BUT PUNJABIS NEVER RULED OVER THEMSELVES!

[Hamza913]

Harappa, one of the oldest cities in the world, is in the Punjab and evidence indicates it probably ruled over itself (due to it’s dissimilar layout to other Indus Valley cities like Mohenjo-Daro)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harappa

The early Vedic people were from the Punjab

Bahawalpur was a state from southern Punjab, ruled by Punjabis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)

Mahmud Gujjar was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of southern Punjab for 30 years

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKzAB

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKDAA

Porus was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of northern Punjab

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porus

Ambhi was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of northern Punjab, and was Porus’ main rival

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Hydaspes

Ahmed Khan Karral was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of the Punjab

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/157720-Ahmed-Khan-Kharal-and-the-Raj

Muqarrab Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over much of northern Punjab

http://gakhars.blogspot.com/2013/06/gakhar-history.html

Sarang Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over the Potohar Plateau (see previous link for info on him as well as the one below)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan

@Indus Pakistan @Samlee @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @newb3e @AfrazulMandal @M.R.9 @Army research @Champion_Usmani @Clutch @Areesh @Zibago @django @Horus @Mentee @maximuswarrior @Imran Khan @Reichsmarschall @Talwar e Pakistan @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz @Starlord @hussain0216 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Azadkashmir @Taimoor Khan @Hassan Guy @JohnWick @Sindhi(Indus)

 

[Kompromat]

There's no Punjab. Not as a homogeneous entity and that kind of explains why the place is not a basket case.

Ethnofascists everywhere are a curse, Punjab is relatively free of scumbag movements like Lal Topi Tehreek.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Harappa, one of the oldest cities in the world, is in the Punjab and evidence indicates it probably ruled over itself (due to it’s dissimilar layout to other Indus Valley cities like Mohenjo-Daro)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harappa

The early Vedic people were from the Punjab

Bahawalpur was a state from southern Punjab, ruled by Punjabis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahawalpur_(princely_state)

Mahmud Gujjar was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of southern Punjab for 30 years

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKzAB

https://books.google.co.uk/books?dq...ved=0ahUKEwiLvtWlxYHgAhUfRxUIHSiDB7MQ6AEIKDAA

Porus was a Punjabi who ruled over parts of northern Punjab

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porus

Ambhi was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of northern Punjab, and was Porus’ main rival

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Hydaspes

Ahmed Khan Karral was a Punjabi who also ruled over parts of the Punjab

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/157720-Ahmed-Khan-Kharal-and-the-Raj

Muqarrab Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over much of northern Punjab

http://gakhars.blogspot.com/2013/06/gakhar-history.html

Sarang Khan was a Punjabi who ruled over the Potohar Plateau (see previous link for info on him as well as the one below)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Sarang_Khan

@Indus Pakistan @Samlee @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @newb3e @AfrazulMandal @M.R.9 @Army research @Champion_Usmani @Clutch @Areesh @Zibago @django @Horus @Mentee @maximuswarrior @Imran Khan @Reichsmarschall @Talwar e Pakistan @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz @Starlord @hussain0216 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Azadkashmir @Taimoor Khan @Hassan Guy @JohnWick @Sindhi(Indus)

If this was taught to them in schools ~ less might be inclined to blow themselves up at the altar of some mullah or becoming hijacked by trans- national religious extremism.

 

[Hamza913]

There's no Punjab. Not as a homogeneous entity

The Punjab itself is just the land of the five rivers. It is diverse but the people living in it are all genetically/culturally similar in a loose sense.

If this was taught to them in schools ~ less might be inclined to blow themselves up at the altar of some mullah or becoming hijacked by trans- national religious extremism.

A lot of Punjabis already know most of this stuff. And I don't see how it would effect that.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

A lot of Punjabis already know most of this stuff. And I don't see how it would effect that.

I think all provinces [ethnic groups] need to own and celebrate their own unique histories from dawn of history. Each province [ethnic group] can then bring to the collage that is Pakistan a stronger federation. I use the UK as template. The -

• Welsh
• Scots
• Ulster Irish
• English

Each full of pride and celebrating their own unique histories united under the Union Jack as the United Kingdom.

 

[Hamza913]

I think all provinces [ethnic groups] need to own and celebrate their own unique histories from dawn of history.

