

Anerican objectives were to root out alqaeda, which they have
Prevent another 9/11
They have
Occupy afghanistan.

No, then you have no clue of what Youre talking about. Please read the name of operation and what was the specific objective that was supposed to be met. List them here with link and then tell me how many of them have been met.

I mentioned one of the objective was stop cripple and degrade the terrorist network which is far from it.

And please dont disregard the links just by calling it "thats it i am sure you didnt even bother to open the link after second one. Otherwise you would not dismiss it as such

he attacks you listed are just about it...thats all folks... thats the total successes.

Hi,
The attacks that I listed was in response to your ridiculous statement saying that no Major attack was mounted during the period of 12 years. As I said the list can continue to go on

Anerican objectives were to root out alqaeda, which they have
Prevent another 9/11
They have
Occupy afghanistan.

No, then you have no clue of what Youre talking about. Please read the name of operation and what was the specific objective that was supposed to be met. List them here with link and then tell me how many of them have been met.

I mentioned one of the objective was stop cripple and degrade the terrorist network which is far from it.

And please dont disregard the links by calling them" Just thats all". I am sure You didn't bother to read after second link, otherwise you wouldn't dismiss it as such

Imran is the only leader who can bring Pakistan back and end chaos and bring economic propesrity and he warned you from day one don't enter Tribal areas you would get stuck and face backlash. Their was no TTP before you entered Tribal areas your actions gave birth to TTP and than you cry and abuse Imran he warned you but some USA loyalists are to loyal to USA.

Hi, again crazy logic, So you think we are fighting our own tribal people and not so,me paid mercenaries scum who are not circumcised ?

he attacks you listed are just about it...thats all folks... thats the total successes.

Hi,
The attacks that I listed was in response to your ridiculous statement saying that no Major attack was mounted during the period of 12 years. As I said the list can continue to go on

Anerican objectives were to root out alqaeda, which they have
Prevent another 9/11
They have
Occupy afghanistan.

No, then you have no clue of what Youre talking about. Please read the name of operation and what was the specific objective that was supposed to be met. List them here with link and then tell me how many of them have been met.

I mentioned one of the objective was stop cripple and degrade the terrorist network which is far from it.

And please dont disregard the links

 

[Zarvan]

Imran is a victim of parochialism ( علاقائی عصبیت), it is as simple as that.

@Zarvan : Army is going to stay in Waziristan for it is part of Pakistan. Tribes have to decide whether they want to live in Pakistan being loyal to her or continue to challenge the writ as they have been doing from eons. If they choose the former, they'll reap benefits and if they opted for later, well then they'll be send to hell as all rebels should be. It is not about US troops, it is about Pakistan.

No they won't finally it would be FC which would be deployed yes they are part of Pakistan but they became one on promise that no troops will enter their area.