Burning of Koran is CANCELLED

[TruthSeeker]

Would you also vote for no American presence in Iraq? Since 2003 millions of muslims over there have lost their lives & the invasion itself was under false pretenses, and i think since its the high time for Americans to get in touch with their feelings, how about they also show some sensitivity & not set a foot in Japan's Hiroshima & Nagasaki for virtually killing all the inhabitants of these cities...........?

Yes, I would vote against invading Iraq. Course, we are all much smarter about Saddam's WMD's now. As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, if a majority of the Japanese people did not want any Americans to visit those cities, I would honor their feelings and not visit.

 

[Coltsfan]

I agree! Don't you wish all countries, even Muslim countries, had constitutions with individual rights spelled out and enforced?

Trust me, I so do wish that could happen. But that is not going to happen since the concept of equal rights for all is very different in the majority of Islamic countries, I don't foresee them implementing the western style democratic system anytime soon.

But, I don't think building a mosque at a particular spot is a basic right. NYC could have denied the building permit for a host of reasons but chose not to, for their own "political" reasons. Church buildings are opposed by neighborhood groups all the time in the USA, usually because of parking and traffic issues, but sometimes because of the "politics" of the church. Many churches are denied building permits because of neighborhood opposition and have to locate elsewhere. That is why you see the Baptist megachurches being built out away from residential neighborhoods, like a big box Walmart.

They could have denied but they didn't, infact before this controversy turned into a monster, the vote to allow construction of the islamic center was passed unanimously (9-0 I believe was the vote).

All the objections later on about alleged link b/w financiers and Saudi prince etc etc are after thought.

IMO opinion it is wrong to implicate all of US Muslims for actions of 9/11 and deny them their right to build a place of worship on a private property.

 

[CardSharp]

Aha, it took only one response to get a racist out of you... so spare your gospel about confederate flag and slavery and racism..

lol you sir are hilarious and I am so glad I've gotten to know you

 

[muse]

Because many Americans believe that the radical Muslims would view the completion of a mosque near the scene of their greatest triumph as a new cause for celebration and a victory

The Mosque is US Muslim project, it seems some our interlocutors are determined to deny that "radical Muslims" are not just a very small minority of persons but rather are the entirety of Islam; Just like Christians have radicals and Jewry has radicals, so does Islam, does that mean that US Muslims must reject Christian and Jewish proposals and projects because some radical minority among Jews and Christians might see in it their great triumph?

Really, this comes across as unconsidered and desperate.

 

[TruthSeeker]

IMO opinion it is wrong to implicate all of US Muslims for actions of 9/11 and deny them their right to build a place of worship on a private property.

They aren't being denied anything. They are being ASKED to change the location to a bit farther away. They have the choice. NYC has given them the choice. The State of New York has offered its help in finding another suitable place. This whole discussion is about sensitivities on the two sides. The one side believes that Islamic "triumphalism" is going on, the other side believes "guilt by association" is going on. The controlling governmental authority, NYC, has given its approval to build the mosque there. So build it. No one is stopping them. They are just bitching at them. If they believe in their heart of hearts the mosque will be a good thing for NYC and America and Muslims, they should ignore the bitching and get on with their plans.

 

[gambit]

Trust me, I so do wish that could happen. But that is not going to happen since the concept of equal rights for all is very different in the majority of Islamic countries, I don't foresee them implementing the western style democratic system anytime soon.

A Western style of democracy cannot exist unless there is a recognition of fundamental rights that are not endowed by a government. For example: You have a right to association with anyone you chose but you do not a right to drive a car unless certain criteria are satisfied. A dictatorship will deny that there is anything such as a 'fundamental' right.

They could have denied but they didn't, infact before this controversy turned into a monster, the vote to allow construction of the islamic center was passed unanimously (9-0 I believe was the vote).

All the objections later on about alleged link b/w financiers and Saudi prince etc etc are after thought.

IMO opinion it is wrong to implicate all of US Muslims for actions of 9/11 and deny them their right to build a place of worship on a private property.

No one is denying the right to build this Islamic triumphalist structure. Unless you are claiming that criticisms constitute such legal denial.

 

[CardSharp]

They aren't being denied anything. They are being ASKED to change the location to a bit farther away. They have the choice. NYC has given them the choice. The State of New York has offered its help in finding another suitable place. This whole discussion is about sensitivities on the two sides. The one side believes that Islamic "triumphalism" is going on, the other side believes "guilt by association" is going on. The controlling governmental authority, NYC, has given its approval to build the mosque there. So build it. No one is stopping them. They are just bitching at them. If they believe in their heart of hearts the mosque will be a good thing for NYC and America and Muslims, they should ignore the bitching and get on with their plans.

I think the Islamic triumphalism side is in the wrong personally. The Cordoba house (a significant enough name to disarm people who understand it) is like two blocks away. This whole ground zero Mosque name is played up by idiots like Glenn Beck to make it seem like it is some kind of triumphalist statement.

 

[InPhilTraitor]

lol you sir are hilarious and I am so glad I've gotten to know you

Certainly, but your abuse of my nationality is not. I know what your nationality is and have never used or abused it. You on the contrary with one dis-agreement rushed on to "malign" and disrespect mine.

Please now do not get down to personal attacks about my "mental state", I already have too many "shrinks" on this forum who figured my "Indian" mentality.

 

[Jigs]

They aren't being denied anything. They are being ASKED to change the location to a bit farther away. They have the choice. NYC has given them the choice. The State of New York has offered its help in finding another suitable place. This whole discussion is about sensitivities on the two sides. The one side believes that Islamic "triumphalism" is going on, the other side believes "guilt by association" is going on. The controlling governmental authority, NYC, has given its approval to build the mosque there. So build it. No one is stopping them. They are just bitching at them. If they believe in their heart of hearts the mosque will be a good thing for NYC and America and Muslims, they should ignore the bitching and get on with their plans.

And like i said both those things hold no relations to Islam. That 70% are bunching the two up. Islam and 9/11.

 

[Coltsfan]

They aren't being denied anything. They are being ASKED to change the location to a bit farther away. They have the choice. NYC has given them the choice. The State of New York has offered its help in finding another suitable place. This whole discussion is about sensitivities on the two sides. The one side believes that Islamic "triumphalism" is going on, the other side believes "guilt by association" is going on. The controlling governmental authority, NYC, has given its approval to build the mosque there. So build it. No one is stopping them. They are just bitching at them. If they believe in their heart of hearts the mosque will be a good thing for NYC and America and Muslims, they should ignore the bitching and get on with their plans.

Ok let us take your logic at face value and assume that moving the proposed islamic center away would solve the problem.

Question then becomes , how far away is far enough?

5 blocks, 10 blocks, 15 blocks, across the river?

you get my drift?

there would always be people for whom construction of any mosque in neighborhood would be a threat (as in TN).

IMO they should just lie low till the elections are over and then construct and finish the project before 2012 elections roll in.

 

[Jigs]

Ok let us take your logic at face value and assume that moving the proposed islamic center away would solve the problem.

Question then becomes , how far away is far enough?

5 blocks, 10 blocks, 15 blocks, across the river?

you get my drift?

there would always be people for whom construction of any mosque in neighborhood would be a threat (as in TN).

IMO they should just lie low till the elections are over and then construct and finish the project before 2012 elections roll in.

Unless Donald buys it. He is against the building so i think he would just buy it and hang on to it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

it seems some our interlocutors are determined to deny that "radical Muslims" are not just a very small minority of persons but rather are the entirety of Islam ...

They may be a small minority, but even at 5% that's a ton of people. I agree it is "desperate", but , Hey!, human beings do and believe all sorts of desperate, unreasonable and illogical things. And human beings sometimes even "cut off their nose to spite their face". So, Egads!, Americans are human after all! And, sometimes, believe in seemingly irrational things. Probably, they are blinded by anger.......

 

[Coltsfan]

No one is denying the right to build this Islamic triumphalist structure. Unless you are claiming that criticisms constitute such legal denial.

Right on paper is no good if you can not use it. If a community feels that it is being vilified and threatened, just because of their religion, that right becomes a moot point.

 

[muse]

Tomorrow, US Muslims or US Jews will "ask" Hindus or some other group or religious minority and where will it end, to build elsewhere, backed up with polls - TS, Whatever happened to your position about right wrong, good and bad, how have you come to abandon reason in favor of emotion?

 

[Coltsfan]

Unless Donald buys it. He is against the building so i think he would just buy it and hang on to it.

yeah I heard he is offering 25% over the purchase price.

he is a shrewd businessman, he knows that promoters would have bought it at a lower price and even with the 25% premium he would still make $ when the economy recovers and prices improve.

I dont think he gives a rats's *** about anything else.