That's already the case, and it's not what you're looking for.

What you want is for Pakistanis to view ourselves as Punjabis, Pashtuns, Balochis, Sindhis or whatever else we are just as much as we view ourselves as Muslims. But that's not going to happen. Most of us are Muslim before anything else.

 

[xyxmt]

That's already the case, and it's not what you're looking for.

What you want is for Pakistanis to view ourselves as Punjabis, Pashtuns, Balochis, Sindhis or whatever else we are just as much as we view ourselves as Muslims. But that's not going to happen. Most of us are Muslim before anything else.

Bangalis were Muslim before anything else too, all Arabs are Muslim before Palestinian, Jordanian, Egyptians and etc etc....its time to accept the reality that ethnicity comes before religion, once we know the truth its easy to face it.

 

[Hamza913]

Bangalis were Muslim before anything else too,

They clearly weren't.

all Arabs are Muslim before Palestinian, Jordanian, Egyptians and etc

Not true

its time to accept the reality that ethnicity comes before religion

إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَذْهَبَ عَنْكُمْ عُبِّيَّةَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ وَفَخْرَهَا بِالْآبَاءِ إِنَّمَا هُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ تَقِيٌّ وَفَاجِرٌ شَقِيٌّ النَّاسُ كُلُّهُمْ بَنُو آدَمَ وَآدَمُ خُلِقَ مِنْ تُرَابٍ

Verily, Allah has removed from you the pride of the time of ignorance with its boasting of ancestors. Verily, one is only a righteous believer or a miserable sinner. All of the people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created from dust.

Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 3955, Grade: Sahih

لَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ دَعَا إِلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ وَلَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ قَاتَلَ عَلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ وَلَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ مَاتَ عَلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ

He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 5102, Grade: Sahih

Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 5665, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586

Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslim

عَنْ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ بَشِيرٍ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَثَلُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي تَوَادِّهِمْ وَتَرَاحُمِهِمْ وَتَعَاطُفِهِمْ مَثَلُ الْجَسَدِ إِذَا اشْتَكَى مِنْهُ عُضْوٌ تَدَاعَى لَهُ سَائِرُ الْجَسَدِ بِالسَّهَرِ وَالْحُمَّى

5665 صحيح البخاري كتاب الأدب باب رحمة الناس والبهائم

2586 صحيح مسلم كتاب البر والصلة والآداب باب تراحم المؤمنين وتعاطفهم وتعاضدهم

 

[Kambojaric]

Even many of the foreign dynasties that entered the region turned native (Gandharan) and dominated the neighboring provinces from Punjab. For example the Indo-Greek Menander ruling from his capital Sagala (Sialkot) had adopted Buddhism. Similar examples can be seen of foreign dynasties establishing themselves at Taxila and adopting local customs.

 

[xyxmt]

They clearly weren't.



Not true

View attachment 536879



إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَذْهَبَ عَنْكُمْ عُبِّيَّةَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ وَفَخْرَهَا بِالْآبَاءِ إِنَّمَا هُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ تَقِيٌّ وَفَاجِرٌ شَقِيٌّ النَّاسُ كُلُّهُمْ بَنُو آدَمَ وَآدَمُ خُلِقَ مِنْ تُرَابٍ

Verily, Allah has removed from you the pride of the time of ignorance with its boasting of ancestors. Verily, one is only a righteous believer or a miserable sinner. All of the people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created from dust.

Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 3955, Grade: Sahih

لَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ دَعَا إِلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ وَلَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ قَاتَلَ عَلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ وَلَيْسَ مِنَّا مَنْ مَاتَ عَلَى عَصَبِيَّةٍ

He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 5102, Grade: Sahih

Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 5665, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586

Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslim

عَنْ النُّعْمَانِ بْنِ بَشِيرٍ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَثَلُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فِي تَوَادِّهِمْ وَتَرَاحُمِهِمْ وَتَعَاطُفِهِمْ مَثَلُ الْجَسَدِ إِذَا اشْتَكَى مِنْهُ عُضْوٌ تَدَاعَى لَهُ سَائِرُ الْجَسَدِ بِالسَّهَرِ وَالْحُمَّى

5665 صحيح البخاري كتاب الأدب باب رحمة الناس والبهائم

2586 صحيح مسلم كتاب البر والصلة والآداب باب تراحم المؤمنين وتعاطفهم وتعاضدهم

we are not the Muslims Quran is addressing in those verses, Pray to Allah that we become like that and then those verses will relate to us.

