Buner falls without a fight

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You know it sounds very naiive on your part to say that we just go aroung hunting Islamists because if they are not offered justice it won't make a difference if it is us holding the guns or them atleast not to the people living on the ground, simply death is not the answer had that been the case Hitler would have overrun the wholde world.

How many of them actually want to 'surrender' and 'face a judicial process'?

Most of them seem perfectly content with blowing themselves up or going on suicidal missions guaranteed to end in their death (Mumbai, Lahore Police Academy) unless confronted with massive incompetence (Sri Lankan Cricket team attack).

 

[muse]

What breeds the appeak of extemist ideology? Why is that this ideology finds the resonance it does in Pakistan of all places? See if you can agree with the learned academician's exposition

What breeds extremism?
Rasul Bakhsh Rais



Some fundamental questions divide Muslim societies today: who should determine what is Islamic or not; does an individual have the right to practice or not practice religion; or should religion be rigidly imposed by the modern state through its coercive institutions?

Religion may provoke controversy in other societies, but there, the issue of the relationship between religion and the state is largely settled. Such societies consider religion to be a matter between an individual and his creator; the state does not regulate the religious lives of citizens. Through experience, these societies have learned that it is better to leave religion out of the affairs of the state, and have realised that otherwise the state would be oppressive and would leave little space for personal freedoms.

The relationship between state and religion has not been a simple issue in Muslim countries. Why?

Societies are polarised to different degrees on the principles that would guide the restructuring of state-society relations in the modern age. The consensus of the medieval period, of two separate realms — of religion and of worldly authority — based on mutual non-interference and the condition that no rule violating Islam would apply, seems to have disappeared.

New ideologies in the early decades of the last century, like communism, fascism and nationalism, stirred a debate as to which ideological stream could best fit Islamic societies. Religious intellectuals and political activists wanted to chart a new course, independent of western ideologies, much like the modern-day line of the Iranian clergy: neither East nor West.

Unfortunately, Islamic societies were divided then, and remain divided along sectarian lines, even if one ignores the cultural and regional aspects of Islamic thought and practices beyond the fundamentals of belief. The troubling question, therefore, is: whose Islam is it going to be? Who is the legitimate authority to interpret it? To what extent is religion a private matter and to what extent will it be transferred to the state?

The debate is not about finding absolute answers. If it were that simple, we would have found the answers by now and would have also achieved a grand Islamic consensus on what constitutes an Islamic political order.

All political orders have some principles or ideological foundations. Therefore, no society can hope to progress if its political order is reduced to a lawless power-grabbing game played by greedy individuals. Constitutional democracy is one such framework that restrains individuals, forcing them to stay within legal bounds.

It is the weakness of constitutionalism and democratic norms, and a general crisis of governance, in Pakistan that has created such great space for Islamist groups. An odious alliance between corrupt bureaucrats and the political class at the district level and the higher echelons of power has caused the collapse of governing institutions.

It is not really class conflicts or mobilisation of the poor by the militants that might cause a shift from traditional power structures to the Taliban order, but the erosion of hope and frustration at the lack of fulfilment of legitimate expectations. The failure of the state in performing its tasks is fuelling questions of legitimacy of the political order.

Once a political order loses its legitimacy, it becomes vulnerable to any force — religious, secular or revolutionary — that promises change. The disillusioned Muslim population of Iran turned to the clergy. Some would argue that the Iranian clergy hijacked the revolution, which comprised many fronts with the clergy being just one of the forces that shaped it.

In Pakistan, it is partly the old unsettled debate about the relationship of Islam with the Pakistani state, but also how the rapacious ruling elites have repeatedly failed to live up to the promise of building a democratic, constitutional state and exercising power within the limits of the law. They have flagrantly violated their end of the social contract, and have thus weakened the system and their own moral authority.

Can the Taliban or similar groups be the alternative to these largely discredited elites?

Some may object to the term ‘discredited’ on the grounds that these leaders have been re-elected and returned to power through the popular vote. True. But that is what alienates sections of society from democratic politics when corrupt politicians escape accountability. Not all of them fall in this disgraceful category, but their dominance clearly gives religious militants a propaganda point, that ‘western type’ democracy has failed Pakistani society.

In fact, the reverse is true. The democratic process did not get enough time and space to gel, and every democratic effort was aborted prematurely.

Extremist ideologies, including militant Islamism, have flourished not under true democracies but in less open, misgoverned societies. Like other ideological brands, Islamists have used religion as an alternative way of organising society and a panacea for all the evils inflicted by traditional elites.

Religious politics is therefore less about piety and more about power and using religious symbolism to question the legitimacy of the traditional ruling classes. Religious values become embedded in one’s life, though in different degrees and practiced in different ways. Those who take a hegemonic view of religion may not accept religious pluralism and term the individual’s search for true faith, if it happens to be different in any manner from established norms, as heretic deviation.

The age of such religious hegemony has long past in almost every part of the world, but not here. A section of the religious right in Pakistan rejects religious pluralism, and does not respect or tolerate the historical diversity of belief within Islam.

The religious and the secular have historically co-existed in all faith streams, more so in modern times with the increasing neutrality of the state. But what is happening in Pakistan is quite the reverse of contemporary political trends elsewhere. It is the political function of religion that needs to be examined closely and rejected as a hegemonic cultural quest.

Religion is embedded in our society, its culture and values system, and is equally a very strong force that shapes social institutions and the general attitudes of people. Religion is not at risk, and does not need to be rescued through the agency of the state; it is the liberties of the citizens and the idea of a free society that are at risk if the hegemonic view of religion replaces pluralism of faith.

Dr Rasul Bakhsh Rais is author of Recovering the Frontier State: War, Ethnicity and State in Afghanistan (Oxford University Press, 2008) and a professor of Political Science at the Lahore University of Management Sciences. He can be reached at rasul@lums.edu.pk

 

[IceCold]

There is no doubt the Army can 'do much' Muse, we both agree on that. We also agree on the fact that the Army is presently disinclined to do so. But what I differ with is your contention that the Army is presently refraining from all out assault because of petty, selfish or malevolent reasons.

While there is no doubt that people like you and I do exist, people who think that terrorists have to be fought no matter what, and our numbers are slowing increasing. The fact of the matter remains that there are not enough of us, thus the government will not condone or direct the Army towards operations that will inevitability mean a serious political and social backlash. And I'm not just referring to the people who live in the terrorist haven regions, but main stream political parties and their supporters.

You say there has never been democracy in Pakistan, well I differ. The Army has been powerful, but that doesn't mean that military leaders have not been forced to go by civilian political assertiveness. The present government will dump all the blame and responsibility on the Army's shoulders and run for it on the first sign of things not working out. There is no 'if' here, its a fact. Anyone who has studied Pakistani political history will know this. So to say that the Army 'decides' everything at the end of the day is not accurate, a lot of factors 'decide' and obviously one of them is domestic public opinion. When the Army came in, it came in riding on the back of public opinion; and that’s also how it went out.

In Musharraf's era the Army got a PR kicking that will take decades to recover, this was Musharraf's greatest failure. He placed not only himself, but more importantly the army, in the line of ideological fire. Everyone from Mullahs to liberals have nothing but contempt for the Army, mainly thanks to all the things Musharraf, who was initially very popular, did in regards to Pakistan's relationship with American, the WoT and 'Enlightened Moderation'. People are still calling for his head on a pole because of Red Mosque, the Judges issue which basically was because some politicized judges were interfering with the government's cohesion in the WoT, summoning Core Commanders and what not for the 'crime' of Red Mosque, etc.

The Army is horrible at PR. They can’t mobilize public opinion and they certainly can’t channel it into a productive median. Thats the job of the politicians and the media, but we all know how that’s working out. Point is that people like you, who should be encouraging the Army and bemoaning the politicians who came with promises of ‘peace’ with terrorists, instead the Army has lost important people like you to the completely opposite, and equally unconstructive polarity. You, similar to many in India and America, are now preaching the Pakistan Army is insincere and involved in an elaborate subterfuge. Brother now you, in your own way, are being sensational and sweeping in your appraisals of the ground situation and in your dismissals of the very genuine and real impediments.

Pakistan can indeed do more in the WoT, but ‘can’ as a term is subject to many variables, one of which is undoubtedly US’s attitude. Pakistan can do more if things change, but that doesn’t mean the US has done enough. Or that they’ve been entirely helpful and productive. We need a balanced and pragmatic approach based on ground realties, otherwise we’re just part of the chaotic and self-loathing popular opinion in Pakistan that lead us to this position in the first place. The terrorists will be defeated through constructive and innovative Pakistani dogma and stands; not American and not Indian...but Pakistani. Tell people they are going to die unless they struggle, they'll argue and won't do it but if you tell them there is something in it for them...something more than mere survival, then they'll have something to look forward to and focus on. Something they can claim to be their own, a proud stand Pakistanis have lacked all too long. It's convenient and tempting to slip into the blaming, self-despising physiological merry-go-round our rivals have prepared for our people. We need to come out of this if we hope to make real solutions.

Well said Kasrkin, hats off to you man!

 

[wtf]

DAWN.COM | NWFP | Buner falls to Swat Taliban

Taliban militants from Swat took control of Buner on Tuesday and started patrolling bazaars, villages and towns in the district.

The militants, who had sneaked into Gokand valley of Buner on April 4, were reported to have been on a looting spree for the past five days.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Editorial: Why shouldn’t the world be worried?
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani was on TV Monday brushing aside American and global concerns about the Nizam-e Adl Regulation (NAR) in Swat. Referring to US envoy Richard Holbrooke’s statement of concern over the Swat surrender, he said, “He does not need to worry too much about it. This is our country. We know the ground realities better than him. We know much better what kind of strategy should be evolved”. Regarding the declarations of Sufi Muhammad about Pakistan’s superior judiciary and democracy in general, he reserved comment because he felt the Sufi was merely expressing his “personal opinion”.

The Chief Minister NWFP, Ameer Haider Khan Hoti, issued an equally unrealistic statement saying his government “will take strict action against those who want to establish a parallel government in the province”. He said the situation in Swat was returning to normal and he was trying to implement the NAR at the earliest. He wants to resolve the Taliban takeover in Dir and Buner through talks, but he will not allow anyone to challenge his writ. In both cases, there is evidence that belies his assertions. There is no way Pakistan can prevent the world from worrying about what happens inside Pakistan; there is also no way the NWFP government can prevent the rest of Pakistan from worrying about the fallout from Malakand division.

We are long past getting anyone to admit that our problems are our “internal affair”. The terrorists who attack and kill us are also vowing to kill other people in other countries in the West. Since they have done it before while operating from our soil, it would be stupid on the part of Europe and the US to ignore these threats. And if Pakistan succumbs to the terrorists on its own soil, it should know that it is also putting the world at peril. And the world has every right to worry when the decisions taken by the Gilani government in Swat are also being criticised within Pakistan. One must also say here that the world must worry especially if our politicians continue to issue head-buried-in-sand statements like “it is not our war”. Of course, if we disavow this war, then we can’t logically disallow the world from fighting it.

Succumbing to “talks” when one is taking a drubbing will not do. And if we cannot stand up and fight then we must let the world step in and do what has to be done, for its own sake if not for ours. From recent record, it is no longer true to say that we know what strategies to deploy. It is no longer useful to keep insisting that the only strategy viable for Pakistan is an anti-India policy “because India is funding the terrorists to kill Pakistanis”. It is unconvincing because no internationally acceptable proof is forthcoming and, besides, it is much less convincing than the argument in favour of normalising relations with India to end the tit-for-tat attacks on each other. Here again, India gets the upper hand because unlike Pakistan it doesn’t use its “non state actors”.

Both the mainstream parties, the PPP and the PMLN, followed the policy of normalisation with India but were pulled down, and this was done not because their India policy was unpopular. Speaking at a ceremony for the launching of the second edition of the Jinnah Anthology in Karachi, Air Marshal (retd) Asghar Khan said: “India has not been hostile towards Pakistan unless provoked or until we created such conditions, as we did in 1971 in East Pakistan, for India to interfere militarily”. A report in Dawn of April 14 and the deposition of Ajmal Kasab before a court in Mumbai actually point to a continuation of this “revisionist” policy. In short, one is inclined to say that President Asif Zardari is more realistic on the question of both Swat and India than the prime minister.

Leaving all polemic aside, what if Plan A in Swat is not going to work? Only a halfwit will bet that the Taliban will not use the new law in Swat to their advantage and the people of Swat will go into vassalage simply to be spared execution. Plan B is nothing but confronting the terrorists, not alone, but with the help of the world and the help of our own people and media. *

 

[waraich66]

Water reached at boiling point.GOP should feel the heat and accept demand of majority people of NWFP and implement shariah.Shariah law is also part of our constitution.
I think in this way jehadi mullahism can be rooted out.

 

[Anonyomous Man]

Taliban move to expand control in NW Pakistan.

Taliban militants in Pakistan's Swat valley have moved into another district in a bid to broaden their control despite a peace deal, officials said Wednesday.

Hundreds of armed Taliban from the scenic northwestern valley have entered Buner district, only 110 kilometres (68 miles) from the capital Islamabad.

They have set up checkpoints, occupied mosques and ransacked the offices of non-governmental organisations, a local administration official said.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari earlier this month approved a deal to establish sharia courts in Malakand, a district of around three million people in the North West Frontier Province that includes the Swat valley.

Despite that accord, which was designed to end bitter unrest, the Taliban have not yet disarmed and are trying to exert control over the area.

"The Taliban who have arrived from Swat have increased patrolling, banned music in public transport and rampaged (through the) offices of NGOs and taken their vehicles," local government official Rashid Khan said.

"Taliban militants armed with rocket launchers were manning the checkpoints and operating from local mosques," he said, added that a report had been filed at the local police station against "unknown militants."

The central government lost control in Swat, a former ski resort and jewel in the crown of Pakistani tourism, after a violent two-year militant campaign to enforce strict Taliban-style sharia law.

Militants beheaded opponents, bombed schools and fought government forces, prompting tens of thousands of people to flee.

North West Frontier Province's information minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain said the government had fulfilled its promises in Malakand, "and the Taliban must lay down their arms."

"The militants' activities in Buner are in violation of the peace accord. After the agreement there is no justification to take up arms," Hussain said, although he played down reports the Taliban had taken over the district.

"The government writ in Buner is intact," he said, adding that government officials had not abandoned the area.

Meanwhile, in neighbouring Dir district, a senior administration official was kidnapped by "unknown" people, according to another official.

AFP: 'Taliban move to expand control in NW Pakistan'

 

[waraich66]

Here's the latest as of Monday morning and it isn't pretty. I see wtf is on top of it.

The DCO, Jawed Ahmed, is an idiot-

"We are in constant touch with the leadership of Taliban in Swat and the situation will return to normal in next few days,’ said the Buner district coordination officer Jawed Ahmad.

The DCO told Dawn by phone: ‘We have adopted policy of restraint as a slight mistake could derail the entire peace initiative launched by the government. These Taliban are peaceful and have till now not harmed any individual in the district.’

He dispelled the impression of any recruitment by the Swat Taliban in Buner stating that they had not received any such report. He added that the local people had entered into an agreement with the Taliban in Swat through a jirga.

Peaceful!? That's his dead officer in the photo with the story. Fool. If this is your leadership cut the best damned deal you can, brace for the new dark ages, or get the hell out of the nation while you can.

Stunning "head in sand" mentality. Tell me this guy isn't scared out of his shorts? Meanwhile, there's a real pied piper feel to this whole thing. The kiddies like the wild guys with guns telling the authorities to fcuk off. Seem that the militants have a devoted following already.

S2,

You are losing your nerves, these DCO's well aware of exact satuation of area then you sitting in AC room drinking Coffee

Let people of Pakistan decide their future , these Pushtoons have very strong belive on their traditions .The satuation in NWFP should be tackled with dialogue not with bullet.


If these all tribes stood against Pakistan no one could resist them uptill Karachi ,they are now settled all over the pakistan after Afghan Russian War.

US and GOP should stop Drone attackes in FATA area and should make these tribes their friend if they really want any success.

 

[wtf]

S2,

You are losing your nerves, these DCO's well aware of exact satuation of area then you sitting in AC room drinking Coffee

Hmm.. not just him who is worried I think.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/world/asia/23buner.html?hp

.......“Buner is a gateway to a major Pakistani city, Mardan. They take over Buner, then they roll into Mardan and that’s the end of the game,” a senior law enforcement official in the North West Frontier Province said.....

or
DAWN.COM | World | Pakistan giving up to militants: Hillary

In a testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Mrs Clinton warned that nuclear-armed Pakistan was becoming a ‘mortal threat’ to the world.


--------------------------
Heck, Buner is what 60-70 miles from Islamabad ? If Agra or Chandigarh was not under Indian control, I'd be worried too.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

Interesting ..

Taliban will stay in Buner until Nizam-e-Adl implementation: TTP
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: The Taliban have said they will not leave Buner until the Nizam-e-Adl was implemented in Malakand division. “The Taliban will leave Buner after enforcement of the Nizam-e-Adl,” Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Muslim Khan told AFP from Swat. “The government writ is not being challenged” in Buner and the Taliban were not creating problems for the administration there, he said. “We went into Buner because the administration there had totally failed to provide justice to the people and resolve the problems being faced by them,” he said. afp


OK so where are they going to go after they have full control of Buner??
They will never lay down they arms and go home..

 

[S-2]

"OK so where are they going to go after they have full control of Buner??"

Well first let's be sure to understand that implementing sharia will be defined by THESE lads, not the state. Once they've tuned the laws to their advantage, they don't wish to stay. It's on to the next job. Their newly recruited homies will hold down the fort in the freshly conquered lands like Buner.

All hail the conquering heros.

 

[zalmay]

"OK so where are they going to go after they have full control of Buner??"

.

swabi after buner comes swabi and if you have swabi you have nwfp its a very stragic location if you want to move to NOSHERA ,MARDAN ,CHARASSADA AND PESHAWAR or beyond
you have to pass through swabi
if you have SWABI you have NWFP

thats where they will move

 

[EyelessInGaza]

..........
The DCO, Jawed Ahmed, is an idiot-

"We are in constant touch with the leadership of Taliban in Swat and the situation will return to normal in next few days,’ said the Buner district coordination officer Jawed Ahmad.

The DCO told Dawn by phone: ‘We have adopted policy of restraint as a slight mistake could derail the entire peace initiative launched by the government. These Taliban are peaceful and have till now not harmed any individual in the district.’

He dispelled the impression of any recruitment by the Swat Taliban in Buner stating that they had not received any such report. He added that the local people had entered into an agreement with the Taliban in Swat through a jirga.

Peaceful!? That's his dead officer in the photo with the story. Fool. If this is your leadership cut the best damned deal you can, brace for the new dark ages, or get the hell out of the nation while you can.

Stunning "head in sand" mentality. Tell me this guy isn't scared out of his shorts? Meanwhile, there's a real pied piper feel to this whole thing. The kiddies like the wild guys with guns telling the authorities to fcuk off. Seem that the militants have a devoted following already.

He's not an idiot, no sah, not this lad.

I recommend you read the second page of this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/world/asia/23buner.html?hp

 

[wtf]

He's not an idiot, no sah, not this lad.

I recommend you read the second page of this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/world/asia/23buner.html?hp

I'll quote that...
The militants were helped by the actions of the commissioner of Malakand, Javed Mohammad, who is also the senior official in Swat and who was appointed on the recommendation of the Taliban, the senior law enforcement official said.

 

[Hellfire]

another one

Taliban impose Shariah, encircling Islamabad - Kavkazcenter.com