 

[Hamza913]

we are not the Muslims Quran is addressing in those verses

1. I quoted ahadith.
2. They apply to us.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But that's not going to happen. Most of us are Muslim before anything else.

This is where people like you are class A hypocrites. It's easy to spout high ideals but let's look at this contention of yours is true or just bluster. Saying is easy. Living and acting on what you claim is the real test. Okay -

• If Muslim is before everything please tell me why Pakistan does not put where it's mouth is by actually accepting Muslims and giving them citizenship?
• Mention giving citizenship to Afghans and suddenly out goes the 'Muslim first' and in comes ethnic/nationalism bias. You can guage that on PDF. So much for 'Muslims first'.
• If Muslims are first why is there a clear division in ethnic based voting by the Pakistani 'Muslim first'? Mohajor vote for MQM, Sindhi vote for PPP, Pashtuns vote for PTI northern Punjabi's vote for PML-N etc. I know there are exceptions but we all know this pattern holds true.

There is only one country on earth that places religion above everything and that is Israel. That is why anybody and I mean anybody from America, Europe, Africa, Asia can settle in Israel one qualificatiuon "I am a Jew". While most Jews in Israel came from Europe and Middle East but then African Jews from Ethopia or Falasha Jews were transported to Israel. On one basis. They were Jews although they looked African and were Ethopian citizens. This is what you call "religion first" before race, ethnicity, language etc.

Not the delusion or deception you and most of Pakistan peddles. Which means say one thing but do another. Like I said class A hypocracy.

Look at IDF. What unites them is Jews from across the globe.

Muslim first

What you actually mean is when it suits you. When it does not or the going gets tough you find other excuses to cop out of 'Muslim first'. It's like take away. You order what you want and avoid what you don't want.

If you really believed in 'Muslim first' it would be delivered by action and deeds. Not quoting Hadith and feel pompous.

 

[Hamza913]

If Muslim is before everything please tell me why Pakistan does not put where it's mouth is by actually accepting Muslims and giving them citizenship?

Ask the Pakistani government that, not me.

Mention giving citizenship to Afghans and suddenly out goes the 'Muslim first' and in comes ethnic/nationalism bias. You can guage that on PDF. So much for 'Muslims first'.

I'm all for giving them citizenship.

If Muslims are first why is there a clear division in ethnic based voting by the Pakistani 'Muslim first'? Mohajor vote for MQM, Sindhi vote for PPP, Pashtuns vote for PTI northern Punjabi's vote for PML-N etc. I know there are exceptions but we all know this pattern holds true.

Ask the people who do that.

There is only one country on earth that places religion above everything and that is Israel. That is why anybody and I mean anybody from America, Europe, Africa, Asia can settle in Israel one qualificatiuon "I am a Jew". While most Jews in Israel came from Europe and Middle East but then African Jews from Ethopia or Falasha Jews were transported to Israel. On one basis. They were Jews although they looked African and were Ethopian citizens. This is what you call "religion first" before race, ethnicity, language etc.

And we should follow their example.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Ask the Pakistani government that, not me.

The government merely reflects the sentiment of the people. Most PDF members will openly scream "Muslim first" but when it comes to delivering on that bluster they run away or hide under other excuses. The reason why I pointed out about the African Jews was simple. Most of the Israeli elite was of white European descent. Many were not keen on bringing in Africans on the 'Jew first' ticket. Even today there is widespread racism and prejudice against African Jews but they still transported in planeloads of African Jews because you can claim to be 'Jew homeland' and then begin to discriminate on secular geographic boundaries or ethnic groups.

in Pakistan vast majority will [as you showed via Pew survey] sing the 'Muslim first' but in practice most are NOT prepared to act on such big talk. The Afghan issue exposes that sham. All I am saying is choose either the 'Muslim first' or 'ethnic bias'. At the moment it appears to be ethnic bias hidden behind the tall claim of 'Muslim first'.

And that is hypocracy at it's finest.

 

[Hamza913]

The government merely reflects the sentiment of the people.

Not at all, the Pakistani government doesn't rule by Sharia, but the Pakistani people on the other hand: